highaltitude.log.20080101

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[05:11] <Professor> werd up
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[11:11] <neontube> happy new year and all that jazz
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[11:37] <neontube> hey jcoxon
[11:37] <jcoxon> hey neontube
[11:38] <jcoxon> happy new year
[11:38] <neontube> you too..
[11:38] <neontube> sore head this morning ?
[11:38] <jcoxon> just tired
[11:39] <neontube> i was all set to head to bed just after the bells, then next door cracked open a box of fire works, and shortly after half the street was out there and we all stopped drinking about 5
[11:39] <jcoxon> haha
[11:40] <jcoxon> sounds good
[11:40] <jcoxon> i've just travelled back from cambridge
[11:40] <neontube> whats even worse is there 3 year old kid looked more awake than anyone else
[11:41] <jcoxon> managed to actually do some work on the train
[11:41] <neontube> where u traveling too
[11:41] <jcoxon> back to london
[11:41] <neontube> work ? i hope u don't mean rent paying work
[11:41] <jcoxon> nah
[11:41] <jcoxon> project work
[11:42] <neontube> fair do
[11:42] <neontube> r u still at uni ?
[11:42] <neontube> or is that all finished now
[11:42] <jcoxon> still at uni
[11:43] <neontube> i shouldn't laugh...
[11:43] <neontube> i'm back part time at uni
[11:43] <neontube> seemed like a good idea to start with
[11:43] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:43] <neontube> but working a full week and then having to crack on with uni work as well soon gets to me
[11:43] <jcoxon> wouldn't mind having a job
[11:44] <jcoxon> in my 4th year and still have 2 left
[11:44] <neontube> what u doing again ?
[11:44] <jcoxon> medicine
[11:44] <neontube> oh yer... to clever for your own good
[11:45] <jcoxon> well
[11:45] <neontube> :P
[11:45] <jcoxon> my new years resolution is to do more work
[11:45] <jcoxon> how sad is that
[11:46] <neontube> oh dear
[11:46] <neontube> and how did u get into the idea of putting a balloon up there ?
[11:47] <jcoxon> read about it online
[11:47] <jcoxon> the UTARC guys
[11:47] <jcoxon> and was ill for a summer so had a lot of time on my hands
[11:48] <neontube> fair enough
[11:49] <neontube> a mate of mine got glandular fever a few years back, spent 6 weeks inside, so in that time taught himself php, sql, and a few other useful webtools. and is now making 800$ a month selling a content management system he wrote in that time too
[11:50] <jcoxon> now that is good going
[11:50] <jcoxon> i've always been into tinkering with computers
[11:50] <jcoxon> but mainly software
[11:50] <jcoxon> i find this challenges me
[11:51] <jcoxon> and potentially it could be incredible
[11:51] <jcoxon> the things we 'could' do
[11:51] <neontube> hes a bit of a nutter though. it was his fault we had to get te coast gaurd to come fetch us out of teh channel
[11:52] <neontube> i'm just looking at thease AVR chips at the mo
[11:52] <neontube> they seem to do alot, and in some ways alot better than PICs
[11:53] <jcoxon> haha, so you've choosen the laurence side
[11:54] <neontube> dunno yet
[11:54] <neontube> not had one to play with
[11:55] <neontube> but the incircuit programing looks alot easier to do
[11:56] <jcoxon> i'm going to stick more complicated stuff
[11:56] <jcoxon> (as in the processor etc)
[11:56] <jcoxon> might cost more but is a lot easier to work with
[11:57] <neontube> yer i guess so
[11:57] <neontube> i don't think i can justify loosing that much cash if a balloon goes down in the drink
[11:58] <neontube> has anyone ever tested there payload to see if it would float ?
[11:58] <jcoxon> yup
[11:58] <jcoxon> peg 3 definitely floated
[11:58] <neontube> but not recovered ?
[11:59] <neontube> would be nice to get a phone call to say its been washed up on a beach :P
[12:00] <jcoxon> oh peg 3 was recoverd
[12:00] <neontube> cool
[12:00] <neontube> which one(s) have u lost ?
[12:00] <jcoxon> tested it in the bath
[12:01] <neontube> ( i could go and read the website i guess :p)
[12:01] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/list_of_launches
[12:01] <jcoxon> i've lost too many
[12:03] <neontube> peg 4 not listed?
