highaltitude.log.20070104

[00:05] <LaurenceB> I'll put up a page on MIR balloons soon
[00:05] <jcoxon> cool
[00:07] <LaurenceB> okay I'm off
[00:07] <LaurenceB> cya
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[10:40] <jcoxon> right i've posted to the openwrt forum about my payloda
[10:40] <jcoxon> payload*
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[11:48] <LaurenceB> hi jcoxon
[11:48] <jcoxon> hey LaurenceB
[11:49] <LaurenceB> I was just wondering what college youre at?
[11:50] <LaurenceB> as when I came down last year I got a room at Churchill
[11:50] <LaurenceB> just rang up
[11:51] <jcoxon> i'm in St Catharine's
[11:51] <jcoxon> i have a set in college - so in theory have a spare room
[11:52] <LaurenceB> spare room? sounds better than oxford!
[11:53] <jcoxon> well i share a set - so we have 2 rooms and a living room
[11:53] <jcoxon> however my "set mate" is skiing so his room is open and so is the living room
[11:54] <LaurenceB> sounds awesome
[11:54] <jcoxon> its really nice
[11:54] <jcoxon> however tis a long way from the bathroom
[11:54] <Weiss> sets are nice
[11:54] <jcoxon> that puts people off
[11:55] <LaurenceB> we have similar sets at oxford but not as good as that
[11:55] <Weiss> you get loads of space, but effectively don't pay for it
[11:55] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:55] <jcoxon> my set is in main court of catz, wooden floorboards, open fire
[11:55] <jcoxon> hasn't been done up in years
[11:56] <LaurenceB> well as long as theres a bed and walls I'll be happy :)
[11:56] <Weiss> the one i had in my second year was like that
[11:56] <Weiss> unfortunately they've done that whole block up now, so it's expensive and not as good
[11:57] <LaurenceB> weiss are you at cambridge then?
[11:57] <Weiss> yep
[11:58] <LaurenceB> involved in the nova project?
[11:59] <Weiss> not really - i just lurk in here
[11:59] <Weiss> it's quite interesting
[12:00] <LaurenceB> jcoxon, thanks, I'll email you my mobile number, so we can meet up on saturday afternoon/evening
[12:02] <LaurenceB> I'll come down on the train , guess you'll be very busy unloading your stuff if you're arriving on sat.
[12:02] <jcoxon> should be finished by about 3.30
[12:02] <jcoxon> also have to collect the helium tank
[12:02] <LaurenceB> I'll probably go shoping, there's some model plane shops in cambridge :)
[12:03] <jcoxon> okay cool
[12:03] <jcoxon> just so you know Catz is next door college on the left (if you face it) from Kings
[12:03] <jcoxon> it doesn't have a "quad" its open on the street side with large iron gates
[12:04] <LaurenceB> sorry don't know cambridge very well, I'll look on google earth
[12:04] <jcoxon> np - you'll know when you see it
[12:16] <LaurenceB> okay I've emailed you my number
[12:16] <jcoxon> thanks
[12:17] <LaurenceB> this stupid guy on ebay who sells li poly batteries has emailed me to say hes run out of them
[12:18] <LaurenceB> he's going to get negative feedback if he's not careful
[12:19] <LaurenceB> he now tells me hes got one left he can send me that was going to another customer lol
[12:21] <jcoxon> grrrr - stupid gps
[12:21] <jcoxon> just not getting a lock
[12:22] <LaurenceB> I have collections in a week or so :(
[12:22] <LaurenceB> should really be revising....
[12:36] <LaurenceB> okay I'm off to do just that
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[13:54] <jcoxon> woooohoooo
[13:54] <jcoxon> got a gps lock finally
[13:56] <defy> what was it>?
[13:57] <jcoxon> i adapted a active antenna
[13:58] <jcoxon> the antenna must work as its outside
[13:58] <defy> what were you trying before? passive?
[13:58] <jcoxon> and the gps unit was inside
[13:58] <jcoxon> i did have a passive
[13:58] <defy> my gpsstix has been great lately, its been keeping lock inside
[13:58] <jcoxon> this wasn't a gpsstix
[13:58] <defy> yea, just a oem module?
