highaltitude.log.20070414

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[19:11] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:12] <jcoxon> edwardmoore, i've worked out a method of deployment for the parafoil
[19:12] <edwardmoore> wow really?
[19:12] <edwardmoore> tell
[19:13] <jcoxon> its more how to do drogue and parafoil
[19:13] <edwardmoore> i'm listening
[19:13] <jcoxon> hmmm i'll draw it
[19:13] <jcoxon> give me a couple of mins
[19:13] <edwardmoore> cool thanks
[19:13] <edwardmoore> ok
[19:17] Action: jcoxon is just downloading a drawing program
[19:17] <jcoxon> i've had the most uproductive day ever
[19:17] <edwardmoore> i did 1 tripod question
[19:17] <edwardmoore> now i feel wrethced
[19:18] <edwardmoore> bet you've done more
[19:18] <edwardmoore> is there a paint equivalent for os x?
[19:18] <jcoxon> hmmm not preinstalled
[19:30] <jcoxon> right uploading now
[19:30] <edwardmoore> coolio
[19:31] CablitoBR (i=cablito@c951be77.virtua.com.br) joined #highaltitude.
[19:31] <CablitoBR> hey
[19:31] Nick change: CablitoBR -> CablitoE
[19:32] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/parawing/design1.jpg
[19:32] <jcoxon> hey CablitoE
[19:32] <CablitoE> hey you guys been up to some good activity
[19:32] <CablitoE> I?ve been reading the wiki, havent had time to join u on irc
[19:33] <jcoxon> :)
[19:34] <CablitoE> Thats the bad part about being in brazil, missing some of the action up there.
[19:34] edwardmoore (n=edwardmo@88.212.167.121) left irc:
[19:35] <CablitoE> funny how the zero pressure ballon did not work out
[19:35] <jcoxon> the utarc one?
[19:35] <CablitoE> was the ascent rate to high that the ballon took an "arrow" shape and squized the helium out of it?
[19:37] <CablitoE> by the way who is utarc's contact here?
[19:38] <jcoxon> there isn't one
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[19:38] <CablitoE> they dont come here?
[19:38] <jcoxon> i've emailed them before but they've never really followed it up
[19:38] <edwardmoore> sorry i got cut off
[19:38] <edwardmoore> that sounds awesome
[19:38] <CablitoE> damm
[19:38] <jcoxon> did you get my link ed?
[19:38] <edwardmoore> looks*
[19:38] <CablitoE> i wondered if they would release the DTRC on opensource
[19:38] <edwardmoore> yes, ty
[19:38] <jcoxon> CablitoE, yeah
[19:38] <CablitoE> put it on source forge so we could all colaborate
[19:39] <edwardmoore> i reckon an explosive cutdown would work
[19:39] <jcoxon> also i think we'd be quite usefull as they are attempting to cross the atlantic
[19:39] <edwardmoore> we could shackle it with one of the home-made explosive bolts
[19:39] <CablitoE> instead, if that does not happen, perhaps we should start a own breed of tracker
[19:39] <jcoxon> oh CablitoE have you seen my groundcontrol?
[19:39] <CablitoE> no
[19:40] <edwardmoore> CabliotoE, you're now renamed Major Tom
[19:40] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:groundcontrol
[19:40] <CablitoE> hehe - lol.
[19:40] <jcoxon> its an old screenshot
[19:40] <edwardmoore> also jimbo, don't you think that's a bit forward?
[19:40] <jcoxon> i've added some more
[19:40] <CablitoE> Coccoa C?
[19:41] <jcoxon> edwardmoore, ?
[19:41] <CablitoE> RubyCocoa
[19:41] <edwardmoore> :p
[19:41] <jcoxon> yup RubyCocoa
[19:41] <CablitoE> could you be a little more awkward?
[19:42] <CablitoE> instead of mac/coccoa/ruby, try something like Python on BEOs?
[19:42] <edwardmoore> that's my favourite cocktail, btw
[19:43] <jcoxon> CablitoE, haha
[19:43] <jcoxon> it isn't very portable is it
[19:43] <edwardmoore> the explosive bolts for this will be damn nice actually methinks
[19:43] <CablitoE> I am sorry i cant help in that department, Mac & Ruby, I havent had the time to invest in learning yetanotherlanguage; even though ruby seems so attractive.
[19:43] <jcoxon> but both ed and i have macs so thats why i wrote it like that
[19:43] <edwardmoore> i've mentally designed a cool shackle
[19:44] <jcoxon> CablitoE, what i meant though was that something could be intergrated
[19:44] <edwardmoore> and macs are better i beleive
[19:44] <jcoxon> to forward data to server
[19:44] <CablitoE> Still, maybe give a bit of consideration for, well, the rest of the humans in earth that use PC computers?
[19:45] <CablitoE> I know a lot of HAMs use PCS, easier to get free rtty software and all.
[19:45] <edwardmoore> cocoamodem!
[19:45] <edwardmoore> it's like sex in fourier analysis form
[19:46] <jcoxon> calm yourself edwardmoore
[19:46] <CablitoE> you are using OSX ? yeah, smart move from apple. I mean, it can mean both things; they moved from one isolated iceberg to another (unix), but yeah, easier to get stuff for and write software as well.
[19:47] <edwardmoore> and soliderer.
[19:47] <edwardmoore> and does rsync without spending £90 for rsync in gui form
[19:47] <CablitoE> I found a "balloon" friend at last in Brazil, we are going to try to get a few of us... its really hard to find people interested in anything but soccer, he has built a zepelin, pretty cool one too.
[19:48] <jcoxon> oh wow
[19:48] <jcoxon> cool
[19:48] <CablitoE> and what hurts is we?ve got the perfect conditions here to launch.... endless space, very low regulations.
[19:49] <jcoxon> well oneday we'll go for the UK to Brazil mission
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[19:50] <CablitoE> to be honest, no regulations. We would warn the airforce about it, except our air controllers just had a riot and are no longer military and the airforce gave up aircontrol, so no air control in brazil, the guys at the control center are doing it for "love", cause they are to face 8 years of jailtime for dropping out of the military on a riot.
[19:51] <CablitoE> I flew the other day, and that just woke up that desire for altitude again; at mere 40.000 feet, the earth looks a lot different than from the ground. I kept thinking about the range for line-of-sight.
[19:52] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:53] <CablitoE> what sucks about brazil is how hard it is to get materials
[19:53] <CablitoE> i spend today's morning chasing components to build my water cooling
[19:53] <CablitoE> cpu water cooler
[19:54] <CablitoE> halfway i gave up and figured just getting some copper tubes were enough of a goal, perhaps play with some large passive dissipating array
[19:54] <CablitoE> came home empty handed.