[12:03] <jcoxon> peg 4 never got off the ground
[12:03] <jcoxon> it had issues on the launch site
[12:03] <jcoxon> so didn't launch it and it returned to being my router :-p
[12:04] <neontube> was that your router based one ?
[12:04] <neontube> lol
[12:05] <neontube> has anyone attempted to get any sort of sponsorship for this group ?
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[12:06] <Laurenceb> hey all
[12:06] <jcoxon> neontube, sort of, but we are a bit too seperated for sponsership
[12:06] <jcoxon> all have are own projects
[12:06] <jcoxon> also there is the problem about insurance
[12:06] <neontube> yer i guess so
[12:07] <neontube> yer
[12:07] <neontube> do u bother with any ?
[12:07] <jcoxon> sponsers would require a degree of guarantee
[12:07] <jcoxon> i don't
[12:07] <jcoxon> CUSF do, but they are an official organisation
[12:08] <jcoxon> we launch in a low density area
[12:08] <jcoxon> the sky is a big place
[12:09] <neontube> as long as u don't land on someones green house roof there can't be much of a problem
[12:09] <Laurenceb> someone could get a bit mad with us if we landed in their garden say
[12:09] <neontube> taking of which i need to find out which little shit chucked eggs on my greenhouse roof
[12:10] <jcoxon> Laurenceb, its happened before
[12:10] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:10] <neontube> lol i used to land all over the place with my model rockets
[12:10] <Laurenceb> yes, to UKHAS1, but the guy was fine about it
[12:10] <Laurenceb> however, he could have kicked up a bit of a fuss if he'd been so inclined
[12:11] <neontube> most people would be interested to see the photos and stuff than get mad about where it lands
[12:11] <Laurenceb> exactly
[12:12] <neontube> yer as long as u do nice stuff like send them a thanks card with a print of one of the better pictures or something afterwards
[12:12] <jcoxon> if only he knew about hte lack of a parachute on ukhas1
[12:12] <jcoxon> :-p
[12:12] <jcoxon> neontube, of course, and we strive to make payloads as light as possible
[12:13] <neontube> well of coruse, if only to save cash on gas !
[12:14] <jcoxon> indeed
[12:14] <neontube> hello by the way laurenceb
[12:15] <neontube> it would be a miracle if something landed in my garden, its only just big enough for a pigeon to land in
[12:15] <jcoxon> bbl
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[12:16] <neontube> do u have to put radar reflectors on then ?
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[12:17] <neontube> http://www.geocaching.com/
[12:18] <neontube> check out that site, stick in your post code, then see if there is anything hidden near you
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[12:19] <neontube> back later peeps, hangover munchies have kicked in
[12:55] Action: Laurenceb realises you have to enable interrupts to use them
[13:00] <Laurenceb> sweeeettttt
[13:00] <Laurenceb> Error:card not found
[13:00] <Laurenceb> :D
[13:00] Action: Laurenceb ebays for an SD card
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[14:48] <Laurenceb> hi ed
[14:48] <Laurenceb> hi jcoxon
[14:48] <Laurenceb> happy new year :D
[14:49] <edmoore> hi laurenceb
[14:49] <edmoore> thanks!
[14:49] <edmoore> you too
[14:51] <Laurenceb> I think the filesystem is working :P
[14:52] <Laurenceb> it says "no medium in drive"
[14:52] <Laurenceb> which is pretty true
[14:53] <Laurenceb> I'm just about to send off an order for radio boards and a couple of version 2 thermopile amplifiers
[14:53] <Laurenceb> so do you want a radio board?
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[15:02] <edmoore> I'm alright atm, tyvm
[15:11] <Laurenceb> k
[15:11] <Laurenceb> I'm thinking of making a quad rotor
[15:12] <Laurenceb> using a NDS motion card, mega324, four brushed motors running off a lipo, and then maybe an ultrasonic rangefinder for hovering
[15:13] <Laurenceb> its suprisingly simple, the guidance code shouldn't even need any floating point
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[15:13] <edmoore> "its suprisingly simple"
[15:13] <edmoore> if you build it, and it works, I will believe that
[15:14] <Laurenceb> yes, PID loops running off the accel x and y axes
[15:14] <edmoore> until such time as that, I shall stick my finegrs in my ears and say 'lalala' until you finish it
[15:14] <Laurenceb> PI loop off the gyro
[15:14] <Laurenceb> then PID loop off the ultrasonics
[15:15] <Laurenceb> also a sanity check using x^2+y^2+z^2 to shut it down if it goes mad
[15:15] <edmoore> laurence, the thing is, this isn't physics, it's engineering. Lots of things are 'easy' in as far as the mathematical concepts behind them, but harder to actually make
[15:15] <edmoore> as you should know by now
[15:16] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:16] <Laurenceb> well I can see it being fairly easy, its not as nonlinear as other things I've tried
[15:17] <Laurenceb> and you've got lots of data coming into the system
[15:17] <Laurenceb> I could stick this on one uart http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=151
[15:17] <Laurenceb> then have a gps on another
[15:18] <edmoore> ok, build it.