[13:59] <jcoxon> this is the jupiter unit from ebay for 10
[13:59] <jcoxon> pounds
[13:59] <defy> sweet
[13:59] <jcoxon> if it works can't really complain
[13:59] <defy> yeah
[14:02] <jcoxon> now that i have a lock it looks like i;m going to have to rewrite my gps parser
[14:03] <jcoxon> to use the GPGGA sentence instead
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[17:03] <jcoxon> :(
[17:03] <jcoxon> i just killed my camera
[17:03] <icez> :(
[17:03] <jcoxon> indeed
[17:04] <jcoxon> can't really afford to replace it with the same type
[17:04] <jcoxon> will have to downgrade
[17:46] <icez> doh.
[17:46] <icez> got my samples from TI, 90% of them are SMTs
[17:46] <icez> how could I not have checked that..
[17:47] <jcoxon> oh dear
[17:47] <icez> they are tinier than tiny
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[20:25] <jcoxon> :-D welcome to #highaltitude
[20:26] <freakazoid> hi there
[20:29] <jcoxon> its a little quiet in here right now but as some of us are planning a launch for sunday there probably will be some chatter later
[20:39] <icez> some of us are not doing anything at all too
[20:39] <icez> :/
[20:40] <jcoxon> icez, i'm relying on you to issue the !position command occasionally :-p
[20:40] <icez> ok:P
[20:51] <jcoxon> bbl
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[21:53] <LaurenceB> payload is now ready! :-)
[21:53] <LaurenceB> Lithium batteries arrived this morning
[21:54] <LaurenceB> takes one photo every 20 seconds, was going to be every 15, but I'm not sure how long the camera will last
[21:55] <freakazoid> they will not last that long if they are very cold
[21:56] <LaurenceB> good point, but payload has 2.5cm polystyrene around it and uses about 1 watt
[21:56] <LaurenceB> - this is MiHAB3
[21:57] <freakazoid> ah, ok
[21:58] <LaurenceB> photos on the wiki
[21:59] <freakazoid> heh
[22:00] <freakazoid> "harmless experiment"
[22:00] <freakazoid> we never felt the need to put that on JP Aerospace stuff or our rockets
[22:00] <freakazoid> just "reward if found, please call ..."
[22:00] <LaurenceB> you're from jp aerospace?
[22:00] <freakazoid> I've worked with them
[22:01] <freakazoid> though not very recently
[22:01] <LaurenceB> what do you think of their airship to orbit idea?
[22:01] <freakazoid> I think it's really neat
[22:01] <LaurenceB> I don't think it would work
[22:01] <freakazoid> a lot of people don't, but the air force thinks it will enough to slap a secrecy order on it
[22:02] <freakazoid> or rather, they would have if JP hadn't published it as fast as he had
[22:02] <LaurenceB> I reacon the air molecules will just be absorbed by the airship fabric rather that rebounding
[22:03] <LaurenceB> inless its at very low angle of incidence
[22:03] <LaurenceB> Ie highly wedge shaped airship
[22:03] <LaurenceB> which is impractical
[22:03] <freakazoid> dunno
[22:03] <freakazoid> they know a lot more about airships than I do
[22:05] <LaurenceB> also dont see how they're going to get the necessary thrust
[22:05] <LaurenceB> I prefer the rotovator idea
[22:06] <freakazoid> yeah, JP was pretty vague about thrust
[22:06] <freakazoid> at his talk at Space Access
[22:06] <freakazoid> he just said some sort of electric drive
[22:06] <LaurenceB> its basically impossible to build at the moment, but a lot better than a space elevator
[22:07] <freakazoid> Yeah, Gerry Nordley is really into rotating tethers
[22:07] <LaurenceB> you could use a rotovator from a high alt balloon, with a small rocket booster, like armadillo aerospace are building, to go between the balloon and the rotovator
[22:07] <LaurenceB> at it becomes more feasible
[22:08] <freakazoid> actually, if I had a rotovator I wouldn't use a balloon at all
[22:08] <freakazoid> balloons are slaves to the weather
[22:08] <freakazoid> having been to a bunch of JP's balloon flights that never quite reached the target altitude before going out of the flight range, I've found a new appreciation for rockets :)
[22:08] <LaurenceB> you cant really have it going all the way through the atmosphere tho as there would be too much drag
[22:08] <freakazoid> just popping above the atmosphere is easy
[22:09] <freakazoid> you don't need to spend much time in the atmosphere
[22:09] <freakazoid> and anyway given that amateurs have already done it, it's a solved problem
[22:10] <LaurenceB> I think the wikipedia article on rotovators says a mach 10 rotovator is buildable
[22:10] <freakazoid> and anyway I'm already involved in building a rocket that will get you to a rotovator
