highaltitude.log.20070219

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[16:22] <CablitoE> Hello there.
[16:23] <flowolf> hi
[16:24] <CablitoE> Whats up?
[16:24] <CablitoE> You familiar with pulse jets?
[16:25] <flowolf> no :)
[16:25] <flowolf> as I said I'm a complete beginner in this area
[16:25] <CablitoE> Well, we all are, just in varying degrees
[16:26] <CablitoE> I can´t wait for "funding" to become available to my projects
[16:26] <flowolf> the most similar thing to a high altitude ballon that I have used is a football ball :)
[16:27] <flowolf> still I'm interested :)
[16:27] <CablitoE> I am kinda trying not to drift too much from balloons
[16:27] <CablitoE> but the temptation of rocketry is just quite a match
[16:27] <flowolf> rocketry?
[16:28] <flowolf> to launch a balloon? °_°
[16:28] <flowolf> or to move it when it is up?
[16:28] <CablitoE> noooo
[16:28] <CablitoE> Balloon = High altitude, low cost, you are just literaly floating on air.... no fighting involved with forces..... now rocketry
[16:28] <CablitoE> is a whole different scenario
[16:29] <CablitoE> You start by having to contain huge amounts of energy you are "producing" and direct them, to fight the all mighty gravity.
[16:30] <CablitoE> A fight that you ultimatelly lose, but that fight has an apogee.... the question is, how high are you going before you fall down.
[16:30] <CablitoE> We are in the early days of amateur rocketry... from the last 5 years I´ve been reading about these subjects, things changed a LOT.
[16:30] <flowolf> that depends on the energy amount if your rocket is working
[16:31] <CablitoE> 5 years ago I only knew of a few amateurs who had launched balloon payloads
[16:31] <CablitoE> about other few that were building pulse-jets and turbines
[16:31] <flowolf> :)
[16:31] <CablitoE> and nearly no amateur doing rocket engines.
[16:31] <flowolf> do you want to launch a satellite? :)
[16:32] <CablitoE> Well, in theory everyone who plays with ballons or rockets would be more than willing to sit on one and get as far away from earth as possible.... but no... I just want the challenges of it.
[16:33] <CablitoE> I see much entertainment and knowledge to gain in these areas, either for hobby or business.
[16:33] <flowolf> what kind of altitude you plan to get with a rocket?
[16:34] <CablitoE> Businesswise there is a pattern (Seed Ideas from a lunatic) => (small groups start doing it) => (becomes an amateur domain technology) => (someone makes money with it)
[16:34] <CablitoE> Well, I am quite realistic about altitude on rockets.
[16:35] <CablitoE> I mean, my inner self wants to day 60km... but my knowledge in the area and the forces involved remind me of what exactly 60 km upwards mean....
[16:35] <CablitoE> Actually to be honest the altitude is hardly an factor for amateur purposes
[16:36] <flowolf> 60km would require an incredible amount of energy
[16:36] <CablitoE> To be able to actually build an rocket engine, then evolve its design, trying to reach "reliability" and performance, on an amateur budget is an challenge on its own
[16:36] <CablitoE> Remember that everyone who wants to launch stuff into space
[16:36] <CablitoE> BARELLY understand what orbiting means
[16:37] <flowolf> I'm one of those
[16:37] <flowolf> but I will learn :)
[16:37] <CablitoE> and most - even graduated - folks could not even enumerate the factors what would go into the calculation required.
[16:38] <CablitoE> Check this out
[16:38] <CablitoE> I am Brazilian
[16:38] <flowolf> I'm Italian :)
[16:38] <CablitoE> So am I.... well, my godfather was... anyway
[16:39] <CablitoE> You are italian so you obviously know something about Brasil.... WE ARE HUGE
[16:39] <flowolf> yes, I know
[16:39] <flowolf> but that is not obvious :)
[16:40] <CablitoE> Well, italy and brasil are well related.
[16:40] <flowolf> (many italians don't know much about world geography... :-( )
[16:40] <CablitoE> Yes we have a lot of problems, they call us third world, maybe we are, but hey, we have technology... make planes, rockets, the whole thing.... I used to live near our "Nasa" here... I was always there
[16:41] <CablitoE> So, a country, with very large budget, nowhere near american budgets, but you know, tax money goes the same... no pain for anyone....