[15:18] <Laurenceb> theres no servos, so it will surely work :P
[15:18] <Laurenceb> too busy :(
[15:19] <Laurenceb> unless... I hire a slave to build it
[15:20] <Laurenceb> edmoore: you're too negative
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[15:47] <Laurenceb> there we go
[15:47] <Laurenceb> https://www.batchpcb.com/imgviewer.php?id=9105&check=89c3803a76cf4d6e6da606f7f600fbbc
[15:57] <Laurenceb> edmoore: have you ordered things from sparkfun by first class international mail?
[15:57] <edmoore> is that the cheapest one?
[15:57] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:58] <Laurenceb> I'm wondering if the more expensive option is worth it?
[15:59] <edmoore> I've not thought it worth the risk of going astray, but I've only ever made large and quite expensive orders
[16:02] <Laurenceb> ok, I've gone for expensive postage
[16:02] <Laurenceb> I'm getting 3 thermopile amp boards and 2 radio boards
[16:03] <Laurenceb> £27 thats not bad
[16:04] <edmoore> they tend to bite you on the bum at customs
[16:04] <edmoore> annoyingly
[16:05] <Laurenceb> well I still dont know what happened to the last order
[16:05] <edmoore> what do you mean?
[16:05] <Laurenceb> I think it would have had to be signed for on delivery
[16:05] <Laurenceb> my last order to batchpcb never arrived
[16:06] <Laurenceb> so hopefully I'll be able to get a refund
[16:06] <Laurenceb> or at least reorder
[16:10] <Laurenceb> ordered ... now the wait begins
[16:11] <Laurenceb> I'm going to design a logger board as soon as I'm sure the mega168 filesystem will work
[16:12] <Laurenceb> then the zagi will use custom pcbs for everything
[16:15] <Laurenceb> I've been thinking about using 2.4GHz data modules rather than RC kit for ground control
[16:15] <Laurenceb> it got a lot going for it
[16:21] <Laurenceb> edmoore: http://home.vrweb.de/~hartmut.kaak/smartflyer/Bilder/Sy_B4.JPG
[16:22] <edmoore> pretty
[16:31] <Laurenceb> http://www.uavp.de/
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[16:35] <edmoore> hi captain_plannet
[17:13] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[17:13] <jcoxon> i have returned
[17:13] <edmoore> aye-up
[17:13] <edmoore> I've not left, tragically
[17:13] <edmoore> been designing a pcb
[17:14] <jcoxon> haha
[17:15] <jcoxon> been reading Ranulph Fiennes' biography
[17:15] <Laurenceb> whats this pcb for?
[17:16] <edmoore> some nova bits and bobs
[17:16] <Laurenceb> cool
[17:16] <edmoore> power distro
[17:16] <edmoore> nowt exciting
[17:17] <edmoore> how is it jcoxon?
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[17:17] <jcoxon> good
[17:17] <jcoxon> inspiring
[17:17] <edmoore> Hi RocketBoy
[17:17] <Laurenceb> hey Rocketboy
[17:17] <RocketBoy> yo guys
[17:17] <Laurenceb> happy new year
[17:18] <RocketBoy> likewise to all
[17:18] <edmoore> re your email, there are some complete-with-antenna sirf II module on sparkfun which are good to all altitudes
[17:18] <edmoore> well, 100+ anyway.... *apparently*
[17:19] <RocketBoy> ah ta - i'll take a look
[17:19] <edmoore> they're annoyingly more expensive than their sirf III modules
[17:19] <edmoore> ublox also will sample complete working designs, including their new reference design with a helical antenna
[17:19] <RocketBoy> at a premium for working at altitude perhaps
[17:20] <edmoore> but they're ¬150
[17:20] <jcoxon> get a gumstix GPSstix (not hte mainboard)
[17:20] <jcoxon> and hacking into the lines
[17:20] <RocketBoy> humm - £75 + shipping? not so interesting then
[17:20] <edmoore> exactly
[17:21] <jcoxon> i've got Peg I's gps
[17:21] <jcoxon> thats sirfII
[17:21] <RocketBoy> I think I can live with the coiled up co-ax
[17:21] <RocketBoy> for that much
[17:21] <edmoore> we need to find a super cheap gizmo from china which has a sirf II or ublox in that we can hack
[17:21] <RocketBoy> yep
[17:22] <RocketBoy> jcoxon - what is peg1 gps?
