highaltitude.log.20080102

[00:00] <fnoble> no idea
[00:00] <fnoble> henry still hsnt contacted me
[00:01] <fnoble> although i told sal to deliver him a slap round the face
[00:01] <fnoble> :)
[00:07] <edmoore> the kd7mlo site is lovely
[00:07] <edmoore> lots of sensible stuff they've got there
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[00:30] <fnoble> interesting to see he is using a hot wire cut down
[01:03] <fnoble> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7049002.stm
[01:03] <fnoble> "Do you fancy building you own Sputnik? We've given you an idea how easy it could be, now the Magazine wants to hear from willing volunteers. We can even come and film you putting it together. We'll also investigate how to get your Sputniks launched."
[01:11] <edmoore> Saw that
[01:11] <edmoore> oooooh
[01:11] <edmoore> good film on bbc1
[01:11] <edmoore> just about to start
[01:11] <edmoore> worth staying up late
[01:12] <edmoore> yeah i'm not completely convinced by nichrome
[01:12] <edmoore> I have this fear that on a roughly, long flight it'd work harden and then fail
[01:12] <edmoore> rough*
[01:12] <edmoore> it's not a fear backed up by empirical data, though
[01:13] <fnoble> yeah, what do you think to the sputnik thing?
[01:13] <fnoble> could be a way to raise our profile a bit
[01:13] <edmoore> well it's just the most basic of basic trackers
[01:13] <fnoble> indeed
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[12:15] <Laurenceb> hi all
[12:15] <edmoore> hi lb
[12:15] Action: Laurenceb has been reading about quaternions
[12:15] <Laurenceb> I think I actually undertand it
[12:15] <Laurenceb> well... sort of
[12:16] <Laurenceb> I think I've worked out how to make a system with the 5DOF IMU from sparkfun and an additional gyro
[12:17] <Laurenceb> to give a 6 component state vector, when combined with wind compensated gps heading information
[12:17] <Laurenceb> but it would involve a sh*t load of maths
[12:18] <Laurenceb> the really annoying thing is that kalamn filters need inverse matrices
[12:24] <Laurenceb> thermopiles are so much easier
[13:01] <edmoore> than what?
[13:18] <Laurenceb> accels and gyros
[13:21] <Laurenceb> ok, this is what I'm thinking: rather than use quaternions everywhere, it might be a bit better to use a three component vector, with the lenght=degree of rotation about the unit vector
[13:21] <Laurenceb> this could represent attitude, and would live in a radius pi sphere centered on the origin
[13:23] <Laurenceb> you can convert this to a quaternion, and use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternions_and_spatial_rotation#Quaternions_versus_other_representations_of_rotations
[13:24] <Laurenceb> technique to convert accel, magnetometer and gyro readings from the vehicle frame into NED frame
[13:25] <Laurenceb> the three gyros then go straight into the kalman as a rate input
[13:26] <Laurenceb> the cross product of the accel and magnetometer terms with their expected values gives two error terms
[13:28] <Laurenceb> the only problem is, you should use matrixes for preprocessing the sensor values to do the proper kalman error analysis, and that involves a couple of extra trig function calls
[13:30] <Laurenceb> as can be seen from the second pseudocode example on wikipedia
[13:35] <Laurenceb> a cool thing you can do with planes is put a thrust vector throught the quaternion to put it in NED space, then use it to correct the accel vector, reducing effects from e.g. centripetal accel in turns
[13:35] <Laurenceb> sorry to rant :P
[13:36] <edmoore> it's ok, just digesting the wikipedia pag
[13:38] <Laurenceb> I find it all _very_ hard to understand... I've been drawing a flow diagram to help
[13:38] <Laurenceb> might make a neat copy and put it on the wiki at some point
[13:38] <edmoore> I think it's one of those things that requires lots of playing until it clicks
[13:38] <edmoore> it's all algebra to me at the moment
[13:39] <Laurenceb> lol
[13:39] <Laurenceb> another interesting thing I just worked out, if you have accels alone, you dont know yaw
[13:39] <Laurenceb> but you can deal with this with your covariance matrix
[13:40] <edmoore> how?