[19:55] <CablitoE> I imagine the day I have to go rent a helium tank, I am gonna need to dress like a clown and say its for filling balloons at a 2 year old's party.
[19:57] <jcoxon> haha
[19:57] <jcoxon> oh CablitoE i think its this summer there will be some pros coming to brazil to launch balloons
[19:57] <CablitoE> so you working on another launch?
[19:57] <jcoxon> yeah i'm building peg V
[19:57] <CablitoE> yeah really? who? where?
[19:59] <jcoxon> well i know that the guys i went to africa have launched in brazil before
[19:59] <CablitoE> 3 axis accelerometer < sweet.
[19:59] <jcoxon> and i think a group are going again
[19:59] <jcoxon> one sec i'll look up some info
[20:00] <CablitoE> ok
[20:03] <jcoxon> these are the guys i go with
[20:03] <jcoxon> http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/%7Ehalocarbon/
[20:03] <jcoxon> go to the campaign images
[20:03] <jcoxon> and check out
[20:03] <jcoxon> bauru
[20:04] <CablitoE> way near by
[20:04] <CablitoE> I will contact them to find out about it.
[20:04] <CablitoE> 2 hour drive from home
[20:05] <jcoxon> i'm just finding out if there is a campagin this year
[20:05] <jcoxon> the guys from the link aren't going i know that
[20:05] <jcoxon> but some others might
[20:05] <CablitoE> yeah, they might have a contact;
[20:06] <jcoxon> give me sec i'm finding it for you!
[20:06] <CablitoE> thanks man
[20:09] <jcoxon> hmmm it looks like they are launching someh
[20:09] <jcoxon> somewhere else
[20:09] <jcoxon> :
[20:09] <jcoxon> http://www.ozone-sec.ch.cam.ac.uk/scout_o3/field_campaigns/balloon/balloon_index.htm
[20:10] <jcoxon> scroll down to see the stuff about brazil
[20:10] <CablitoE> hey, check this image http://members.aol.com/RBGliders/Robart/Robart_UFO_Closeup.JPG this is kinda of what I thought of shape for gliders, not that shape actually, but basically a "monoblock" construction for a glider, the shape actually has to be more of a "naturally" stable one, one that requires no control, that spirals down (clockwise or not-lol), but that has a fall pattern such as: freefall, aerodyanmically line up to glide position,
[20:10] <CablitoE> "trying" to keep altitude, stalls, then recovers to glide position
[20:10] <CablitoE> The second phase and third phase will be performed in Teresina, NE of Brazil in 2007/2008.
[20:11] <jcoxon> thats it
[20:11] <CablitoE> That will cost me 600 bucks to get there and back, 2 hours plane one way.
[20:12] <jcoxon> there is an email address at the bottom
[20:12] <jcoxon> thats martin
[20:12] <jcoxon> he's a nice guy - email him if you want some more info
[20:12] <jcoxon> about the campaign
[20:12] <jcoxon> they'll have some helium ;-)
[20:12] <CablitoE> will do, thanks. If I can manage to be available on the date, i will go for sure.
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[20:13] <CablitoE> hey
[20:13] <CablitoE> this is the shape I am talking about
[20:13] <CablitoE> http://groups.msn.com/spacecowboysaloon/m2f2.msnw
[20:13] <msweeney> evening all
[20:13] <jcoxon> hi msweeney
[20:13] <CablitoE> check all the pictures - lol
[20:15] Action: msweeney is new to IRC (and HAB) - so just getting used to the commands
[20:15] <CablitoE> http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Lifting_Bodies/x-24/x-24a_ramp.jpg
[20:15] <CablitoE> msweeney... be welcome
[20:15] <CablitoE> what are u using for IRC?
[20:15] <msweeney> visual IRC
[20:15] <msweeney> seems to be alright
[20:16] <CablitoE> Yeah, good, but overly complicated. I use Opera for browsing and it has built-in IRC
[20:16] Action: msweeney didn't know that. I'm a ff addict, twould be useful if it had IRC
[20:16] Action: jcoxon uses XChat Aqua
[20:16] Action: msweeney finds chatzilla for mozilla - anyone use?
[20:17] <jcoxon> CablitoE, lifting bodies - ed and i looked into it
[20:17] <CablitoE> Ooo, yeah, firefox, hum... yeah, lets try to find something else we can get along with, because on the browser subject, we are enemies already :)
[20:17] <jcoxon> we are basing quite a lot of a parafoil work on the X-38
[20:17] <msweeney> @cab haha ok, i'll not shoot you over it. Tis only a browser afterall
[20:18] <jcoxon> msweeney, we are discussing gliders and also balloon campagins in brazil
[20:18] <CablitoE> cool. Yeah, the glider has to be a natural "uncontrolled" fall
[20:18] <CablitoE> I think using autopilot is an overkill
[20:18] Action: msweeney read the logs before coming - it looks very interesting
[20:18] <CablitoE> I have modeled several shapes in 3d a while ago
[20:19] <icez> FF has IRC too...with chatzilla :)
[20:19] Action: msweeney worked in an autopilot dept last year, fascinating stuff
[20:19] <CablitoE> trying to vizualise what I have in mind, but there is no other way to test than to get some cheap styroform and build it: holding point, THE MESS
[20:20] <CablitoE> every work with styroform? its the handcraft of the devil; his hobby it must be.
[20:21] <icez> not if you had an heated wire :]
[20:21] <jcoxon> need a hot wire cutter and a glue gun
[20:21] <icez> time to dismentle your old toaster :)
[20:21] <CablitoE> Whenever i sand it, its as if I was breaking it down to its atomic level, each and every styroform atoms gets lose
[20:22] <CablitoE> doing it on my black carpet probably makes it look worst than it is though
[20:22] <CablitoE> Anyway, it would be interesting to come up with a shape for a glider
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[20:23] <msweeney> quit
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[20:23] Nick change: Owner -> msweeney
[20:23] <icez> why not use that other stuff that looks like styrofoam?
[20:23] <CablitoE> one that requires no control, the downside is that if it glides too well, you might have to go fetch it at sea (launching in england)
[20:23] <icez> but doesn't desintegrate like it?
[20:23] <CablitoE> I mean for testing out shapes, styroform is available on wallmart and its dirt cheap
[20:24] <CablitoE> 20 km height, glide ratio of 1:10, thats 200km already, and 1:10 is almost as bad as a CD glides when tossed out of a building.