[17:22] <jcoxon> sirf II
[17:22] <jcoxon> ummm i don't actually know what it is
[17:22] <RocketBoy> b
[17:22] <jcoxon> its enclosed
[17:22] <jcoxon> however
[17:22] <jcoxon> it is 5v levels
[17:22] <jcoxon> sorry rs232
[17:22] <RocketBoy> and true RS232 out?
[17:22] <jcoxon> yup
[17:23] <RocketBoy> yep - that seems the problem - most complete-with-antenna seem to be
[17:23] <jcoxon> i plan to fly it again - not sure what on
[17:24] <jcoxon> its the best gps i've ever worked with
[17:24] <edmoore> http://showcase.netins.net/web/wallio/GPSrcvrsvs60kft.htm
[17:24] <jcoxon> so simple
[17:25] <jcoxon> hmmm, now that is interesting
[17:26] <RocketBoy> humm that link says "We now have solid evidence that GPS receivers based on SiRF-I and SiRF-II chip sets all fail at ~60kft."
[17:26] <edmoore> yes
[17:26] <edmoore> oddly
[17:26] <Laurenceb> I'm not sure about that...
[17:26] <edmoore> there are sirfIIIs on the 'pass' list too
[17:26] <edmoore> confusingly
[17:27] <jcoxon> yeah above 60kft
[17:27] <jcoxon> but not above 24km
[17:27] <RocketBoy> I think its b*ll*cks
[17:27] <edmoore> oh true
[17:27] <edmoore> lol, we really need to launch nova 6
[17:27] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:29] <edmoore> the sirfIII 24km limit is just an input to the kalman filter to help it converge faster, according to mc
[17:30] <RocketBoy> is there a free NMEA generator about - I need somthing to simulate a GPS
[17:30] <jcoxon> i think there is one included in the software gpsd
[17:30] <edmoore> http://www.kagstrom.no/nmea_simulator.htm
[17:31] <edmoore> oh ignore thqat
[17:31] <edmoore> not free
[17:31] <RocketBoy> next time we should record the entire NMEA output from a flight
[17:31] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, actually maybe not
[17:32] <jcoxon> (gpsd having a nmea sim)
[17:32] <RocketBoy> ta - perhaps I'll make somthing to turn a KML into NMEA
[17:35] <Laurenceb> what does static mean in front of a function?
[17:38] <RocketBoy> it just means it is'nt visable outside the file its declared in
[17:38] <RocketBoy> i.e. it can only be called from a function withing the same file
[17:38] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[17:38] <Laurenceb> thanx
[17:39] <RocketBoy> its called limiting scope
[17:39] <Laurenceb> I've ordered a couple of the radio boards
[17:39] <Laurenceb> from batchpcb
[17:41] <Laurenceb> grrr this filesystem is being weird
[17:43] <Laurenceb> sometimes it turns the card on, sometimes not
[17:47] <neontube> evening all
[17:48] <edmoore> hi neontube
[17:48] <neontube> what you all up to
[17:49] <neontube> has anyone successfully used air pressure to measure altitude here ? as a back up to the gps upper limit ?
[17:51] <jcoxon> available pressure sensors won't work at that altitude
[17:52] <neontube> bummer
[17:53] <Laurenceb> argggg now it wont compile :(
[17:53] Action: Laurenceb hates embedded filesystems
[17:54] <edmoore> they don't explicitly *not* work, but accuracy tends to reduce as you get higher
[17:54] <edmoore> natrium used one on his recent flight, which was interesting
[17:55] <edmoore> http://www.natrium42.com/halo/flight2/
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[17:56] <fnoble> hey
[17:57] <Laurenceb> hey fnobel
[17:57] <jcoxon> edmoore, i've read not to trust them above 42km i think
[17:58] <jcoxon> 42k ft
[17:58] <jcoxon> sorry
[17:58] <edmoore> I look forward to the day we get that high
[17:58] <edmoore> oh i see
[17:58] <edmoore> lol
[17:58] <edmoore> yes indeed - you see on natrium's site he used the valid gps data to improve the altimeter
[17:59] <fnoble> ed, when do you plan to come back up to camb?