[13:40] <Laurenceb> stick in infinity :P
[13:40] <Laurenceb> in real life something large would be needed
[13:41] <edmoore> laurence I think we have different definitions of 'dealing' with something :p
[13:41] <Laurenceb> hehe, your just saying to the kalman "we dont have a clue"
[13:41] <Laurenceb> but you magnetometer does, so your saved
[13:41] <edmoore> it it says back 'neither do i then'
[13:42] <edmoore> well...
[13:42] <edmoore> i think you'd need a calendar to measure the convergence time
[13:42] <Laurenceb> no, it just wont trust the accels for yaw determination
[13:43] <Laurenceb> yaw is perhaps a poor choice of terminology, its not as simple as euler angles...
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[13:44] <Laurenceb> for something easy like an plane, you could just use gps heading
[13:44] <edmoore> I love planes.
[13:44] <edmoore> nothing exciting ever happens to them
[13:45] <Laurenceb> for a quad rotor you could forget about it, and use the rate term for yaw stability
[13:46] <Laurenceb> so its possible to make a quad rotor with sparkfuns 5 DOF IMU and one extra gyro
[13:47] <Laurenceb> the weird thing is, I think the PID loops could just take the relevant components from the attitude vector, treating them like roll pitch and yaw... I'm confused
[13:49] <Laurenceb> its almost like a commutative definition of euler angles...
[13:49] <edmoore> laurence don't
[13:49] <Laurenceb> I'm getting mathsy
[13:50] <Laurenceb> lol this is not going to run on an AVR
[13:50] <edmoore> :p
[13:50] <edmoore> hence mr ARM
[13:50] <Laurenceb> indeed
[13:50] <edmoore> If the lpc3180 wasn't it a bga320 package, i'd be using it
[13:51] <edmoore> it has a hardware FPU
[13:51] <Laurenceb> nice
[13:51] <edmoore> the only arm9 currently to o so
[13:51] <edmoore> afaik
[13:52] <Laurenceb> what's linux like for real time control?
[13:53] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking of having a play with the ngm100 board, but timers and things under linux is a mystery to me...
[13:53] <Laurenceb> ngw*
[13:54] <edmoore> laurenceb
[13:54] <edmoore> it's very much not designed for it
[13:54] <Laurenceb> yes as I thought
[13:55] <edmoore> there is a real time kernal patch, which they have to use for the distro that runs cnc packages, for example
[13:55] <edmoore> but basically it's not built for it
[14:00] <Laurenceb> ic
[14:00] <Laurenceb> this is cool: http://www.mil.ufl.edu/~chrisarnold/components/microcontrollerBoard/AVR/avrlib/docs/html/mmc_8c.html
[14:00] <Laurenceb> nice and easy just mmcWrite()
[14:03] <Laurenceb> oh b*gger http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7167073.stm
[14:04] <Laurenceb> I've got to get to oxford this evening :(
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[14:18] <neontube> afternoon
[14:20] <neontube> how are we all doing?
[14:21] <edmoore> not bad thanks
[14:21] <edmoore> you?
[14:21] <neontube> yer happier now i'm in out of the cold
[14:24] <neontube> just ordered some radio modules to have a play with
[14:26] <Laurenceb> omfg: http://elm-chan.org/docs/avr/dma.jpeg
[14:26] <neontube> :o
[14:27] <neontube> i've done some small soldering work in the past... but nothing that detailed
[14:27] <neontube> they look like the wires should be shorting:s
[14:27] <neontube> it creates a cool picture though :D
[14:28] <Laurenceb> http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html
[14:30] <neontube> that looks like some fun stuff to use...
[14:30] <neontube> needs a very steady hand though
[14:31] <edmoore> yeah enamled stuff is awesome
[14:32] <edmoore> that is very impressive :)
[14:40] <Laurenceb> lol "avrdude:Yikes!!! invalid signiture"
[14:43] <neontube> pardon ?
[14:44] <Laurenceb> its an avr programmer
[14:44] <Laurenceb> thats the error message it just gave :P
[14:45] <neontube> lol
[14:46] <Laurenceb> I'm still playing about with FATfs, but its not going to work
[14:46] <Laurenceb> theres not enough ram, the filesystem only uses about 600 bytes, but then theres all the other things like the SD card driver and stack
[14:47] <neontube> is that just a problem with the avr you are using ?
[14:47] <Laurenceb> it only has 1K ram
[14:48] <Laurenceb> do you know much about c ?