[20:25] <CablitoE> so spiralling would be mandatory
[20:28] <CablitoE> this shape > http://www.unrealaircraft.com/wings/images/sv5d.jpeg
[20:28] <CablitoE> the fixed rear "elevators"
[20:28] <CablitoE> make up for the "glide>stall>glide" pattern
[20:29] <CablitoE> with a tiny trim on one side, it would spiral (or tragically roll)
[20:30] <CablitoE> people who fear not death: http://members.aol.com/slicklynne/facet.htm
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[20:42] Action: msweeney wonders...given that I'm a newbie to the HBA scene, what're the best steps to get a successful flight + recovery under my belt?
[20:43] <icez> go simple and cheap at the beginning
[20:43] <icez> don't jump steps (going from cheapy to way biggie on the second try)
[20:43] <icez> so if you _do_ lose it, you won't cry as long :P
[20:44] Action: msweeney grins
[20:44] <msweeney> so what's the cheapest method of location?
[20:44] <icez> you're in the UK right?
[20:44] Action: msweeney is
[20:44] <CablitoE> brb
[20:44] CablitoE (i=cablito@c951be77.virtua.com.br) left #highaltitude.
[20:45] Action: msweeney is a rocket-head
[20:45] <icez> well...I'm not sure
[20:45] <icez> cool, me too:)
[20:45] <msweeney> oooh, who are you IRL?
[20:45] <edwardmoore> what sort of rocket experience do you have?
[20:45] <icez> I know jcoxon is using cellphones (I think)
[20:45] <icez> I'm nobody in the UK:P
[20:45] <msweeney> did you see top gear's shuttle?
[20:45] <edwardmoore> naturally
[20:46] Action: msweeney did the motors
[20:46] <edwardmoore> damian?
[20:46] <msweeney> m sweeney
[20:46] Action: msweeney is a nitrous bitch
[20:46] <edwardmoore> i guess you know damien tho!
[20:46] <icez> outch
[20:46] <icez> that's wayy bigger than my stuff :(
[20:46] <msweeney> well yes, he organised it. Colin built it, I did the motors
[20:47] <edwardmoore> awesome
[20:47] <msweeney> dont worry, much bigger than anyone's stuff
[20:47] Action: icez is still using estée motors:P
[20:47] <edwardmoore> that was very cool
[20:47] Action: msweeney thinks that was very stressfull
[20:47] <edwardmoore> i'm looking at an L hybrid to play with some stuff for a balloon rocket
[20:48] <edwardmoore> that said, i need to finish my L1, then I can get onto it
[20:48] Action: icez is watching a video of it right now
[20:48] Action: msweeney is only L1, but i've been launching >l2 stuff for ages
[20:48] <edwardmoore> anyhu I'm being unhelpful to you. Do you have any 'tronics experience?
[20:48] <icez> are you the guy running like crazy?:)
[20:48] <msweeney> not really
[20:49] <msweeney> haha how topical. Nope, that was our electronics guy
[20:49] <edwardmoore> icez he ran like an electronics guy, should be obvious :p
[20:49] <msweeney> even more topically he works for qinetiq and did all the stuff for the qinetiq 1 balloon
[20:49] <msweeney> before it fell over
[20:49] <edwardmoore> lol
[20:49] <edwardmoore> yeah shame that
[20:49] <icez> woops
[20:49] <icez> nice landing :/
[20:50] <msweeney> he's an absolute genius, but in some ways the main reason the shuttle landed like that
[20:50] <edwardmoore> well, it's basically an electronics job, but thankfully not a tricky one
[20:50] <edwardmoore> that was a fake explosion wasn't it....
[20:50] <msweeney> oh yeah
[20:50] <jcoxon> msweeney, for the cheapest start the question is can you program microcontrollers?
[20:50] <edwardmoore> looked a bit on the un-realistic side :)
[20:50] <msweeney> @jcox not at the moment
[20:51] <edwardmoore> i'd have a look at picaxe
[20:51] <jcoxon> are you willing to learn? if not go with a gumstix
[20:51] <msweeney> yeah, we did it on a firing range and that's some footage of a 10klb bomb they were testing
[20:51] <msweeney> I'm quite willing to learn
[20:52] <jcoxon> well i don't like microcontrollers
[20:52] <jcoxon> perfer the easy and flexibility of a gumstix
[20:52] <edwardmoore> i would shout for picaxe over gumstix initially as it'll teach you basic useful electronics and microcontrollers, and is dead easy to use and prgram
[20:52] <edwardmoore> i'm the opposite ;)
[20:53] <jcoxon> ooo the new gumstix you can directly attach a ccd
[20:53] <msweeney> Well my wallet will play a big part in the decision
[20:53] <msweeney> given that I'm a student, it can't be tooo expensive
[20:53] <edwardmoore> the balloon is really there to take some photos (assuming you want to take some) by which it just fires the shutter button, and the more tricky bit is the gps
[20:53] <edwardmoore> picaxe chips are about £3 a pop
[20:54] <jcoxon> hehe i love the gumstix vs war we always have
[20:54] <msweeney> I do like the look of gumstix, plus I'm familiar with linux and can pick up perl as I need it
[20:54] <edwardmoore> they're based on 'PIC' chips (ubiquitous microcontrollers) but they're a lot easy to program and all the software is free
[20:55] <jcoxon> well its up to you
[20:55] <jcoxon> both systems have been tried and tested
[20:55] <edwardmoore> gumstix however does have the advantage that talking to a GPS isn't the most trivial thing for someone new to microcontrollers, whereas it's no more difficult than much else on a gumstix
[20:56] <msweeney> if I was to go with the gumstix approach, how easy would it be to get my Rockwell Jupiter GPS receiver to talk to it?
[20:56] <edwardmoore> however the linux kernal is kinda overkill for a balloon :P at least, basic ones
[20:57] <icez> but it's nicely expandable
[20:57] <edwardmoore> almost all GPS units output the same thing (the NMEA protocol) out of their serial ports, so assuming it does that (it almost certainly will) then you won't have a problem talking to it
[20:57] <jcoxon> matter of wiring it up
[20:57] <jcoxon> and then doing the command "cat /dev/ttySx
[20:57] <jcoxon> and watching it stream in
[20:57] <msweeney> skill level of wiring it up?
[20:58] <edwardmoore> 3 wires
[20:58] Action: msweeney could just about manage 3
[20:58] <edwardmoore> +v, 0v, and signal
[20:58] <edwardmoore> but that's the same on whatever platform you use really
[20:59] <edwardmoore> msweeney I think i might have met you at EARS at some point...
[21:00] <edwardmoore> next time i'm there i'll come and say hi and see if you are who i think you are :)
[21:00] <msweeney> I also have an old nokia 6130 and have been looking at gnokii to send SMS through it
[21:00] <msweeney> em, I've not been to EARS for a while...when was it?
