highaltitude.log.20061226

[00:03] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[00:06] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:27] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-203-216.47-151.net24.it) left irc: "*** E' solo l'urto con un iceberg, che vuoi che sia, questa è una nave inaffondabile. *** 75$/barile"
[01:28] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-37-91.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[01:57] Ebola (n=Ebola@host81-152-204-231.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: ""Don't let worry kill you -- let the church help.""
[05:34] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[05:39] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[07:10] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[10:22] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust128.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:34] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust128.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[11:10] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-37-91.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:11] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-108-129.47-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude.
[13:21] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust128.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:21] <mc-> hi jcoxon, just send you an email.
[13:21] <mc-> *sent
[14:13] <mc-> just did some tests my insulated box, it dropped from 20C to -10C in 30 mins, not good.
[14:16] <mc-> that's without any electronics inside, now I'll test with some electronics.
[16:06] Ebola (n=Ebola@host81-152-204-231.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:55] <jcoxon> hey mc-
[17:04] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:06] <mc-> hey jcoxon
[17:06] <jcoxon> hey - got your email
[17:07] <jcoxon> your payload should fit in nicely
[17:07] <mc-> great
[17:08] <jcoxon> i'm still a little confused about power
[17:08] <jcoxon> do you think another battery pack in parallel?
[17:08] <mc-> I think one battery pack should power the router, and the other powers the GPS.
[17:09] <mc-> unless you want to use my GPS output?
[17:09] <jcoxon> oh my gps is nicely in place now
[17:09] <mc-> ok
[17:10] <jcoxon> i'll run some more tests to see if the voltage continues to drop
[17:10] <jcoxon> 0.24A isn't that large a current
[17:10] <mc-> what type of batts were you using?
[17:10] <jcoxon> well i will use lithiums
[17:10] <jcoxon> however i didn't have any lying around
[17:10] <jcoxon> i can test with alkalines and also nimh
[17:11] <mc-> I'm fairly certain that alkalines will be OK, can you measure the temperature?
[17:12] <mc-> I can put a thermistor in the post to you, you can use it with a multimeter.
[17:13] <mc-> and put the whole payload in the freezer.
[17:13] <jcoxon> i actually have a serial temp thingy lying around
[17:13] <mc-> even better
[17:13] <jcoxon> i'll put it together
[17:13] <jcoxon> i'm going to use lithiums for the flight
[17:14] <mc-> probably best to be safe..
[17:14] <jcoxon> but i'll test the payload temp as well - once i finish the lid
[17:19] Ebola (n=Ebola@host81-152-204-231.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "testing stuff"
[17:23] Ebola (n=Ebola@host81-152-204-231.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:36] <jcoxon> right running a test with 4xAA nimh batteries
[17:36] <jcoxon> 17.32 start :-D
[17:56] phatmonkey (i=nobody@81.2.121.150) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[17:57] phatmonkey (i=nobody@81.2.121.150) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] <mc-> bbl
[18:05] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust128.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[19:34] phatmonkey (i=nobody@81.2.121.150) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[19:35] phatmonkey (i=nobody@81.2.121.150) joined #highaltitude.
[19:53] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust128.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:07] <jcoxon> right
[21:07] <jcoxon> test is over
[21:08] <jcoxon> 3.5 hours on nimh
[21:09] <jcoxon> down to 4.4v
[21:15] <malgar> wow
[21:15] <malgar> jcoxon, some live stream for the event?
[21:15] <jcoxon> well
[21:15] <jcoxon> might be able to get peg IV to post its position on irc
[21:15] <jcoxon> need to work on that - will be testing quite soon
[21:17] <jcoxon> i'm not sure what else i could do for live streaming
[21:21] <mc-> 3.5hrs sounds good, was that powering both the router+GPS?
[21:21] <jcoxon> no
[21:21] <jcoxon> just the router
[21:21] <jcoxon> and it was with nimh
[21:22] <jcoxon> which are only 1.2v each - so 4.8v
[21:22] <mc-> so alkalines/lithium will last much longer..how do you get peg IV to post its position on irc?
[21:22] <jcoxon> ooo well i'll use the phone
[21:22] <jcoxon> to dial up the net
[21:22] <jcoxon> just working on it now
[21:23] <mc-> sorry, can't see how that will work with a Nokia 5110?
[21:23] <jcoxon> gnokii - the software can make a virtual modem
[21:23] <icez> :D
[21:24] <icez> so we'll see the positions here?:P
[21:24] <jcoxon> hopefully
[21:24] <jcoxon> though i'll only do it every say 30 minutes
[21:24] <mc-> I know of a SMS-to-email service..then it should be fairly easy to pass the email to irc
[21:24] <jcoxon> and it'll be on the ground when it dials up
[21:24] <icez> doesn't internet on cellphone cost a lot anyways?