[14:49] <neontube> been 5 years since i've done any i'm affraid
[14:49] <neontube> and then i wasn't that good at it
[14:50] <neontube> i scraped the 40% pass in that module :)
[14:55] <neontube> hahahaha i can here next doors 2 year old screaming cus she is scared of my satalite dish
[14:55] <neontube> (its a motorised one and i've just repositioned it)
[14:56] <Laurenceb> rofl
[14:56] <neontube> such a soft kid
[15:03] <Laurenceb> so what did you study at uni?
[15:06] <Laurenceb> electronics?
[15:06] <neontube> my undergrad degree yer
[15:07] <neontube> did it at stafford
[15:07] <neontube> microelectronics and computer engineering
[15:07] <neontube> (basicaly electronics, plus one module about distributed computing and another about semiconductor manufacture
[15:10] <edmoore> lb, you want more ram? the stm32 range will have external interfaces added this year
[15:10] <edmoore> so how about 64MB?
[15:11] <Laurenceb> :D
[15:13] <neontube> u lot need to stop using pcs and pull out an old BBC micro or spectrum
[15:13] <neontube> 32k/48k was plenty !
[15:14] <edmoore> crazy realy
[15:14] <edmoore> I often find myself chastising myself
[15:14] <edmoore> 'of course this chip can do it, nasa did it with 1/100th the power. get on with it'
[15:15] <neontube> yup
[15:16] <neontube> its all down to bloat-ware, poorly written protocols and just dam laziness :P
[15:16] Action: Laurenceb has an old bbc
[15:16] <neontube> i work with a guy that used to repair BBCs for schools
[15:17] <neontube> might have to give him my old one and see if he can breath life into it
[15:17] <neontube> also got a brand new one in a box in the loft
[15:17] <neontube> cus u never know when u might need it
[15:17] <neontube> ;)
[15:18] <Laurenceb> edmoore: is there a coplicated initialisation step when you want to use a mmc card?
[15:18] <Laurenceb> or can you start addressing sectors right away?
[15:19] <neontube> http://picaxe.orcon.net.nz/yagi433.jpg
[15:19] <neontube> off to the garage to find some welding rod :p bbl
[15:21] <edmoore> http://document.sharpsma.com/files/LH79520_AN_multimediacar.pdf
[15:23] <Laurenceb> thanx
[15:24] <Laurenceb> arggg its so complicated...
[15:24] <Laurenceb> I might as well use FAT as well, the procyon code isnt enough by itself
[15:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.mil.ufl.edu/~chrisarnold/components/microcontrollerBoard/AVR/avrlib/docs/html/mmc_8c-source.html
[15:27] <Laurenceb> will the mmcReset function do the trick? I think actually that calling it sets up the card correctly
[15:40] <Laurenceb> I'll probably get one of these: http://www.memorybits.co.uk/shop/mmc/integral-256mb-mmcplus-card-cammmcplus256xx/5845
[15:49] <Laurenceb> hmmm what have we here... http://www.captain.at/electronic-atmega-mmc.php
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[16:18] <jcoxon> hey all
[16:18] <jcoxon> just popping in to say that they UTARC guys are launching their trans-atlantic balloon on 4th Jan at 03.00GMT
[16:19] <jcoxon> they reckon there is a small chance it'll make it across
[16:23] <edmoore> good luck t'them
[16:23] <edmoore> how long would it take?
[16:23] <edmoore> 2-3 days?
[16:24] <jcoxon> 48 hours apparently
[16:24] <jcoxon> if you go to their website you can sign up for alerts
[16:24] <jcoxon> its quite call e.g. you can choose to get alerts when the altitude drops below x or the temp = x
[16:24] <jcoxon> call -> cool
[16:25] <jcoxon> edmoore, am in hte apple store
[16:25] <edmoore> oooooh
[16:25] <edmoore> wyzat?
[16:25] <jcoxon> waiting for my gf
[16:26] <jcoxon> she is late like usual
[16:26] <jcoxon> arrghhh 7% battery left
[16:27] <edmoore> borrow a power supply
[16:27] <jcoxon> oooo old school
[16:27] <edmoore> or carefully swap a white macbook for yours
[16:27] <jcoxon> i'll go and ask
[16:27] <jcoxon> haha
[16:27] <jcoxon> i have a green apple
[16:27] <jcoxon> they might notice
[16:27] <jcoxon> bbl
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[16:28] <Laurenceb> apple store? wherzat?