[21:00] <edwardmoore> last one before christmas?
[21:00] <edwardmoore> nov i think
[21:01] <msweeney> If the phone is out of signal range, what happens to the messages sent through gnokii
[21:01] <msweeney> em, twasn't me
[21:01] <edwardmoore> lol, ok sorry
[21:02] <jcoxon> they won't send
[21:02] <jcoxon> it times out after about 60 secs
[21:02] <icez> msweeney, if I can give you a little boost in your confidence, if I can program AVRs, anyone can :P
[21:02] <msweeney> AVRs?
[21:02] <icez> atmel microcontrollers
[21:03] <msweeney> @jcox, thats pretty good
[21:03] <edwardmoore> the microcontroller world has two big names... PICs and AVRs
[21:03] <edwardmoore> both have their followers
[21:03] <msweeney> I've used PICs a little, but have not even heard of avrs
[21:03] Action: msweeney shows his ignorance
[21:03] <edwardmoore> they're basically the same, just a lil different
[21:04] <edwardmoore> look the same, smell the same, just made by someone else and have a slightly different internal arrangement, but they're all much for much
[21:05] <jcoxon> one thing i suggest though is that you also include a radio beacon
[21:05] <jcoxon> just incase things go wrong
[21:05] <msweeney> right. Another area of ignorance I'm afraid
[21:06] <icez> we have a lot of information too on the wiki (http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/)
[21:06] <icez> :P
[21:06] <edwardmoore> the radio stuff needn't be scary. you can litterally pulse morse code on an output pin to an off-the shelf radio module (we can show you which and how) and pic up a receiver to listen
[21:07] <edwardmoore> what are you a student in?
[21:07] <jcoxon> or just use the radio beacons used in rocketry
[21:07] <msweeney> physics
[21:07] <jcoxon> thats where it all started for us
[21:07] <msweeney> yep, they're pretty good...I just dont have one
[21:07] <edwardmoore> h'ok cool
[21:07] <msweeney> et tu?
[21:08] Action: icez is doing CS/astrophysics
[21:08] <edwardmoore> well the radio can be made slightly more complicated by shaping the pulses to it to lob off the high frequencies (think fourier transform) but that's about as complicated as anything gets
[21:08] <edwardmoore> engineering
[21:09] Action: msweeney is at Leeds. Are you all CU bods?
[21:09] <edwardmoore> jcoxon and I are
[21:10] <icez> CU?
[21:10] <icez> oh
[21:10] <icez> nevermind
[21:10] <msweeney> how difficult is it to transmit data (ie GPS) over radio?
[21:10] <icez> my head was thinking 'where is the oxford in CU?!' :p
[21:11] Action: msweeney grins
[21:11] <jcoxon> msweeney, well if i've got it working it ain't difficult
[21:11] <msweeney> are you not an electronics demigod?
[21:11] <jcoxon> ha me
[21:11] <jcoxon> no
[21:11] <jcoxon> i'm awful at electronics
[21:12] <edwardmoore> good at healing 'flu tho
[21:12] <icez> haha
[21:12] <jcoxon> medicine is only a hobby
[21:12] <jcoxon> :-p
[21:12] Action: msweeney is considering setting up a Leeds uni High Alt soc...to attract some people better at electronics than me
[21:13] <icez> why not make UKHAS a inter-university club ?:P
[21:13] <msweeney> jcoxon, what do you study?
[21:13] <jcoxon> medicine
[21:13] <msweeney> wows, not a typical crossover
[21:14] <msweeney> my girlfriend is a medic, she's going through revision hell at the moment
[21:14] <jcoxon> i'm doing my BA at the mo
[21:15] <jcoxon> haven't done any proper medicine for a year
[21:15] <msweeney> oh right
[21:15] <jcoxon> though i'll be in hospitals all the time for hte next 3 years
[21:15] Action: msweeney 's gf too, more or less
[21:16] Action: msweeney is doing medicine by proxy
[21:16] <jcoxon> the joys of a 6 year degree
[21:16] <jcoxon> i bet
[21:16] <jcoxon> medics can't stop talking about hteir work
[21:16] <jcoxon> tis a terrible habit
[21:16] Action: msweeney is a lab rat/guinea pig
[21:16] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:16] <jcoxon> back to electronics
[21:16] <jcoxon> thats the joy of a gumstix
[21:16] <jcoxon> its literally a matter of soldering wires between things
[21:17] Action: msweeney better invest then
[21:17] <jcoxon> i think my peg V design is a nice start for someone
[21:17] <jcoxon> got mobile phone and radio
[21:17] <msweeney> where might I find the design?
[21:17] <jcoxon> i'll write it up once i finish it
[21:18] <jcoxon> which won't be long
[21:18] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/pegasus5.html
[21:18] <jcoxon> though there have been some changes which i'll update now
[21:18] <jcoxon> i'm shifting hte focus of the mission
[21:18] <edwardmoore> msweeney, we sometimes launch at EARS events (by which I mean, we have done once :) ) so you should come along if u can
[21:19] Action: msweeney will brb
[21:19] <jcoxon> edwardmoore, we need to do some parafoil stuff soon!
[21:19] <edwardmoore> yes i know. although i'm getting a little worried by exams
[21:19] <icez> tallking about radio beacons..what do those things look like?
[21:19] <icez> :/
[21:19] <edwardmoore> panic is beginning to set in
[21:20] <jcoxon> hmmm well don't stress yourself
[21:21] <jcoxon> as long as we keep things ticking over
[21:21] <edwardmoore> oh yeah sure, it'll be a nice break. But i'm not sure i'll be able to throw entire weekends at it
[21:21] <jcoxon> i think i might make a little model parafoil and deployment system
[21:21] <jcoxon> of course
[21:21] <jcoxon> couple of hours here and there will do fine!
[21:22] <edwardmoore> cool :)
[21:22] <jcoxon> i've pretty much assembled my payload now
[21:23] <jcoxon> a couple more wires, setting up the software and then getting groundcontrol done
[21:23] <jcoxon> and then i can launch!
[21:25] <msweeney> jcoxon, ive been reading that page - tis a very helpful website
[21:26] <jcoxon> just realised that actually its a little off
[21:26] <jcoxon> i've changed the focus of the payload a bit
[21:26] <jcoxon> reverted to an old idea i want to test
[21:26] <jcoxon> same components
[21:26] <jcoxon> the plan is to use the digital compass to calculat the rate of spin
[21:26] <jcoxon> and make it take pictures when it is facing one direction
[21:27] <jcoxon> these coupled with hte gps data can then be used to calculate the height of clouds
[21:27] <jcoxon> which apparently is difficult to do
[21:28] <msweeney> interesting. Why is it difficult?