[21:24] <jcoxon> i was going to make a ppp link - then just use a quick irc client to upload the data
[21:24] <jcoxon> won't be longer then a minute of connection
[21:25] <icez> oh so your payload will tell zeusbot ?
[21:25] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host86-141-239-117.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:25] <jcoxon> actually it might be quicker just to make it login itself
[21:26] <LaurenceB> hi everyone
[21:26] <mc-> see sms2email.com
[21:26] <jcoxon> hey LaurenceB
[21:27] <jcoxon> oh cool mc- i'll look into it
[21:27] <LaurenceB> does anyone know if its possible to use hyperterminal or similar to intercept serial comms from another program through a serial port?
[21:27] <LaurenceB> on a windows machine
[21:28] <mc-> yes, hyperterm can do that
[21:28] <jcoxon> don't programs lock the serial port though
[21:28] <jcoxon> so hyperterm won't be able to access it
[21:28] <mc-> you need 2 serial ports..
[21:28] <jcoxon> that could just be unix though
[21:28] <LaurenceB> I've got a cameraphone and I think there is software that enables you to use it like a webcam
[21:29] <LaurenceB> if I could see what the protocol was
[21:29] <LaurenceB> I could use it as the camera on a payload
[21:30] <mc-> IMO, you should use your talents on steering a glider...
[21:30] <LaurenceB> It's a sagem myc4
[21:30] <LaurenceB> I can only find usb cables, but looking at the settings on the phone
[21:31] <LaurenceB> it seems to use serial, so the cable must contain usb->serial ic
[21:32] <LaurenceB> could solder on some wires to read out the serial, but I was looking for a software only technique
[21:33] <jcoxon> hmmm there might be a bit of sniffer software
[21:33] <jcoxon> i've seen it for usb
[21:34] <LaurenceB> I'll have a look around then :)
[21:35] <LaurenceB> I've been trying out the boat, the keel makes it go in a more or less straight line
[21:35] <LaurenceB> but it just doesn't work properly, I think there is threshold speed of around 50cm/s
[21:36] <mc-> it could be a noisy GPS position?
[21:36] <mc-> or the GPS goes into static nav?
[21:36] <LaurenceB> for the gps to work, and even if the boat goes above this speed its not very accurate
[21:36] <LaurenceB> I got a very quick gps fix, there wern't any trees around
[21:37] <mc-> are you using the heading the GPS gives, or calculating the heading?
[21:37] <LaurenceB> It seems GPS velocity gets better with increasing speed
[21:38] <LaurenceB> the heading is calculated by offsetting the wind vector from the gps vector, but I'm using wind=0
[21:39] <LaurenceB> so effectively yes I'm just using gps heading
[21:40] <mc-> the gps heading output is pretty inaccurate at low speeds
[21:40] <LaurenceB> If I walk quickly it will work acceptably, Lag time is approx 1 second and heading is pretty accurate and consistent
[21:41] <LaurenceB> but at boat speed there is a long lag time and inaccurate heading
[21:41] <mc-> I think the slow boat speed is the problem here.
[21:41] <LaurenceB> yes I've ditched the boat now
[21:43] <LaurenceB> Ideally I need an rc plane with some spare weight capacity, and an extra channel for disconnecting the rudder from the reciever and patching it through to my autopilot
[21:44] <mc-> I've got an rc plane, and I've found a website where I can modify my transmitter for an extra channel.
[21:45] <LaurenceB> cool, glow engine or electric?
[21:45] <mc-> glow, in fact I've got 3 planes..only 1 is flying at the moment..
[21:46] <LaurenceB> I've got a glow plane but I've never flown it, only ever flown electric planes
[21:47] <mc-> landing is the big problem where I fly, in a clearing surrounded by trees..
[21:48] <LaurenceB> Do you think it would take my autopilot, it's apporx 10x4x4 cm and weighs less than 0 grams
[21:48] <LaurenceB> - 80 grams lol
[21:48] <mc-> how about towing up a glider with your autopilot in it?
[21:48] <LaurenceB> interesting idea, how would it detatch?
[21:50] <mc-> there must be a way, how about a hook which detaches during a dive?
[21:51] <LaurenceB> there's a huge disused airfield just near my house where people fly rc planes, but theres a flying club that meets there most days, and I'm not sure what they would say to non members
[21:51] <LaurenceB> you could have a hook on a spare servo
[21:53] <mc-> or you could use the rudder servo, and put full rudder to detach the hook?