[22:10] <LaurenceB> and its not horrendously hard
[22:10] <LaurenceB> as you just proved lol
[22:10] <freakazoid> I'm not that big a fan of expensive infrastructure
[22:10] <freakazoid> people always seem to want government subsidies to build it
[22:11] <freakazoid> commercially operated rotovators, on the other hand, would be great
[22:12] <LaurenceB> I've been thinking about space launch techniques for ages :-)
[22:13] <LaurenceB> I thought of building a long wire that carries a huge current such that it levitates in earths magnetic field
[22:13] <freakazoid> You might find a trip to the US for the Space Access conference in March to be worthwhile
[22:13] <LaurenceB> but its impossible
[22:13] <LaurenceB> - not a trip to space acess
[22:13] <freakazoid> heh
[22:14] <freakazoid> yeah I figured that's not what you meant
[22:14] <LaurenceB> yes, I'm not enourmously rich
[22:14] <LaurenceB> I'm just a physics student
[22:14] <LaurenceB> plane tickets are expensive
[22:15] <icez> get a few large balloons and some fans and a lawn chair:)
[22:15] <LaurenceB> lol
[22:15] <icez> someone did that
[22:15] <icez> without the fans
[22:15] <icez> :/
[22:16] <freakazoid> it's called cluster ballooning
[22:16] <freakazoid> and you don't need fans for it
[22:16] <freakazoid> you just need to have ballooning skills
[22:16] <icez> lol:/
[22:16] <freakazoid> and carry lots of ballast
[22:16] <LaurenceB> if was just possible to create a constant force in one direction without too much energy
[22:16] <freakazoid> he had waaay too much lift and no ballast
[22:16] <LaurenceB> you could float into space
[22:16] <icez> he had water jugs as ballasts and a pellet gun
[22:17] <freakazoid> yes, that would be nice
[22:17] <freakazoid> but rockets aren't non-doable
[22:17] <freakazoid> they're just non-doable by the government on any scale that will get civilians into space
[22:17] <freakazoid> in any significant number anyway
[22:17] <LaurenceB> I think a constant force machine defies the first law on thermodynamics
[22:17] <LaurenceB> what a shame
[22:18] <icez> laws are made to be broken;)
[22:18] <LaurenceB> some guy though he had come up with one in a recent newscientist article
[22:18] <icez> I'm pretty sure someone somewhere sometime will find a way to go to space very cheaply
[22:18] <freakazoid> thrusting against the Earth's magnetic field isn't a problem
[22:18] <LaurenceB> using microwaves, I though of something similar
[22:18] <LaurenceB> but it seems he was mistaken
[22:19] <freakazoid> we're working on incremental cost improvements right now
[22:19] <freakazoid> one factor of 10 at a time
[22:19] <LaurenceB> do you have a website for this rocketry work you're doing?
[22:19] <freakazoid> http://masten-space.com/
[22:19] <freakazoid> you've talked to Michael Mealling before probably
[22:20] <icez> oh you work there?
[22:20] <freakazoid> I'm the CIO
[22:20] <icez> i love your work :]
[22:21] <freakazoid> I'm glad to hear that!
[22:21] <LaurenceB> this is amazing
[22:21] <LaurenceB> how come I haven't heard of you before
[22:21] <freakazoid> there are a lot of people in the US who are dedicating their lives to opening up a new frontier
[22:21] <LaurenceB> I look on space.com all the time
[22:21] <freakazoid> We've been on space.com
[22:21] <freakazoid> http://www.google.com/search?q=masten+site%3Aspace.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[22:21] <icez> michael comes on #space sometimes
[22:22] <icez> but not here:P
[22:22] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: Come to Space Access in March!
[22:22] <icez> where is it?
[22:22] <freakazoid> icez: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
[22:23] <icez> REALLY?!
[22:23] <freakazoid> Oh, you're in Phoenix
[22:23] Action: icez jumps of excitement
[22:23] <icez> finally something nearby!
[22:23] <freakazoid> It's been nearby for YEARS
[22:23] <LaurenceB> I'd love to come, could be tricky tho, unlike for icez
[22:23] <freakazoid> http://space-access.org/
[22:23] <icez> it's always been in AZ?
[22:23] <freakazoid> yeah you need overseas plane tickets
[22:24] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: Are you in the UK?
[22:24] <freakazoid> icez: Yeah, it's always been in Phoenix or Scottsdale
[22:24] <LaurenceB> yes, derbyshire
[22:24] <icez> and I never heard of it:(
[22:24] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: So a visa should be no problem
[22:24] <icez> freakazoid, are you in AZ too?