[16:28] <edmoore> regent street
[16:28] <Laurenceb> cool
[16:29] <Laurenceb> the mmc code seems to work :D
[16:29] <Laurenceb> now I just need an mmc card
[16:29] <Laurenceb> captins universe is a kind of cool site
[16:29] <edmoore> what's the link?
[16:30] <Laurenceb> http://www.captain.at/electronic-atmega-mmc.php
[17:41] <Laurenceb> this is a good site as well http://www.peetwo.dk/ucsoftware.html
[17:54] <neontube> MC68HC11... thats what i used at uni
[17:55] <neontube> nice chip... shame the lecturer didn't know what to do with it
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[18:32] <natrium> hello all
[18:32] <natrium> Laurenceb, any progress with your mem card?
[18:36] <Laurenceb> well I'll need a card :)
[18:36] <Laurenceb> it looks like I can get direct accesss of an mmc card working fairly easily
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[18:37] <Laurenceb> and the filesystem that link points to looks promising
[18:38] <Laurenceb> but I'll be working down in oxford tomorrow, (hopefully)
[18:38] <natrium> yeah, you don't need an FS
[18:38] <natrium> just write the sectors directly
[18:38] <Laurenceb> can you write sector 0 ?
[18:38] <natrium> you could use first sector to keep track of log size and other things
[18:38] <natrium> of course
[18:38] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:38] <natrium> then just read the entire card with dd
[18:38] <Laurenceb> so it starts at 0 then goes up to the full size
[18:38] <natrium> or use a hex editor if you're fond on GUIs :)
[18:38] <Laurenceb> dd?
[18:39] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[18:39] <natrium> what OS are you running?
[18:39] <natrium> linux and macos have it
[18:39] <Laurenceb> winXP
[18:39] <natrium> dd for windows --> http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/rawwrite/index.htm
[18:39] <Laurenceb> thanx
[18:40] <Laurenceb> this mmc code from captains universe is 1KB :D
[18:40] <natrium> dd if=\\path\to\your\sd\drive of=logfile.txt bs=1k count=1440
[18:40] <natrium> something like that would do
[18:40] <Laurenceb> ok
[18:41] <Laurenceb> gtg cya, hopefully I can catch a train... theres loads of delays
[18:41] <natrium> well, if you use sector 0 for settings, you'd need to write a tool to take care of that
[18:41] <natrium> later
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[20:07] <Laurenceb> hi all
[20:07] <Laurenceb> so much for that, my train was cancelled
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[20:17] <msweeney> evening?
[20:20] <edmoore> yo
[20:21] <msweeney> Found out how much radiometrix NTX2 modules are
[20:22] <msweeney> 16ukp
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[20:24] <Laurenceb> really?
[20:24] <Laurenceb> nice, did you email them?
[20:24] <msweeney> yurp
[20:24] <Laurenceb> and they are happy to sell you individual modules?
[20:24] <msweeney> yep
[20:24] <Laurenceb> cool, I'll have to try
[20:25] <Laurenceb> thats inc vat?
[20:25] <msweeney> 26.80 for the rx modules
[20:25] <msweeney> yep, inc vat
[20:25] <Laurenceb> cool
[20:25] Action: Laurenceb needs a SSB rx
[20:25] <msweeney> these prices are for 1-99 units, shipping is 5ukp via special delivery
[20:25] <Laurenceb> ok
[20:26] <Laurenceb> SSB recievers are rather more
[20:26] <msweeney> I can imagine
[20:27] <msweeney> why do you need the SSB?
[20:28] <Laurenceb> to pick up the NTX2
[20:28] <Laurenceb> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NETSET-PR0-2032-HOMEBASE-200-CHANNEL-SCANNER_W0QQitemZ200188864302QQihZ010QQcategoryZ40979QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:29] <msweeney> yeah I realise that part, but why do you need an SSB rather than any other type of rx? (i'm assuming there are other types...)
[20:30] <Laurenceb> its very sensitive, and gives a audio frequency shift output for truetty
[20:32] <msweeney> looks fairly heavy duty, is it easy to run in the field...so to speak?