[18:00] <fnoble> are we going for a pre-term launch stil?
[18:00] <edmoore> Monday
[18:00] <edmoore> I've not heard anything
[18:00] <fnoble> the 7th?
[18:00] <edmoore> it's still the 'I' word, so far as I know
[18:00] <edmoore> yeah
[18:03] <neontube> it not to windy to launch stuff this time of year ?
[18:04] <edmoore> the jet stream is on the whole a bit faster, but there are still good days
[18:05] <neontube> guess so
[18:05] <neontube> tell that to my shed that blew down this week :P
[18:06] <edmoore> ouch!
[18:06] <neontube> i've been meaning to take it down for months
[18:06] <neontube> saved me the job :D
[18:10] <neontube> ooo just found my proper bench power supply and my pcb acid bath :D
[18:11] <edmoore> score!
[18:13] <neontube> its handy working in schools, u get first dibs on stuff they chuck out
[18:13] <neontube> or on stuff other people chuck out and donate to schools
[18:17] <neontube> any mac users got a god PCB design package?
[18:17] <edmoore> unhelpfully, I run eagle on windows
[18:17] <edmoore> eagle does work on osx
[18:17] <Laurenceb> god pcb?
[18:18] <edmoore> but it, for me, works better when emulated on windows, so you avoid the clunky and slow java vm that it takes to run 'natively' on osx
[18:18] <neontube> *good :p
[18:18] <Laurenceb> maybe that will answer the question....
[18:18] <Laurenceb> the meaning of life
[18:18] <neontube> 42 ?
[18:18] <edmoore> but anyway, Eagle from cadsoft is my answer :)
[18:18] <neontube> i'll check them out
[18:19] <edmoore> do you agree lb?
[18:19] <edmoore> it's pretty standard in hobbyist circles. lots of part libraries available for components on the web
[18:20] <edmoore> sparkfun publish a parts library for all their components, which is super helpful
[18:21] <neontube> yer i have just spotted it on batchpcb site as being one to use
[18:21] <neontube> anyway girls and guys, time for tea, bbl
[18:21] <edmoore> olimex (.com) accept eagle part files natively too
[18:21] <edmoore> cya later
[18:23] <Laurenceb> yes eagle is awesome
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[18:30] <fnoble> did yo see that thing about people reverse engineering mifare by slicing through and analysing the silicon
[18:30] <fnoble> insanity
[18:47] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[20:36] Action: Laurenceb has added stack monitoring to the datalogger
[20:36] <Laurenceb> hopefully this should show what the problem is...
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[21:10] <kc0wys> Laurenceb: how is the sd card interfacing working out?
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[21:11] <edmoore> hi jcoxon
[21:11] <jcoxon> hey edmoore
[21:14] <jcoxon> finally worked out how to make my own libraries for firefly
[21:14] <edmoore> how?
[21:14] <jcoxon> oh it was just working out how the import function works
[21:15] <jcoxon> i've cut all the morse stuff out
[21:15] <jcoxon> and put it into a library - makes development so much easier
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[21:36] <neontube> word up
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[21:40] <neontube> what ever did we do before the internet
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[21:52] <Laurenceb> jcoxon: python libraries?