[22:24] <freakazoid> icez: Well, it's not too late to come!
[22:24] <freakazoid> icez: Nope, I'm in California
[22:24] <icez> ok.
[22:24] <freakazoid> icez: But I will be there in March!
[22:24] <icez> ok:)
[22:25] <freakazoid> SA07 is at the Grace Inn March 22-24
[22:25] <icez> good.
[22:25] <icez> I
[22:25] <icez> I'll write that down and bookmark
[22:26] <freakazoid> $100 in advance, $30 student rate, $20 at the door
[22:26] <freakazoid> err $120
[22:26] <LaurenceB> sorry for my ignorance, but how far have you got with the project?
[22:26] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: We're ready to do hold-down tests
[22:26] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: Rain has been delaying those a bit
[22:26] <LaurenceB> where do you get the engines from?
[22:26] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: As well as some revenue opportunities
[22:27] <icez> mmm, what do they talk about or do?
[22:27] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: We designed them ourselves and farmed out the machining
[22:27] <icez> the website isn't really..fancy
[22:27] <freakazoid> icez: Everything is about cheap, private access to space.
[22:27] <icez> :P
[22:27] <freakazoid> icez: orbital mechanics, new engine designs, proposed vehicle designs, and lots of talks on space business
[22:28] <icez> oh
[22:28] <freakazoid> icez: ESA comes, NASA comes, some guys from the British space agency
[22:28] <freakazoid> and a bunch of people with space businesses
[22:28] <icez> well
[22:28] <LaurenceB> British space industry?
[22:28] <freakazoid> Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven will almost certainly be there too
[22:28] <LaurenceB> didn't know there was one
[22:28] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: Well, they're from the UK and they work for the ESA
[22:29] <LaurenceB> I was working at oxford uni space instruments lab over the summer
[22:29] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: but I think they also do UK national stuff
[22:29] <LaurenceB> on IR filters
[22:30] <freakazoid> icez: Yeah the web site sucks
[22:30] <LaurenceB> but there doesnt seem to be much space stuff in the uk
[22:30] <freakazoid> icez: pretty much *all* the work goes into organizing the conference.. advertising is almost entirely word of mouth
[22:31] <icez> so I need to find 250$ :p
[22:31] <freakazoid> icez: $250??
[22:31] <icez> well
[22:31] <freakazoid> icez: you can crash on the floor of my room if you want
[22:31] <icez> $100 prior, 30$ student rate, and the $120 door fee?
[22:31] <freakazoid> nooo
[22:31] <freakazoid> those are different rates
[22:31] <freakazoid> if you are a student, it's $30
[22:31] <icez> only 30$?:P
[22:31] <freakazoid> if you register in advance and you're not a student, it's $100
[22:32] <freakazoid> if you register at the door, it's $120
[22:32] <freakazoid> you pay one of those rates, not all of them :)
[22:32] <icez> oh
[22:32] Action: icez 's glad to be in school.
[22:32] <icez> :P
[22:32] <LaurenceB> $30 is nothing, but a plane to the us will be very expensive I think, but I'm going to look into it
[22:32] <freakazoid> I *think* you must register in advance to get the student rate
[22:32] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: And the flight to the west coast of the US will be loooong
[22:32] <freakazoid> actually Phoenix isn't quite west coast
[22:33] <LaurenceB> oh well I can look at the view
[22:33] <freakazoid> but it might as well be with its distance from New York or Chicago
[22:34] <freakazoid> Phoenix is at least a major enough city that you can probably get there with two flights from the UK
[22:34] <freakazoid> depending on how far you are from a major city in the UK
[22:35] <LaurenceB> I live about 10 miles from an international airport
[22:35] <freakazoid> ah, great
[22:35] <LaurenceB> which is very annoying as I cant lauch balloons from my house
[22:35] <icez> lol
[22:35] <freakazoid> I live less than an hour's drive from three international airports
[22:35] <freakazoid> I have to drive six hours to do balloon flights :(
[22:36] <icez> I'm circled by Phoenix International, and 3 municipal airports
[22:36] <icez> I can't launch a baseball if I wanted to
[22:36] <icez> :P
[22:36] <freakazoid> yeah Phoenix is great to fly into in a general aviation plane
[22:36] <LaurenceB> yes I have to go to cambridge to launch
[22:36] <freakazoid> I did that one year for Space Access
[22:36] <LaurenceB> which is about 3 hours drive
[22:36] <icez> my dad is an aircraft structure engineer at one of those airport
[22:37] <freakazoid> I can at least do engine tests about an hour and a half from my house
[22:37] <freakazoid> icez: are you at university?