[20:36] <Laurenceb> fairly easy, you have to make adjustments
[20:38] <msweeney> so, if I wanted to get my data into my laptop...would I have to use an SSB or could I use something else like a handheld scanner or receiver?
[20:39] <msweeney> or could I plug a microphone in, process the dit dots from the scanner speaker?
[20:41] <edmoore> ssb is a particularly efficient type of AM
[20:41] <Laurenceb> well you could use an fm scanner
[20:41] <edmoore> many scanner/receivers have modes
[20:41] <edmoore> ssb being one of them
[20:41] <Laurenceb> but as edmoore says, SSB maps RF straight into audio frequency
[20:41] <edmoore> but it depends on what's being transmitted
[20:41] <Laurenceb> with is extremely efficient
[20:44] <msweeney> so if I encoded my positions in a crude morse code style, what would be the easiest way to get them into my laptop and decode them?
[20:45] <Laurenceb> you could do that with FM and some modulation on the payload
[20:46] <Laurenceb> but on your laptop you'd need some morse software
[20:46] <Laurenceb> there are a few programs out there
[20:46] <msweeney> ok, assuming that I've safely modulated them and am transmitting over FM, how do I get it into my laptop to then be decoded by the software
[20:46] <msweeney> ?
[20:48] <Laurenceb> line in
[20:48] <Laurenceb> but we have never tried anything like this
[20:49] <edmoore> you do need the receiber
[20:49] <edmoore> receiver
[20:49] <Laurenceb> we're always used a SSB reciever or FM with a TNC onboard I think
[20:49] <Laurenceb> we have*
[20:49] <edmoore> we put the receiver into the laptop's line-in with an audio cable
[20:49] <msweeney> ah right, that what I was looking before
[20:49] <edmoore> and use some off the shelf software (truetty) to decode the rtty
[20:50] <Laurenceb> te FM with TNC was only flown once by nova IIRC
[20:50] <msweeney> TNC?
[20:51] <edmoore> don't worry. needlessly complicating things
[20:51] <msweeney> and is it easy to encode numbers as RTTY?
[20:51] <edmoore> terminal node controller, tho
[20:51] <edmoore> just the same as encoding any other characteer
[20:51] <Laurenceb> msweeney: its basically audio modulated serial
[20:51] <Laurenceb> well audio frequency modulated
[20:52] Action: msweeney isn't familiar with serial encodings really, you'll have to excuse his ignorance
[20:52] <msweeney> ok, is it easy to encode any character with rtty?
[20:52] <edmoore> no problem
[20:52] <edmoore> yes
[20:53] <Laurenceb> with a uC, yes
[20:53] <msweeney> I'll prob be using an arduino
[20:53] <edmoore> i mean, it's just a code. they're all the same to a microcontroller
[20:53] <Laurenceb> well we usually borrow one of rocketboys modules
[20:53] <edmoore> just have a lookup table which turns characters into a pattern of bleeps
[20:53] <msweeney> how would you do it? With the morse style I was planning on having a lookup table
[20:54] <msweeney> ah, so it's just the same?
[20:54] <edmoore> same with rtty
[20:54] <edmoore> yep
[20:54] <edmoore> it's jsut a slightly different type of encoding, more optimised for computers
[20:54] <Laurenceb> brb
[20:54] <edmoore> morse was designed for humans
[20:54] <msweeney> excellent. Can you point me at a list of the encodings perhaps?
[20:54] <edmoore> there are lots about, but i'll have a dig
[20:54] <msweeney> as in A= , B = , etc
[20:56] <Laurenceb> its basically ascii
[20:56] <Laurenceb> usually
[20:58] <Laurenceb> for rtty that is
[20:59] <msweeney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA2_code ?
[21:00] <msweeney> right - I'm off to watch telly. Back in an hour
[21:01] <edmoore> 3miab?
[21:01] <edmoore> me too
[21:02] <edmoore> it's not *really* ascii
[21:02] <edmoore> it's 5 bit
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[21:03] <Laurenceb> hey mc-
[21:08] <mc-> hey lb
[21:08] <mc-> just got a thermistor working with a pic
[21:09] <Laurenceb> cool
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[21:11] <Laurenceb> hello natrium42
[21:11] <natrium42> hi
[21:11] <Laurenceb> my train was cancelled :(
[21:12] <natrium42> ah :(
[21:12] <Laurenceb> I'm stuck at home till tomorrow
[21:12] <Laurenceb> I'm looking for a SSB scanner, but they are really expensive
[21:13] <natrium42> how much?