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[22:16] <Laurenceb> hey jcoxon
[22:16] <Laurenceb> I think my heap is colliding with the stack :(
[22:17] <jcoxon> oh dear ;-)
[22:18] <Laurenceb> lol 6 bytes remaining stack space
[22:18] <Laurenceb> according to my debug code
[22:19] <Laurenceb> and thats half way through the initialisation code
[22:19] <Laurenceb> I may have to give up on this mega168 plan
[22:20] <Laurenceb> I'm neither a FAT nor an asm expert, and I think it would need me to be both
[22:20] <Laurenceb> wheras a mega32 would solve the problem much more easily
[22:22] <jcoxon> i wouldn't know
[22:22] <Laurenceb> more flash and ram
[22:24] <Laurenceb> I don't really like this sort of stuff
[22:25] <Laurenceb> control code is more exciting
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[22:43] <Laurenceb> http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2008/01/01/applied-geometry/
[22:46] <fnoble> heh
[22:50] <edmoore> jcoxon
[22:50] <edmoore> infact, anyone
[22:50] <edmoore> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=163#
[22:50] <edmoore> arizona ballooning chapses use these
[22:51] <edmoore> they're happy to the altitudes that they go to
[22:51] <edmoore> and they're cheap
[22:51] <Laurenceb> cool
[22:51] <Laurenceb> I remember looking at similar ages ago
[22:51] <Laurenceb> but not as low power
[22:51] <edmoore> the lower power is very attractive
[22:52] <Laurenceb> the connectors were a pain
[22:52] <jcoxon> yes i've seen them
[22:52] <edmoore> what do you think?
[22:53] <jcoxon> look good
[22:53] <jcoxon> the connectors do look a little fiddly
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[23:04] <Laurenceb> hmm the procyon avrlib mmc code doesnt look bad
[23:04] <Laurenceb> it just reads and writes blocks
[23:04] <Laurenceb> but you can read the raw blocks off the card with the right software right?
[23:08] <fnoble> ed, looks nice, i did notice kd7lmo was using these
[23:09] <fnoble> also has a nice looking homebrew transmitter
[23:11] <edmoore> yes
[23:11] <edmoore> i liked the transmitter
[23:11] <edmoore> annoyingly, most of the DDSs stop at 400MHz
[23:11] <fnoble> analog do some 1ghz ones
[23:11] <edmoore> which is fine for his HF telem, but not so hot for us
[23:11] <edmoore> but the bigger bugger is that you need certification
[23:12] <fnoble> mmm
[23:12] <edmoore> if you want to use a new design and have it license exempt
[23:12] <fnoble> its quite annoying really
[23:12] <edmoore> yes very
[23:12] <edmoore> otherwise that actual RF module the analog do would be great
[23:12] <fnoble> you read about all these american projects with like 5w transmitters on board
[23:12] <edmoore> which did shaping 'n' everything onboard
[23:12] <edmoore> yeah
[23:12] <edmoore> bastards
[23:13] <edmoore> we relly need to get the law changed
[23:13] <edmoore> somehow
[23:13] <fnoble> violence is clearly the only option
[23:13] <fnoble> they've left us no choice
[23:13] <edmoore> it needs to be gone way up over the top, like talking to a cabinet minister and complaining about this is typical of why the US has more startups and innovative companies
[23:13] <edmoore> because students can actually experiment there without tonnes of red tape
[23:13] <edmoore> or something like that. just make something up
[23:14] <fnoble> heh, if you could get enough media weight on board you might actually get somewhere like that
[23:14] <fnoble> but will take a long time, and its likely nobody will care
[23:15] <edmoore> this is the problem
[23:15] <edmoore> it would be so nice to get 1hz telem
[23:15] <fnoble> mmm
[23:15] <fnoble> is it 10mw on any bands or is that the spec for 433?
[23:16] <edmoore> this module I'm working on now for my payload uses the PPS signal to interrupt from sleep to read the nmea, log the data, calc whatever needs calcing, and then goes back to sleep
[23:16] <edmoore> 10mW on any license exempt band
[23:16] <edmoore> if we had lots of receivers i guess we could transmit on several 433 bands
[23:16] <edmoore> because i think it's 10mW per freq
[23:16] <fnoble> is it really hard to get a licence?
[23:16] <edmoore> ££££££
[23:16] <fnoble> i see, a normal ham one doesnt do it
[23:16] <edmoore> you'd have to be a UAV manufacturer or something
[23:17] <edmoore> nope
[23:17] <Laurenceb> edmoore: do you use FAT on NOVA?
[23:17] <fnoble> no
[23:17] <edmoore> no
[23:17] <Laurenceb> or just logging straight to mmc
[23:17] <edmoore> whoops too slow
[23:17] <Laurenceb> right
[23:17] <edmoore> yep
[23:17] <Laurenceb> stuff it I don't have a degree in compsci
[23:17] <fnoble> it really eliminates the point of using a card
[23:18] <fnoble> cos we have to use the payload to read it off
[23:18] <fnoble> :)
[23:18] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:18] <edmoore> that said, it would be nice...