[22:37] <LaurenceB> you test engines at your house??
[22:37] <icez> freakazoid, college
[22:37] <freakazoid> no, about an hour and a half away
[22:37] <freakazoid> icez: cool
[22:37] <freakazoid> icez: register now!
[22:37] <freakazoid> icez: for Space Access!
[22:37] <LaurenceB> oh an house and a half from your house sorry doh
[22:38] <icez> well I'll take a few days to think about it :P
[22:38] <LaurenceB> I'll definately think about it as well
[22:38] <icez> I really need to get out of the house;)
[22:39] <freakazoid> if you want to crash at the hotel I'm sure we can find you someone's floor to sleep on
[22:39] <freakazoid> probably mine
[22:39] <LaurenceB> yes icez you always seem to be on here :-)
[22:39] <icez> :(
[22:39] <icez> I'm looking for other things to do:P
[22:39] <LaurenceB> I was planning on making a page on MIR balloons for the wiki
[22:40] <LaurenceB> but cant be bothered now
[22:40] <icez> freakazoid, when you said CIO, what's that?:)
[22:40] <freakazoid> Chief Infrastructure Officer
[22:40] <freakazoid> or Chief Information Officer
[22:40] <freakazoid> take your pick :)
[22:40] <icez> ok:)
[22:40] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: you could do a presentation on ukhas
[22:41] <LaurenceB> basically a MIR balloon launched from the uk will work if its 10m diameter and made from 10um plastic
[22:41] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: It's usually pretty easy to squeeze in 10 minute talks
[22:41] <LaurenceB> yes that would be cool
[22:41] <freakazoid> ERPS has done a presentation several years
[22:41] <LaurenceB> ERPS?
[22:42] <freakazoid> The Experimental Rocket Propulsion Society in California
[22:42] <LaurenceB> cool
[22:42] <icez> I wonder if the AZ high-powered rocket society (or something like that) will be there
[22:42] <LaurenceB> Have you heard of MIR balloons?
[22:42] <freakazoid> John Carmack will be there
[22:42] <freakazoid> Nope
[22:42] <icez> I need to tell them that their "club" is too hard to get into
[22:42] <icez> :P
[22:42] <LaurenceB> its a balloon that works off the ir nightglow from the earth
[22:42] <freakazoid> icez: Yeah, people have been complaining about that for a long time, but they do a great job setting up the conference
[22:43] <freakazoid> icez: it was basically one guy doing the whole conference
[22:43] <LaurenceB> just putting some food on brb
[22:43] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: Wow! And presumably during the day off the sun?
[22:43] <icez> I meant the rocket society here
[22:43] <freakazoid> Oh
[22:44] <icez> they're the only nearby place I could launch my little rockets legally :)
[22:44] <icez> but they have so much requirements and all
[22:44] <freakazoid> ah, that kind of rocket club
[22:44] <freakazoid> just to be a member?
[22:44] <freakazoid> that's weird
[22:44] <icez> yeah.
[22:44] <freakazoid> the clubs up here have no special requirements to launch unless you want to do large motors
[22:44] <freakazoid> or is that what you were talking about?
[22:44] <freakazoid> Tripoli and NAR have certification requirements for levels 1, 2, and 3
[22:44] <icez> yeah.
[22:45] <icez> they require tripoli for large rockets too
[22:45] <freakazoid> those are nationwide
[22:45] <icez> but I don't do large rockets really
[22:45] <freakazoid> you won't find easier than that
[22:45] <freakazoid> they don't have requirements for rockets below level 1 do they?
[22:45] <LaurenceB> freakazoid: yes the balloon has to remain in the stratosphere at night, so is designed primarily to work off the ir nighglow of around 300w/m2
[22:46] <LaurenceB> there is a minimum size below which it cannot generate enough lift
[22:46] <icez> they mostly have large things like http://www.ahpra.org/saturn06.jpg
[22:46] <freakazoid> wow, that's an awesome rocket
[22:46] <freakazoid> I helped with the GoFast space flight that CSXT did, btw
[22:47] <LaurenceB> i'm afraid I've never really done much with rockets, my best attempts were with d motors
[22:47] <icez> my best rocket probably made 1200-2000 feets only :)
[22:47] <LaurenceB> although I now have a 2.4ghz camera
[22:47] <LaurenceB> for a rocket
[22:49] <LaurenceB> haven't flown it yet tho
[22:49] <icez> C motors here
[22:50] <freakazoid> I got my level 1 certification
[22:51] <LaurenceB> Freakazoid, what are you powering your rockets with lox/kerosene?