[21:13] <edmoore> £100ish for a decent one
[21:13] <edmoore> sensitivity is the key
[21:13] <Laurenceb> not bad
[21:13] <edmoore> the cheapo one nova had till we got a propper one was useless
[21:14] <Laurenceb> I could afford that
[21:14] <natrium42> edmoore, that's not too bad
[21:14] <edmoore> we now have one of the yaesu ones that steve's always used
[21:14] <Laurenceb> whereabouts?
[21:14] <edmoore> got it off steve :p
[21:14] <edmoore> 2nd hand
[21:14] <Laurenceb> :D
[21:14] <edmoore> these are 2nd hand prices, i hasten to add
[21:14] <Laurenceb> all the good SSB ones I can find online are £200 or so
[21:15] <edmoore> james found one for £150 2nd hand (same model) which steve thought was a bit steep
[21:15] <Laurenceb> maybe admag is worth a try
[21:16] <natrium42> !google 150 gbp in money
[21:16] <edmoore> If you want one, might be worth asking steve to keep an eye out
[21:16] <natrium42> 150 British pounds = 299.41500 U.S. dollars
[21:16] <edmoore> zeusbot isn't that clever :p
[21:16] <natrium42> hmm
[21:16] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:16] <natrium42> i did it in a diff channel
[21:16] <Laurenceb> yes some of the bots are cool
[21:16] <natrium42> [16:16] <@natrium42> !google 150 gbp in money
[21:16] <natrium42> [16:16] <@Sintia> 150 British pounds = 299.41500 U.S. dollars
[21:17] <edmoore> it's very easy at
[21:17] <edmoore> just take the gbp and multiply it by 189045 to get dollars
[21:17] <natrium42> haha
[21:17] <Laurenceb> hmm but the bot has to interpret the google page
[21:17] <natrium42> you guys should switch to EUR
[21:17] <Laurenceb> thats quite smart
[21:17] <natrium42> too many currencies :P
[21:18] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:23] <Laurenceb> hmmm I need to make something
[21:24] <Laurenceb> I'm getting bored through lack of projects...
[21:24] <Laurenceb> maybe a maplins helicopter with compass module, rate gyro and an avr
[21:25] <edmoore> or a working rogallo....
[21:25] Action: edmoore ducks
[21:25] <natrium42> Laurenceb, i want to make a balancing bot with that card
[21:25] <Laurenceb> edmoore: it does work
[21:26] <edmoore> ah yes. I remember seeing the video of it smoothly gliding back to the landing site for a perfect landing
[21:26] Action: edmoore ducks a bit lower
[21:27] <Laurenceb> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:ukhas_glider_project:rogallonowind.png?cache=cache
[21:27] <edmoore> you're being a bit mathmo...
[21:27] <edmoore> mathomos think that something is done if they get to the point that they could go on to get a solution
[21:28] <edmoore> without actually arriving at the solution
[21:28] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:29] <Laurenceb> thats what physics is about
[21:30] <Laurenceb> basically I want something small and practical for a bit of uav fun
[21:30] <edmoore> that quad did look fun
[21:30] <edmoore> or maybe one of those micro mavs
[21:30] <Laurenceb> rogallos are big and require trekking up a hill
[21:30] <edmoore> a micro powered rogallo, maybe
[21:30] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:30] <Laurenceb> small rogallos are very nice
[21:31] <Laurenceb> I made some new 1meter spar lenght wings for the rogallo, so it will be more easy to control, and fly at about 15mph, not 40
[21:32] <Laurenceb> but its still a bit impractical as an experimental vehicle
[21:32] <Laurenceb> e.g I cant just stick it in my bag and take it down to oxford with me, it takes up half a car boot
[21:34] <Laurenceb> natrium42: yes thanx for the card :D
[21:34] <natrium42> np :)
[21:34] <Laurenceb> maybe a little helicopter...
[21:35] <edmoore> autonomous helis actually are difficult
[21:36] <Laurenceb> but some of the cheap toy ones are quite stable
[21:37] <Laurenceb> natrium42: is there a diagram of the nds card connection on your wiki?
[21:37] <natrium42> i can send it to you
[21:38] <natrium42> what's your email again?