[21:28] <edwardmoore> why do you need to know the direction when you take the photos?
[21:28] <jcoxon> its not the direction when you take the photo
[21:28] <jcoxon> its taking hte photo when you are facing one direction
[21:29] <jcoxon> so you can then use photogrammetry - like stereoimaging
[21:29] <edwardmoore> can you face more than one direction?
[21:29] <jcoxon> as it spins
[21:29] <edwardmoore> (asks the physicist)
[21:29] <edwardmoore> actually i'm not being a pain, just having difficulties
[21:29] <jcoxon> side facing camera
[21:29] <edwardmoore> oh i think i se what you mean
[21:29] <jcoxon> payload spinning
[21:29] <jcoxon> when the camera faces say north
[21:29] <jcoxon> click
[21:30] <edwardmoore> yep got you now
[21:30] <msweeney> could be very useful
[21:30] <edwardmoore> so the measurements happen in the vertical plane of the photo
[21:30] <jcoxon> ummmm basically ground based radar is good at bottom of clouds
[21:30] <msweeney> oh, do gumstix get charged duty on importing?
[21:30] <jcoxon> yes :(
[21:30] Action: msweeney tuts
[21:30] <msweeney> 17.5%?
[21:31] <edwardmoore> *cough*PIC*cough
[21:31] <jcoxon> unless you can get round it
[21:31] <msweeney> :listens
[21:31] <jcoxon> as in get it sent to someone in the us
[21:31] <jcoxon> who then will send it to you as a gift
[21:31] <msweeney> nice
[21:31] Action: msweeney knows just the man
[21:32] Action: jcoxon wants the new gumstix
[21:32] <msweeney> which one/
[21:32] <jcoxon> the verdex
[21:32] <jcoxon> i only have a connex
[21:32] <jcoxon> well 2 connex
[21:33] <jcoxon> edwardmoore, oh i'm quite excited about the parafoil - read on the nova pin board that the british antarctic survery had expressed an interest in meteor
[21:33] <jcoxon> wouldn't mind filling the gap
[21:33] <jcoxon> and going to antarctica
[21:33] <edwardmoore> yes it would be awesome to get it ivolved with that!
[21:34] <msweeney> I'd love to go to antarctica - one of my ambitions in life
[21:34] <jcoxon> msweeney, same
[21:34] <edwardmoore> they have a cash machine on the south pole
[21:34] <jcoxon> edwardmoore, though it does mean we need to make it :-D
[21:34] <edwardmoore> details!
[21:34] <edwardmoore> tho... arctic winds
[21:35] Action: msweeney thinks...meteor?
[21:35] <jcoxon> polar vortex
[21:35] <jcoxon> msweeney, http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/meteor.html
[21:35] <jcoxon> though it isn't really happening anymore
[21:35] <edwardmoore> do you know what gliders do if they loose all input?
[21:36] <msweeney> jcoxon, looked at this before actually - looks cool. I did prefer martlet, not least because it sounds like my name....
[21:36] <msweeney> edwardmoore, dive?
[21:36] <edwardmoore> cos i mean the parafoil is passivelly stable
[21:36] <edwardmoore> well this is what i'm wondering
[21:36] <edwardmoore> it might just.... glide
[21:36] <jcoxon> it'll glide surely
[21:36] <msweeney> depends if it's stable?
[21:36] <edwardmoore> it'd be nice if it dived tho as it would give us a selling point with the parachute :)
[21:37] <msweeney> and what the control surfaces are doing?
[21:37] <edwardmoore> yeah i guess it all depends on them
[21:37] <edwardmoore> well, that's good for us
[21:37] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:39] <msweeney> verdex...64MB ram, 400MHZ...I remember when you couldnt get that in a desktop!!
[21:39] rocketboy (n=steve@host217-42-170-186.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:39] <edwardmoore> hi steve
[21:39] <rocketboy> yo
[21:39] <msweeney> allo
[21:40] <edwardmoore> msweeney is looking to build a payload and launch it
[21:40] <jcoxon> msweeney, rocketboy, ed and i are working on our own version of meteor
[21:40] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) got netsplit.
[21:40] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) got netsplit.
[21:40] phatmonkey (i=nobody@81.2.121.150) got netsplit.
[21:41] <rocketboy> wow - am i still ere
[21:41] <msweeney> hrm, why did they all leave at once>
[21:41] <rocketboy> must have been somthing i said ;-)
[21:41] <edwardmoore> the man wanted them to go
[21:42] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) returned to #highaltitude.
[21:42] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[21:42] phatmonkey (i=nobody@81.2.121.150) returned to #highaltitude.
[21:42] <rocketboy> I guess theya re all on the same server and it crashed
[21:42] <edwardmoore> and they're back
[21:42] <edwardmoore> the man obviously knew we were on to him
[21:42] <edwardmoore> i prefer my explanation steve
[21:42] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Connection reset by peer
[21:42] <rocketboy> yeah - conspiracy theories are always best
[21:43] <edwardmoore> did anyone just get a global message?
[21:43] <msweeney> yep
[21:43] <rocketboy> yesp
[21:43] <edwardmoore> what did it say?
[21:43] <rocketboy> christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, looks like one of our UK sponsors had a bit of a routing hiccup. Affected users ~2500. Normality should be restored momentarily. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day.
[21:43] <msweeney> hiccup etc
[21:44] <icez> I found something pretty interesting but it's in japanese
[21:44] <msweeney> right, can anyone give me a bit of IRC help?
[21:44] <icez> http://idb.exst.jaxa.jp/edata/02022/199608L02022040/199608L02022040.html
[21:44] <edwardmoore> the man
[21:44] <msweeney> how do I 'register' my username, so that I can send private messages etc?
[21:45] Action: msweeney isn't sure why he put 'register' rather than register
[21:45] <rocketboy> humm - serious rocket
[21:45] <edwardmoore> yeah
[21:45] <edwardmoore> just a lil bit
[21:47] <edwardmoore> steve, what would you say to somone starting out with a balloon with limited tronics experience- gumstix or pic/avr?
[21:48] <rocketboy> depends - software experiance?
[21:48] <msweeney> minimal
[21:48] <msweeney> well, what sort of software?
[21:49] <rocketboy> C unix?
[21:49] <rocketboy> basic?