[22:53] <freakazoid> lox/isopropyl alcohol
[22:53] <freakazoid> we will eventually go to kerosene
[22:53] <freakazoid> when we need the performance
[22:53] <LaurenceB> interesting, why that choice?
[22:54] <freakazoid> it doesn't coke in the cooling passages and it evaporates
[22:54] <freakazoid> makes it less likely we'll have stuff sitting around in the engine
[22:54] <LaurenceB> ah
[22:54] <LaurenceB> are you using turbepumps then?
[22:54] <freakazoid> not for the current vehicle
[22:55] <LaurenceB> just pressurized tank
[22:55] <freakazoid> we are planning on using liquid piston pumps for the next generation
[22:55] <LaurenceB> ah I've heard of these
[22:55] <freakazoid> yes, current design uses regulated pressurant
[22:55] <freakazoid> flometrics is doing our pumps for the next vehicle
[22:55] <LaurenceB> how are they powered?
[22:55] <icez> freakazoid, I remember seeing your lunar vehicle having troubles at a New Mexico conference a while ago
[22:55] <freakazoid> initially they will be powered by pressurant gas
[22:56] <freakazoid> icez: We didn't have any trouble because we weren't flying yet... that was Armadillo
[22:56] <freakazoid> they did very well
[22:56] <freakazoid> they will be at Space Access in March
[22:56] <icez> really?
[22:56] <LaurenceB> yes I was the video on the armadillo website
[22:56] <LaurenceB> -saw
[22:56] <icez> with the 4 big balls?:)
[22:57] <LaurenceB> yes that was them
[22:57] <icez> :/
[22:57] <freakazoid> yes
[22:57] <freakazoid> they have big balls
[22:57] <LaurenceB> I think 2 were lox and 2 kerosene
[22:57] <freakazoid> they use ethanol
[22:57] <LaurenceB> okay
[22:58] <LaurenceB> they always seem to have slightly amateurish engines
[22:58] <LaurenceB> held together by long bolts
[22:59] <LaurenceB> It's impressive, but I would have expected them to progress to something else
[22:59] <LaurenceB> or is that engine design actually good
[23:00] <freakazoid> they design engines mostly by brute force
[23:00] <LaurenceB> I've seen they do many trials
[23:00] <freakazoid> they don't have people like Jon and Ian available to them
[23:01] <LaurenceB> wasnt one of their members responsible for doom or something
[23:02] <LaurenceB> I'm not a fan of stuff like that
[23:02] <LaurenceB> so I don't know
[23:02] <freakazoid> John Carmack wrote Doom
[23:02] <freakazoid> that's where all the money comes fromo
[23:02] <LaurenceB> cool
[23:02] <icez> ohh so it is the same one
[23:02] <LaurenceB> unfortunately it means he doesn't have any of mine
[23:03] <icez> that means I sponsored Armadillo without knowing
[23:03] <icez> woops
[23:03] <freakazoid> heh
[23:03] <freakazoid> if you want to sponsor us, buy a payload
[23:03] <icez> I was thinking about that too
[23:03] <freakazoid> we can't touch the money until we actually fly it
[23:03] <icez> but I'd like to find/make something useful to put inside
[23:04] <freakazoid> it's all in an escrow account and refundable if we don't fly by a certain date
[23:04] <freakazoid> you'll have some time to do that :)
[23:04] <icez> yeah mealing told me everything about it :)
[23:04] <freakazoid> ah cool
[23:04] <freakazoid> we'll all be at Space Access
[23:04] <freakazoid> so you can meet our engineers
[23:05] <freakazoid> also if you're interested in an internship that would be a good place to sign up :)
[23:05] <LaurenceB> if you make a payload, will it have to all fit inside some fixed enclosure?
[23:05] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: for the sodasat payloads, yet
[23:05] <freakazoid> err yes
[23:05] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: but there is a slightly more expensive option that allows larger payloads
[23:05] <LaurenceB> hmm makes it tricky to design anything useful
[23:06] <freakazoid> 1kg custom payload is $250
[23:06] <LaurenceB> but guess there's no other way
[23:06] <LaurenceB> hey not bad
[23:06] <icez> maybe if I lose enough weight I can fit inside one of those
[23:06] <icez> :P
[23:06] <freakazoid> Oh, but you have to be a US citizen right now
[23:06] <icez> you do?