[23:18] <edmoore> i mean, log to some eeprom or something
[23:18] <Laurenceb> AVRDOS
[23:18] <edmoore> and then use the arm's usb as a mass storage
[23:18] <edmoore> and pull a .dat file off
[23:18] <fnoble> the latest nova tracker used a flash chip instead of a card
[23:19] <Laurenceb> but AVRDOS isnt GPL so...
[23:19] <edmoore> and then do that fun thing we always talk about
[23:19] <Laurenceb> ok
[23:19] <Laurenceb> ?
[23:19] <edmoore> a script you run on the dat file
[23:19] <fnoble> i think logging to microSD with proper fat would be a good option
[23:19] <edmoore> fires up matlab or actave
[23:20] <edmoore> does all the data processing, makes a load of graphs, generates a kml, etc etc
[23:20] <Laurenceb> it is "possible" to have FAT32 on a mega168, but a bit beyond my skills to optimise it enough
[23:20] <Laurenceb> to fit in ram without heap overflowing into stack
[23:21] <fnoble> did you try the version of fatfs that is designed for limited ram
[23:21] <Laurenceb> having said that I've reduced flash use from 25KB to 13
[23:21] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:21] <fnoble> hmm, i thought it was supposed to fit in a tiny amount
[23:21] <Laurenceb> there probably some clever tricks here and there
[23:22] <fnoble> <1kb
[23:22] <Laurenceb> but I stuck some debugging code on there and got back 6 bytes free just before it hung
[23:22] <fnoble> hmm
[23:22] <edmoore> I reckon my flight computer should fit in an altoids tin
[23:22] <edmoore> it seems to be the fashionable thing to do
[23:22] <fnoble> well, sounds like you need a chip with a bit more whelly
[23:23] <edmoore> and it'll guarentee me a spot on make blog
[23:23] <Laurenceb> yes
[23:23] <Laurenceb> its easier than hours faffing with asm
[23:23] <fnoble> you dont want your flight computer using 90% of its resources doing filesystem stuff :)
[23:23] <Laurenceb> my FAT processor is dedicated
[23:23] <fnoble> in that case i think you can get some clever integrated things off the shelf
[23:24] <Laurenceb> I'm aiming for custom boards and opensource code for everything
[23:24] <Laurenceb> also AVR for everything
[23:25] <fnoble> i remember seeing one funky ic that had a usb interface, and identified as mass storage, managed fat r/w to some kind of flash or mmc and had an interface for the cpu which allowed for ICP as well
[23:25] <Laurenceb> I think thats the crownhill logger chip
[23:25] <Laurenceb> also runs java IIRC
[23:26] <edmoore> spark sell something like that
[23:26] <Laurenceb> I'll probably go for a mega32 based logger
[23:26] <Laurenceb> then if the worst comes to the worst it will run avr-dos
[23:28] <Laurenceb> so the whole thing will be a mega64 main board, talking over uart1 to mega32 logger, uart0 to gps and mega48 radio, spi to thermopile module, and pwm to servos
[23:29] <Laurenceb> and PCINTs or ICP3 to capture pwm from a RX
[23:31] <Laurenceb> I'm going back down to oxford tomorrow, starting on my project :D
[23:33] <Laurenceb> making 3KV power supplies probably :P
[23:33] <fnoble> whats your project?
[23:33] <fnoble> not balloon related?
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yes :D
[23:34] <Laurenceb> its going to be a high altitude sample return mission to examine nanoparticulates
[23:35] <fnoble> neat
[23:35] <Laurenceb> using HV precipitators to sample the particles
[23:36] <edmoore> the connectors don't look that fiddly
[23:36] <Laurenceb> I'm also going for an AVR32 linux board, then 8 bit AVRs for hardware interfacing
[23:36] <fnoble> connectors?
[23:36] <Laurenceb> on the gps modules
[23:37] <edmoore> why avr32?
[23:38] <Laurenceb> cuz its cheap
[23:38] <Laurenceb> ngw100 board that is
[23:47] <fnoble> does anyone know if the etek 5hz gps works at altitude?
[23:47] <edmoore> nope
[23:50] <edmoore> that is, I don't know
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[23:59] <fnoble> was it one of the ones lined up for the gps test payload
[23:59] <edmoore> i think so yes
[23:59] <edmoore> do you know what's happened to that?
[00:00] --- Wed Jan 2 2008