[21:49] <msweeney> unix/linux yes, a bit of C, no basic. I learn fast, and will be spending this summer programming C and fortran at work
[21:50] <rocketboy> gumstix then
[21:50] <msweeney> i'm good with php/html/css etc etc too, but i guess that won't really help ;-)
[21:51] <edwardmoore> gumstix has web server :)
[21:51] <msweeney> rocketboy, i'm a rocket person too btw. I'd private message but not being registered I can't
[21:51] Action: msweeney yays
[21:51] <edwardmoore> we could get the highest altitude web server in the world
[21:51] <rocketboy> also depend on the depth of pocket
[21:51] Action: msweeney nods. Student pockets
[21:52] <rocketboy> if you have the cash I'd say gumstix - if not (and you have the time) PICs can be very cheap
[21:52] Action: msweeney chokes at the gumstix postage costs
[21:53] <rocketboy> yeah
[21:53] <edwardmoore> aye you could get about 5 pics for the shipping of a gumstix
[21:53] Action: msweeney gets the idea ;-)
[21:53] <edwardmoore> :)
[21:54] <rocketboy> basically a pic system can be as cheap at the prototype board, crystal, resistor and 2 caps
[21:54] <msweeney> anyone know an example US postal address I can put in to test the postage rates?
[21:54] <rocketboy> you can get free sample PICs from microchip
[21:55] <rocketboy> and they pay the postage
[21:55] <edwardmoore> microsoft, redmond, USA
[21:55] Action: msweeney needs a zip
[21:55] <edwardmoore> just below your belt
[21:55] <msweeney> thanks
[21:56] <msweeney> 98052
[21:57] <msweeney> thats more like it - $7
[21:59] <msweeney> then $22 USPS international to the UK
[21:59] <edwardmoore> 12 Pics, free, sample.microchip.com
[22:00] Action: msweeney looks
[22:00] <edwardmoore> as for which one.... there are lots to choose from
[22:00] <msweeney> guidance?
[22:00] <rocketboy> 18F2680
[22:01] <rocketboy> In 24DIP
[22:01] <edwardmoore> agreed
[22:01] <edwardmoore> or 18F425
[22:01] <rocketboy> 24 pin - 0.1inch pitch pins
[22:01] <edwardmoore> they're 40pin
[22:02] <rocketboy> easy to solder - loads of I/O, serial port, analoge ports SPI bus I2C bus
[22:02] <edwardmoore> a UART or USART port is what you want to talk to the GPS
[22:03] <msweeney> so I want 18F2680 & 18F425?
[22:03] <edwardmoore> yeah i'd get samples of both
[22:03] <edwardmoore> you can get a max of 3 of 1 type and 4 lots of 3
[22:03] <edwardmoore> so 12 chips in total
[22:03] <rocketboy> more than enough for loads of ballooning
[22:04] Action: msweeney tuts - need to register with a uni email...after registering with my gmail one
[22:08] <icez> edwardmoore, that could be cool...have a floating website going around the world...accessible only a few minutes every 90 minutes :)
[22:09] <edwardmoore> yep! and a 5bps connection :)
[22:09] <icez> :)
[22:09] <msweeney> haha brilliant. Is there much scope for maintaining position with balloons?
[22:09] <msweeney> i imagine it would be very difficult
[22:10] <icez> I think you'd need something to know the windspeed and in which direction and have little airjets or fans :P
[22:10] <edwardmoore> there ain't a great deal you can do in an 80mph jet-stream :)
[22:11] <msweeney> ok - 18F2680-I/SO or 18F2680-I/SP ?
[22:11] <rocketboy> humm hang on
[22:11] <edwardmoore> SP
[22:12] <msweeney> difference?
[22:12] <edwardmoore> the package
[22:13] <edwardmoore> the SP ones are 'through' hole' pacakges which are easy to solder
[22:13] <edwardmoore> the SO ones are smaller, surface mount ones which are more of a pain to work with
[22:13] <msweeney> oh good, something I can do...solder
[22:14] Action: msweeney was sent on a week long IPC soldering course by work - i have a laminated certificate and everything
[22:14] Action: icez is a born soldering master, too bad I suck at electronics :0
[22:14] Action: msweeney grins
[22:15] <edwardmoore> wow, you'll be fine with balloons
[22:16] <msweeney> doesn't mean im any good at it tho
[22:16] <msweeney> they don't have 18F425
[22:16] <edwardmoore> 2680 it is then
[22:16] <icez> the importance is that the metal touches :)
[22:16] <msweeney> so ive got my 3 2680s, what else?
[22:17] <edwardmoore> you can do 90% the same things on all of them.
[22:17] <edwardmoore> do you have access to general electronic components?
[22:17] <msweeney> nope...if you'd asked me 9 mths ago!
[22:18] <msweeney> maybe I should make friends with the elec eng dept?
[22:18] <icez> lol
[22:19] <icez> my CS dept won't even let me borrow 15 cents parts :)
[22:19] <edwardmoore> well, some prototyping board is good
[22:19] <edwardmoore> rapid electronics will have all this btw. they're good and cheap
[22:19] <edwardmoore> prototyping board or veroboard
[22:19] <edwardmoore> and i think they do quite a good box with resistors and capacitors of various sizes
[22:20] <msweeney> i know them well. I spent four months building electric shizz last year and ordered thousands of bits
[22:20] <edwardmoore> you'll want to power leads- the kind with the 9V battery (called PP3) connections are good
[22:21] Ebola (n=Ebola@host86-136-130-202.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) left irc: ""Don't let worry kill you -- let the church help.""
[22:21] <edwardmoore> and a voltage regulator to change the 9V into a nice regulated 5V for the PIC and the rest of the circuit
[22:21] <edwardmoore> there are lots around, but the ones called '7805' are pretty standard
[22:22] <msweeney> is there an idiots guide to this sort of stuff on the web anywhere?
[22:22] <edwardmoore> 78 - voltage regulaotr, -05 = +5V
[22:22] <edwardmoore> so a 7812 would be a 12V regulator etc
[22:22] <edwardmoore> yeah tons of it
[22:22] <edwardmoore> i'm just doing typing diarohea
[22:22] <msweeney> ha
[22:22] <icez> edwardmoore, cool thanks, now I know something more :)
[22:22] <edwardmoore> and you need an oscillator to act as the clock for the PIC
[22:23] <edwardmoore> say, 20MHz
[22:23] <edwardmoore> and that's about it!
[22:23] <msweeney> right!
[22:23] <edwardmoore> you will however need a programmer.....
[22:23] <edwardmoore> and download MPLAB (the programming software) and C18 (the c compiler) from the microchip website
[22:24] <edwardmoore> and you're all set. the web is filled with tons of stuff from getting an LED blinking all the way up
[22:24] Ebola (n=Ebola@host86-136-130-202.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:24] <msweeney> and how do I get the code onto the pic?