[23:06] <LaurenceB> thats about the price of one of my balloon payloads
[23:07] <LaurenceB> you have to be a us citizen to fly a payload?
[23:07] <freakazoid> icez: Yeah, I am not sure why flying someone else's payload falls under ITAR, but I guess it's enough to make it too complicated right now
[23:07] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: for now, yes
[23:07] <icez> boo:/
[23:07] <freakazoid> LaurenceB: Michael knows why a lot better than I do
[23:07] <icez> I'm not a citizen:P
[23:07] <freakazoid> Oh, I didn't realize that
[23:07] <freakazoid> where are you from?
[23:08] <icez> quebec
[23:08] <icez> :)
[23:08] <LaurenceB> hello my name is osama bin laden, I would like to fly a payload
[23:08] <LaurenceB> will not work unfortunately for him
[23:08] <freakazoid> well, Canada is about as easy as it gets when it comes to ITAR, so it'll probably be first on the list of countries we can fly payloads for
[23:08] <freakazoid> along with UK and AU
[23:09] <LaurenceB> yes the space instruments lab has problems with itar
[23:09] <freakazoid> there will almost certainly be a talk or two about ITAR at the Space Access conference
[23:09] <freakazoid> plus it gets mentioned a lot during other talks
[23:09] <freakazoid> the US and UK laws are almost identical regarding ITAR
[23:09] <icez> it's like the IRS of technological advancements ;)?
[23:10] <freakazoid> and CA
[23:10] <freakazoid> heh
[23:10] <freakazoid> something like that
[23:10] <freakazoid> it's been a fairly serious impediment
[23:10] <freakazoid> but not so much so that we're not making progress
[23:11] <icez> well of course
[23:11] <icez> I think private industries can do a lot better than NASA at a lot of things
[23:11] <freakazoid> It's probably worse for Canadians and UKians than for Americans
[23:11] <freakazoid> We have more people
[23:12] <LaurenceB> how do you raise funds?
[23:12] <LaurenceB> apart from payloads
[23:12] <freakazoid> right now we're self-funded
[23:12] <freakazoid> the CEO and a couple of other investors
[23:12] <freakazoid> we are working on some revenue projects right now
[23:13] <freakazoid> But I'm not sure if we've gotten any payments yet
[23:13] <LaurenceB> I see the merchandise on the site
[23:13] <freakazoid> are you guys on the arocket mailing list?
[23:13] <icez> the cafepress shop :)
[23:13] <freakazoid> I have no idea if we've made any money on that
[23:13] <freakazoid> probably <$100 total :)
[23:13] <icez> there was a few hours of talk about it on #space once
[23:14] <icez> arocket? nope
[23:14] <LaurenceB> arocket?
[23:14] <icez> I think the only person here really into rockets is rocketboy
[23:15] <freakazoid> http://www.arocketry.net/
[23:15] <freakazoid> also check out http://public.blueorigin.com/index.html
[23:15] <LaurenceB> icez is that judging from my stupid questions?
[23:16] <icez> LaurenceB, I've never seen any stupid questions from you:P
[23:16] <LaurenceB> I just find balloons interesting as its easy to get to 25km or more
[23:17] <icez> we get runaway balloons from new mexico here
[23:17] <LaurenceB> with rockets its a lot harder to get that ar
[23:17] <icez> and it's always on the news as a UFO
[23:17] <icez> lol.
[23:17] <LaurenceB> oh ufos
[23:17] <LaurenceB> I've done a few ufo scares
[23:17] <icez> rockets are hungry little beasts
[23:20] <icez> talking about cheap space access, there's a movie about something related coming up this year;)
[23:20] <icez> The Astronaut Farmer
[23:20] <LaurenceB> wtf??
[23:20] <LaurenceB> farming?