[21:38] <Laurenceb> laurence.blaxter@st-hughs.ox.ac.uk
[21:38] <natrium42> i did a write up for another guy
[21:38] <natrium42> kay
[21:39] <natrium42> sent
[21:41] <Laurenceb> thanx
[21:41] <Laurenceb> so you have to enable it before use?
[21:43] <natrium42> yes
[21:43] <natrium42> it's just a command to start conversion
[21:44] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:44] <natrium42> then you can just read the values at any time
[21:44] <natrium42> don't really need to disable unless you want to go into power save mode
[21:44] <Laurenceb> what about the spi bus? its 3.3v, what sort of chock speed, and what about phase?
[21:44] <natrium42> 3.3V
[21:44] <Laurenceb> clock speed*
[21:45] <natrium42> it should do at least 4MHz
[21:45] <Laurenceb> right
[21:45] <natrium42> not sure about phase
[21:45] <natrium42> i think it's on rising
[21:45] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:45] <natrium42> by default, all control lines are high
[21:46] <Laurenceb> you mean there are pullups?
[21:46] <natrium42> i mean the logic state from your micro
[21:46] <natrium42> i.e. CS is inverted
[21:46] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:46] <natrium42> so you keep it high when deselected
[21:47] <natrium42> it's the usual
[21:47] <natrium42> nothing funky :)
[21:47] <Laurenceb> but clk and mosi are normal right?
[21:47] <Laurenceb> ok I see
[21:47] <natrium42> yes
[21:47] <Laurenceb> just some standard spi library code, and a mega168 at 3.3v, 13 MHz crystal
[21:48] <Laurenceb> I could stick it on a micro rogallo, but strangely batteries will be the limiting factor
[21:49] <Laurenceb> thats not usual with stuff I build :P
[21:49] <Laurenceb> probably little lipo cells are called for
[21:50] <Laurenceb> I've got a little 8gram blue arrow servo that would do nicely
[21:50] <natrium42> cool
[21:51] <Laurenceb> hmmm I wonder if I could use a single lipo cell, and a low dropout 3.3v regulator, running the servo straight off the cell
[21:54] <natrium42> it can't tolerate 4.2V?
[21:54] <natrium42> the servo that is
[21:55] <neontube> evening all
[21:55] <natrium42> hey natrium42
[21:55] <natrium42> err, neontube
[21:55] <natrium42> stupid tab completion :)
[21:55] <neontube> haha
[21:55] <neontube> me myself and i on tonight then ?
[21:56] <Laurenceb> natrium42: just the low voltage
[21:56] <Laurenceb> it might reduce performance
[21:56] <natrium42> neontube, :P
[21:56] <Laurenceb> but from experience it will probably work
[21:58] <Laurenceb> this looks just the ticket http://www.rapidonline.com/netalogue/specs/82-3008e.pdf
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[21:58] <neontube> oo just found 3 weather satelite recivers
[21:58] <neontube> i've got way to much junk in my loft
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[21:59] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.indoorflyer.co.uk/130mah-cell-117-p.asp
[21:59] <natrium42> tiny
[21:59] <Laurenceb> cheap :D
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[22:00] <Laurenceb> that would power a gps as well :D
[22:00] <natrium42> for 2 hours max :P
[22:00] <natrium42> most likely less
[22:01] <Laurenceb> crazy
[22:01] <Laurenceb> I'd have to make a charger
[22:02] <Laurenceb> but thats not hard, opamp and a fet
[22:02] <natrium42> don't over charge :P
[22:02] <Laurenceb> or micro if its going to be good
[22:02] <natrium42> and limit the charging current to 1C
[22:02] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:03] <natrium42> those things are little hydrogen bombs as you probably know
[22:03] <Laurenceb> hmmm yes chargers are a bit complicated...
[22:04] <natrium42> i'd just get a real charger
[22:04] <Laurenceb> yes
[22:04] <natrium42> lipolys are scary
[22:04] Action: natrium42 has two digital chargers for Li-Poly
[22:05] <neontube> are mobile phone batteries not a good source ?
[22:06] <natrium42> those are usually lipoly/li-ion
[22:06] <Laurenceb> they are unregulated surely
[22:06] <Laurenceb> http://www.indoorflyer.co.uk/single-cell-charger-20---210ma-217-p.asp
[22:06] <Laurenceb> looks very basic...