[16:41] <flowolf> well, we do that too... you know... ESA :)
[16:41] <CablitoE> We cannot launch satelites
[16:41] <CablitoE> our rockets blow
[16:41] <CablitoE> We have excelent technology
[16:41] <CablitoE> but we dont have reliability (and currently no budged or engineers, they all died on the last explosion)
[16:41] <flowolf> too bad :-|
[16:42] <CablitoE> Yet some amateurs are doing rockets with < 10.000 dollars that fly and dont blow
[16:42] <flowolf> that's a whole different thing
[16:42] <CablitoE> The therm "Rocket Science" is getting old - rocketry is entering the amateur domain.
[16:43] <flowolf> satellites need to reach a minumum altitude of 800km
[16:43] <CablitoE> Not really, depends on what kind of orbit you want, 300~400 being most common
[16:43] <flowolf> *minimum
[16:43] <CablitoE> You see, altitude is irrelevant actually
[16:44] <flowolf> 300-400 as too much atmosphere
[16:44] <flowolf> *has
[16:44] <CablitoE> not really, the space station is at 280km
[16:45] <flowolf> the space station uses propulsion, it loses about 100m every day
[16:46] <CablitoE> I am not sure it loses that much a day but it does have some boosts from time to time
[16:46] <CablitoE> not actually to gain height but rather speed.
[16:46] <flowolf> (and it is at 360km)
[16:47] <CablitoE> indeed
[16:47] <CablitoE> 300~400 is LEO
[16:48] <CablitoE> Thats why I dont share the joy on spaceship one.
[16:48] <CablitoE> Sure it went 100km up...
[16:48] <CablitoE> Imagine if he had gone 200km
[16:48] <CablitoE> from there to getting in orbit, there is a whole lot difference.
[16:49] <CablitoE> but
[16:51] <CablitoE> Amateurs are good for technology.... because we can´t access supper alloys or ceramics... nor handle toxic fuels and oxidizers, in the end we look for alternatives that may not have been used in "government budget" projects just because they did not have time to investigate and had money to chose otherwise
[16:52] <flowolf> still getting an altitude of 200km is really hard with low budgets
[16:53] <CablitoE> Spaceship one was not really in the low budget range.
[16:54] <CablitoE> But yes, not the multi-billion dollar budget.
[16:54] <flowolf> do you have any knowledge in physics?
[16:54] <CablitoE> I used too
[16:55] <CablitoE> I am 30 years old... I am starting to forget more things than I learn - lol
[16:55] <flowolf> that's because you are lazy :p
[16:55] <CablitoE> lol
[16:56] <CablitoE> I am currently a programmer.... and raising a family.... my budget is being compromised on that for the last 6 years.... and so is my spare time.
[16:56] <CablitoE> But I tend to study a lot, the MIT openCourse material is always mind boglin
[16:57] <flowolf> I don't know it at all
[16:57] <flowolf> let me see
[16:57] <CablitoE> google for MIT open course
[16:57] <flowolf> cool
[16:57] <CablitoE> yes.... I can hear you said that out loud if you saw the site already
[16:58] <CablitoE> Kinda makes you feel like you have an IQ of an ant compared to those guys, which might actually be true.
[16:59] <flowolf> this is fucking cool
[16:59] <flowolf> no, I don't feel like it
[16:59] <CablitoE> How old are you?
[16:59] <flowolf> of curse any MIT student will study all of that things
[16:59] <flowolf> I'm 20
[17:00] Action: CablitoE remembers of the phrase he saw on a pub long time ago in south africa - "Hire a teenager now while he still knows everything"
[17:00] <flowolf> and I'm a student at the Università degli studi La Sapienza, Rome
[17:00] <CablitoE> just kidding.
[17:01] <flowolf> do you have a college/university degree?
[17:02] <CablitoE> private window>
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[21:32] <Golfgeo> Hi all
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[21:38] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:38] <jcoxon> all quiet on the channel these days
[21:50] <icez> yeah
[21:55] <flowolf> hi
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[00:00] --- Tue Feb 20 2007