[23:20] <icez> well
[23:21] <icez> it's a farmer that builds his own rocket to go into space
[23:21] <icez> with his 15-year-old son as the mission controller on the ground;)
[23:22] <freakazoid> Yeah I saw the ad for that
[23:22] <freakazoid> At first I thought they were talking about Brian Walker (who goes to Space Access)
[23:23] <freakazoid> I'm still sure he was the inspiration for a lot of it
[23:23] <freakazoid> The centrifuge is definitely taken from Brian Walker's story
[23:23] <freakazoid> http://www.rocketguy.com/
[23:23] <icez> :)
[23:23] <freakazoid> He might have even provided it for them
[23:23] <icez> who wouldn't like to in space?!:]
[23:24] <freakazoid> which would explain why it's even the same color as his
[23:25] <freakazoid> http://www.rocketguy.com/rocket/052704_centrifuge.html
[23:25] <freakazoid> actually I guess it wasn't hte same color
[23:25] <icez> wow
[23:26] <freakazoid> no updates from 2004, and I think I didn't see him at last year's Space Access
[23:26] <freakazoid> So I have no idea what's been happening with him lately
[23:26] <icez> hopefully nothing serious
[23:27] <freakazoid> well, I doubt if it would have anything to do with his safety
[23:27] <freakazoid> but perhaps his finances or his time
[23:27] <freakazoid> or his emotional state
[23:28] <icez> hydrogen peroxide
[23:28] <freakazoid> yeah, blue origin uses peroxide too
[23:28] <icez> anti-bacterial thrusters!
[23:28] <icez> :)
[23:28] <freakazoid> kind of validates the approach if you ask me
[23:30] <LaurenceB> grrr I think I've lost an origional issue of the lion the witch and the wardrobe
[23:30] <icez> are you guys thinking about manned flights for the far (or near) future?
[23:31] <freakazoid> yeah, that's all we care about long term
[23:32] <freakazoid> we want to open a new frontier
[23:33] <icez> the new west :]
[23:34] <freakazoid> exactly
[23:34] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host86-141-79-216.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[23:36] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host86-141-79-216.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:36] <LaurenceB> pc crashed
[23:37] <freakazoid> that hasn't happened to me in a long time
[23:38] <icez> me too
[23:38] <icez> :p
[23:38] <LaurenceB> yes I've lost this old book thats worth£2000 on ebay
[23:38] <icez> woh
[23:39] <freakazoid> that sucks
[23:40] <LaurenceB> why someone would want to buy it I dont know
[23:43] <LaurenceB> found it at a car boot sale
[23:44] <LaurenceB> my parents are into that sort of thing
[23:46] <LaurenceB> I should finally have a li poly battery tomorrow
[23:46] <LaurenceB> and can start some flight tests of my motorised glider, weather permitting
[23:47] <LaurenceB> by sunday all the components of the high alt glider will have been flight tested
[23:48] <freakazoid> yay! lipoly!
[23:48] <LaurenceB> apart from the radio which will be similar to the one on MiHAB2
[23:48] <LaurenceB> lipolys are amazing
[23:49] <LaurenceB> altho I've never used one before
[23:50] <LaurenceB> http://jnaudin.free.fr/
[23:50] <LaurenceB> theres some good lipoly stuff here
[23:51] <jcoxon> hey LaurenceB
[23:51] <LaurenceB> along with more um deranged stuff
[23:51] <LaurenceB> hey jcoxon
[23:52] <jcoxon> blew my camera up :(
[23:52] <LaurenceB> this page is truly mad
[23:52] <LaurenceB> http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/index.htm
[23:52] <jcoxon> so no 6MP pictures on sunday
[23:52] <LaurenceB> oh no what will you do?
[23:52] <jcoxon> i've got a spare
[23:52] <jcoxon> but it isn't as good
[23:52] <jcoxon> am wiring it up now
[23:53] <freakazoid> I'm not sure I want to get my battery information from a site that is looking for a perpetual motion machine
[23:53] <LaurenceB> I only have 256mb flash card
[23:53] <LaurenceB> so 330 pictures approx
[23:53] <LaurenceB> yes the site is very amusing ;)
[23:53] <jcoxon> i'm getting a 1gig card tomorrow
[23:53] <LaurenceB> cool
[23:53] <jcoxon> but the battery will run out before it fills that
[23:54] <LaurenceB> yes I'm having a photo every 20 secs
[23:54] <jcoxon> thats quite a bit
[23:54] <LaurenceB> and I estimate 1.5 to 2 hours battery life
[23:54] <jcoxon> saw rocketboy today
[23:55] <jcoxon> i'm now lead payload as i'm doing the cutdown
[23:55] <LaurenceB> hope your code works this time around
[23:55] <jcoxon> might make you review it on sat evening
[23:56] <LaurenceB> the camera should use up the card as the batteries run out
[23:56] <LaurenceB> hopefully it will have reached apogee by this point
[23:57] <LaurenceB> on Mihab2 the camera was turned off between shots
[23:58] <LaurenceB> After further expts it seems that this did not give time for the contrast and exposure to be correctly set
[23:58] <LaurenceB> which along with the camera being set in interpolated mode explains why the pics were a bit lacking in quality
[00:00] --- Fri Jan 5 2007