[22:24] <edwardmoore> and as long as you know ohms law, you're sorted
[22:24] Action: msweeney is revising for his electromagnetism module at the moment...blergh
[22:25] <icez> :)
[22:25] <msweeney> gauss' law and volume integrals <£
[22:25] <msweeney> <3
[22:25] <edwardmoore> you type it in C (using c18 downloadable from the microchip website), which you then compile into HEX and program through MPLAB, using a compiler
[22:25] <edwardmoore> sorry, a programmer
[22:25] <edwardmoore> programmers unfortunatelly do cost
[22:25] <msweeney> eek, how much?
[22:26] <rocketboy> I have an old one you can have if you want
[22:26] <edwardmoore> well, microchip make an awesome device called the ICD2, which is great for programming
[22:26] <rocketboy> (free)
[22:26] Action: msweeney would love one!
[22:26] <edwardmoore> lol, ok sod that
[22:26] <rocketboy> its not an ICD2
[22:27] <rocketboy> its just a programmer - but with that you can make an ICD2
[22:27] <rocketboy> or you can get an ICD2 for about £25 on ebay
[22:27] Action: msweeney prefers the (free) option
[22:27] <edwardmoore> good call
[22:27] <icez> duh
[22:27] <icez> :)
[22:27] <msweeney> rocketboy, could email you his mailing address?
[22:28] <rocketboy> yeah - ggod
[22:28] <rocketboy> ggod = good
[22:28] <msweeney> might need your email first tho
[22:28] <edwardmoore> it's difficult to remember
[22:28] <edwardmoore> prepare yourself
[22:28] <rocketboy> ah - its on the ukhas wiki
[22:29] <msweeney> where abouts?
[22:30] <rocketboy> yeah - where abouts - I can't find it either
[22:30] <icez> I don't think it's there
[22:30] <icez> your ebay ID is there though:)
[22:31] <rocketboy> yeah - sensitive about my email addy in public - ebay message me
[22:33] <icez> i'm about to change mine:)
[22:33] <icez> tired of the 300 spam/week :)
[22:33] <msweeney> can't actually figure out how to send email through ebay :s
[22:34] <icez> send a message
[22:34] <edwardmoore> how about you give steve your address and he emails you?
[22:34] Action: msweeney was just about to suggest that
[22:34] <icez> that too
[22:34] <icez> :P
[22:34] <msweeney> martin.sweeney@gmail.com
[22:35] <rocketboy> woho - now for some spam ;-)
[22:35] <msweeney> :gets plenty, gmail is pretty good at killing it for me tho
[22:35] <icez> yup...but still I hate even having the spambox full of spam:)
[22:36] <rocketboy> emaiol sent
[22:36] <rocketboy> email sent
[22:36] Action: msweeney uses customise google extension which removes the (count) bit from the spam bar and makes the text normal weight not bold so it looks like theres no spam in it. sorted!
[22:37] <icez> woh
[22:38] <icez> i sign up to most websites using one of my @icez.org and if I see things I don't like that I can't unsubscribe, I just scrap the email
[22:39] <msweeney> yep, with gmail yuo can use any combination...martinsween.ey is the same as m.a.r.t.i.b etc, so i sign up with lots of dots and then filter it if it gets spammed too much
[22:39] <icez> you can? didn't know that:|
[22:39] <msweeney> yurp
[22:40] <msweeney> you can even do martin.sweeney+specialfilterrule@gmail.com
[22:40] <icez> that I knew
[22:40] <icez> but a lot of email regex checks are too stupid to accept them:)
[22:41] <msweeney> yurp
[22:41] <rocketboy> OK - got your addy - it should be in the post monday
[22:42] <msweeney> thank you very muchly :-)
[22:43] <edwardmoore> did anyone see have i got new for you yesterday/now?
[22:43] <msweeney> rocketboy, how good are Traxa beacons for rocket tracking?
[22:43] <msweeney> edwardmoore, nope?
[22:44] <edwardmoore> nvm. there was a funny bit about rockets
[22:46] <msweeney> so! what other pics should I order before I go to bed?
[22:46] <edwardmoore> dunno!
[22:47] <edwardmoore> 18F232?
[22:47] <edwardmoore> they're all pretty similar, these are just some of the more jack-of-all-trades ones
[22:47] <rocketboy> the traxa beacons are pretty much what we have used on NOVA/XABEN/PEGASUS/MIHAP
[22:48] <rocketboy> MIHAB
[22:48] <edwardmoore> you get some tweaked for, say, motor control, some tweaked more for communications, some better at signal processing, that sort of thing
[22:48] <msweeney> would they be easy to concoct yourself?
[22:48] <rocketboy> - just for data rather than tracking
[22:49] <msweeney> was that easy to send data rather than tracking?
[22:50] <rocketboy> so-so
[22:50] Action: msweeney would like to learn this dark art
[22:50] <edwardmoore> you can always send morse code down if you want to keep it easy
[22:50] <rocketboy> it needs a good receiver and PC program
[22:51] <edwardmoore> steve have you had a chance to play with cocoamodem?
[22:51] <rocketboy> nah - need a mac
[22:51] <rocketboy> thinking of getting one
[22:52] <edwardmoore> :)
[22:52] <edwardmoore> it is rather nice
[22:52] <rocketboy> need somthing cheep - like an old powerbook
[22:52] <edwardmoore> msweeney, there's a sort of morsey type protocol for computers called RTTY- take a look on wikipedia
[22:52] <rocketboy> yeah - that what we use
[22:52] <msweeney> i'd love a mac, its the price issue tho. I'd HAVE to get a macbook pro
[22:53] <edwardmoore> that's what we use, and what the computer software (freely downloadable) converts from beeps into text
[22:53] <msweeney> brillaint
[22:53] <edwardmoore> and the beeps come from the radio receiver and go into the mic input of the laptop
[22:53] <msweeney> and how do you handle more complicated data like GPS coords?
[22:54] <edwardmoore> well they're just numbers
[22:54] <edwardmoore> so the difficulter bit is getting them from the gps
[22:54] <edwardmoore> then you can just send them as rtty like anything else
[22:54] <edwardmoore> so at out end, we get stuff being typed onscreen at sort of typing pace as if it were a cold war film
[22:55] <msweeney> brilliant
[22:55] <edwardmoore> with sputnik type noises coming out of the speakers
[22:55] <edwardmoore> it's awesome
[22:55] <msweeney> wouldnt be too much of a stretch to dynamically plug the numbers into google maps/earth either, I imagine?