[22:08] <Laurenceb> its based around a voltage regulator
[22:09] <Laurenceb> hmm there must be more than that to it
[22:09] <natrium42> looks good
[22:09] <Laurenceb> still it says it regulates current as well, so thats cool
[22:09] <Laurenceb> and cheap as well :P
[22:10] <Laurenceb> that site is nice
[22:10] <Laurenceb> right gtg, got to be up early 2morrow
[22:10] <Laurenceb> cya
[22:10] <natrium42> later
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[22:15] <neontube> radio modules should be here tommorow :D something to do if it snows
[22:15] <msweeney> ahh, snow
[22:16] <msweeney> if only
[22:16] Action: natrium42 lives in an igloo
[22:16] <neontube> i want it to snow on sunday night, just so i don;t have to go back to work
[22:16] <msweeney> snow in scotland and possibly some inthe southwest according to the beeb
[22:17] <neontube> natrium42: extreme way to save cash on a fridge
[22:17] <edmoore> weather predicts us snow
[22:17] <edmoore> i don't belive it
[22:18] <neontube> i'm up in the peaks... weather is usualy totaly different to what they predict
[22:18] <natrium42> neontube, well, i live in canada so...
[22:18] <natrium42> supposedly we all live in igloos
[22:19] <neontube> lol
[22:19] <neontube> and ride horses and wear red coats?
[22:19] <neontube> (sorry, very bad stereo type)
[22:19] <natrium42> stereo types ftw
[22:19] <natrium42> :D
[22:19] <msweeney> if there's one thing "Due South" has taught me...
[22:19] <neontube> lol
[22:20] <neontube> now that was a class tv series
[22:20] <neontube> http://www.buxtonweather.co.uk/
[22:20] <msweeney> ...is that Diefenbaker is the single coolest name for a dog ever
[22:21] Action: msweeney likes Buxton
[22:21] <neontube> my mate called his dog that for that very reason
[22:21] <edmoore> bang boom bing
[22:21] <edmoore> not bing bing bang
[22:21] <neontube> pardon ?
[22:21] <edmoore> it was a random episode of due south
[22:21] <edmoore> he recalled the ricochet noises of a bullet whilst at a church, or something, and solved the crime
[22:22] <msweeney> edmoore is obviously some sort of due south connoisseur
[22:22] Action: natrium42 afk
[22:22] <edmoore> that's the only bit that for some reason i specifically recall
[22:22] <edmoore> even tho it was probably 1995 when i last saw it
[22:23] <msweeney> there's plenty of reruns on shite digital channels
[22:23] <neontube> i found myself just looking for it on bit torrent
[22:24] <neontube> anyway... time to cause an argument again....
[22:24] <neontube> AVR or PIC ?
[22:25] Action: msweeney might leave...
[22:25] <msweeney> anyone use facebook?
[22:26] <msweeney> I don't know if you've heard of it...
[22:29] <neontube> yer i've got facebook id
[22:29] <neontube> had to set one up so we could track what someone was up to using the works internet connection
[22:29] <msweeney> haha
[22:30] <neontube> well we had had a complaint that someone was (from our work) sending abusive messages via facebook
[22:30] <neontube> i work in the network & comms team
[22:31] <neontube> plus also doing an MSc in forensic computing so got landed with the job of investigating it
[22:31] <neontube> think they got kicked out in the end..
[22:31] <msweeney> joy!
[22:32] <neontube> oh well..that will teach them i guess
[22:32] <neontube> :P
[22:33] <msweeney> I made an app for facebook for a customer of mine, and not many people are using it...oh dear
[22:33] <neontube> lol what does it do
[22:33] <msweeney> it's a virtual currency
[22:33] <msweeney> basically you send your friends "Ven" and then they can send them to other people
[22:34] <msweeney> there's no real way of cashing these Ven out into real world, so it's fairly limited
[22:34] <msweeney> and since it relies on lots of people using it...it kinda stagnates when no one does
[22:35] <neontube> customers idea not yours i hope
[22:36] <msweeney> oh yes
[22:39] <neontube> anyway, off to bed, can't focus on the screen anymore, night al
[22:39] <neontube> *all
[22:40] <msweeney> tarra
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[00:00] --- Thu Jan 3 2008