[22:55] <edwardmoore> we send lat, long, altitude, distance from the launch site, whether or not we've 'cut down' from the balloon, etc
[22:56] <rocketboy> definatly has a 1960s feel to it - space race and all that
[22:56] <edwardmoore> exactly what jcoxon is doing now
[22:56] <edwardmoore> writing some integrated groun control software
[22:56] <edwardmoore> well, not control, as currently it's all the balloon talking and us listening
[22:57] <msweeney> lovely. My overall plan with this is to get some cool photos of the curvature of the earth (major aim) and then get to the point where its reliable enough to do some research for my final year project, on what ive yet to decide but it could be cool
[22:58] <edwardmoore> well it's a great way of getting 2/3 kilograms of stuff into a space-like environment
[22:58] <msweeney> Mhmm. Cosmic rays immediately sping to mind, I must investigate other options further!
[22:59] <edwardmoore> that sounds cool
[22:59] <edwardmoore> if you can get neutral boyancy, you're on to something
[23:00] <edwardmoore> you could keep it up there for hours
[23:00] Action: msweeney sprints before he can crawl
[23:00] <edwardmoore> lol, yep
[23:00] <edwardmoore> but fun to think about
[23:00] <edwardmoore> u just need a way of venting helium untill you stop going up
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[23:01] <msweeney> mhmm. all sorts of drifting issues tho. Could be interesting going to Paris to pick it up, mind
[23:01] <edwardmoore> well most of the movement happens in the jetstream
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[23:01] <edwardmoore> up at 30km the air is so thin and there's less wind
[23:02] <Laurenceb> Hi all
[23:02] <msweeney> evening
[23:02] <edwardmoore> hi laurence
[23:02] <Laurenceb> I've been experimenting with rogallos
[23:02] <rocketboy> yo lb
[23:03] <edwardmoore> uhuh
[23:03] <Laurenceb> you can make then decend vertically
[23:03] <Laurenceb> by moving the c of g backwards
[23:03] <edwardmoore> yup, stands to reason
[23:03] <Laurenceb> would be very cool for making a landing
[23:03] <edwardmoore> although how stable would that be?
[23:03] <rocketboy> humm - ground radar?
[23:04] <Laurenceb> its very stable, seems to be almost as good as a parachute
[23:04] <Laurenceb> trick is to make it slightly front heavy, so it drifts forwards slightly
[23:04] Action: msweeney thinks its time for bed
[23:05] <msweeney> thanks for all the help, all
[23:05] <edwardmoore> hang on laurence
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[23:06] <edwardmoore> if the trick is to make it slightly front heavy so it drifts forward, isn't that precisely the opposite of taking the c of g back to make it descent vertically?
[23:06] <Laurenceb> brb
[23:07] <jcoxon> i have briefly returned
[23:07] <jcoxon> rocketboy, http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/parawing/design1.jpg
[23:07] <jcoxon> idea for deployment
[23:08] <rocketboy> ok
[23:09] <Laurenceb> edwardmoore, by vertically I mean it drifts down like a parachute
[23:09] <rocketboy> nice idea - I think the cut-down will be ok strain wise
[23:09] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:09] <jcoxon> the more i think about it it will be
[23:09] <rocketboy> could try one using liquid co2
[23:09] <rocketboy> and see if it works/make brittle
[23:10] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:10] <edwardmoore> use it for what?
[23:10] <jcoxon> well its not the end of the world if it breaks
[23:10] <edwardmoore> oh sorry, with you
[23:10] <jcoxon> i'll draw a timeline for my idea for deployment
[23:10] <edwardmoore> well the engineering department are normally good about letting your borrow liquid nitrogen
[23:10] <jcoxon> right i'll off to bed
[23:10] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:11] <Laurenceb> I'm going to get some of my peltier modules running
[23:11] <rocketboy> I was thinking CO2 (-80deg C) rather that N (-200?)
[23:12] <rocketboy> what temp do you think you can get down to with those lb?
[23:12] <Laurenceb> rather chilly, it rarely goes below -55 deg c
[23:12] <edwardmoore> just stick it in a biscuit tin and pour ladle-fulls in untill you get the right temp
[23:12] <Laurenceb> well I've got a 500W power supply
[23:12] <Laurenceb> and the fridge was 50 watt
[23:13] <rocketboy> humm don't think you would be able to pump 500W into it
[23:13] <Laurenceb> hopefully at least -40C
[23:13] <Laurenceb> yes probably 100W max
[23:14] <rocketboy> then you have to get the 100W away
[23:14] <Laurenceb> I got pc cooling fans
[23:14] <Laurenceb> and fans from the origional fridge
[23:14] <rocketboy> water/ice cool the hot side
[23:15] <Laurenceb> I'll cut off the fins on the cold side
[23:15] <rocketboy> I'd bet they just unscrew
[23:15] <Laurenceb> tricky thing will be keeping the temperature constant
[23:16] <rocketboy> err - feedback loop
[23:16] <rocketboy> temp sensor?
[23:16] <Laurenceb> water/ice on the hot side will make it hard to maintain temp
[23:16] <Laurenceb> oh god more hassle :P
[23:17] <Laurenceb> I'll certainly us a 1 wire sensor to monitor it
[23:19] <Laurenceb> I've got some pics to upload in a sec
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[23:28] <Laurenceb> pic on glider wiki page
[23:29] <edwardmoore> laurence have you got the glider back?
[23:30] <Laurenceb> Spoke to the guy who found it yesterday
[23:30] <Laurenceb> should be back by monday
[23:30] <edwardmoore> awesome
[23:30] <edwardmoore> did it land anywhere useful or telling?
[23:32] <Laurenceb> well from where it landed it appears it went down at 15ms^-1
[23:32] <Laurenceb> and spiraled, dragged by wind
[23:32] <rocketboy> gooa go guys - cu 2 morrow
[23:32] <Laurenceb> that matches with the loss of radio signal
[23:32] <Laurenceb> cya
[23:32] <edwardmoore> cya steve
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[23:32] <edwardmoore> ultrhab looks cool btw
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yes, that'll be my next project
[23:34] <Laurenceb> it'll run avr-dos
[23:34] <edwardmoore> i wonder if 40km looks appreciably cooler
[23:34] <Laurenceb> I've been working on the hook design
[23:35] <Laurenceb> the design on the wiki works but isnt 100% reliable
[23:36] <Laurenceb> the shape of the hook needs to be adjusted to stop the loop of line going over the top of the hook
[23:36] <Laurenceb> and catching
[23:36] <edwardmoore> uhuh, i think i see
[23:36] <Laurenceb> anyway I'd better be off cya
[23:36] <edwardmoore> ok, cya
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