[21:53] <LaurenceB> maybe, I now have cutdown incorporated into the autopilot, could have this on a timer
[21:54] <LaurenceB> or better, if altitude goes above some value
[21:56] <LaurenceB> just have to build a glider....
[21:58] <LaurenceB> problem is that if the glider goes out of control, or glides off somewhere miles away, there's no way to take back control, whereas with a modified rc plane there is
[21:59] <mc-> I've got a spare receiver, if you want to take back control.
[22:00] <LaurenceB> I'm thinking of using my glow engine plane, its approx 2 meter wingspan
[22:01] <mc-> I know someone who can make me a foam wing if that's any use to you.
[22:01] <LaurenceB> I've got a foam wing about 1m long I'm thinking of using
[22:02] <mc-> I've got a fuselage+tailplane from my crashed trainer
[22:02] <jcoxon> as i fight with ppp (takes me back to the dial up days) we should have a day of tethered balloon drops
[22:02] <LaurenceB> would you be able to fly my plane? I just don't think I've got enough experience
[22:02] <jcoxon> a sort of ukhas day
[22:03] <LaurenceB> when?
[22:03] <jcoxon> set up a tethered balloon and then test cutdowns, gliders etc
[22:03] <jcoxon> just popped into my head to tell you the truth
[22:03] <mc-> tethered balloon sounds great..LaurenceB, I'm happy to fly your plane, if you trust me..
[22:04] <LaurenceB> yes lol
[22:04] <LaurenceB> tethered launches are good but we'd be limited to 1 day
[22:05] <LaurenceB> probably find I need to completely change something after a few drops
[22:05] <jcoxon> i sort of mean we get helium a couple of balloons and then spend the day working on our projects
[22:05] <jcoxon> yeah exactly
[22:05] <LaurenceB> It would be good for some final testing but not initial tests
[22:06] <jcoxon> of course
[22:06] <jcoxon> but it would be good to test say parachute deployment or cutdowns as well
[22:06] <jcoxon> just by all doing it at the same time we can save costs etc
[22:06] <jcoxon> and get to all meet up
[22:07] <LaurenceB> I'm going to have a look at my rc plane, I might buy a new radio for it as the batteries on the existing one will be dead if I can even find it
[22:07] <mc-> Can you do initial testing with a NMEA simulator...I wrote a few lines of code for a circle GPS course.
[22:08] <LaurenceB> ? I'm sure the code works fine, it's just the control of the glider
[22:09] <mc-> true
[22:09] <mc-> how much work is it to get your foam wing flying?
[22:09] <LaurenceB> I'll do some work on my ukhas wiki glider page now, have a look in a few minutes
[22:10] <LaurenceB> Well at the moment I have a foam wing...
[22:10] <mc-> does it have spars?
[22:10] <LaurenceB> no just foam
[22:11] <LaurenceB> http://www.marketplace.dk/page_visvare.phtml?id=1011
[22:11] <LaurenceB> off one of those
[22:12] <LaurenceB> I've also got the tail off one and fitted a sevo to the rudder
[22:16] <mc-> I guess the rudder servo is under the main wing?
[22:17] <mc-> must go to sleep now, cya
[22:17] <LaurenceB> cya
[22:17] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust128.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[22:17] <LaurenceB> how do you insert code into wiki pages?
[22:18] <jcoxon> hmm check the syntax guide
[22:19] <phatmonkey> LaurenceB, on the ukhas wiki you can use <code> </code> tags
[22:19] <jcoxon> hey phatmonkey
[22:19] <phatmonkey> hey
[22:19] <phatmonkey> LaurenceB, http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/wiki:syntax
[22:19] <phatmonkey> has syntax highlighting too
[22:20] <LaurenceB> thanks
[22:21] <LaurenceB> grrr I get "Warning: preg_match()..." ect when I try to save
[22:22] <LaurenceB> okay, looks like it worked anyway
[22:22] <LaurenceB> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:mihab:glider
[22:24] <phatmonkey> LaurenceB, yeah it's odd that
[22:24] <phatmonkey> actually
[22:24] <phatmonkey> i'll upgrade the wiki right now, it might fix that weird error
[22:27] <LaurenceB> okay I've got the syntax highlighting working
[22:27] <LaurenceB> the code for the autopilot is now up
[22:31] Action: jcoxon has forgotten how much he hates pppd
[22:33] <LaurenceB> what is pppd?
[22:34] <jcoxon> its a daemon that creates tcp connections over serial
[22:34] <jcoxon> you use it for dial up internet
[22:38] <LaurenceB> whats a daemon sorry I'm useless at unix stuff
[22:39] <jcoxon> oh its like a program that runs in the background
[22:39] <jcoxon> and keeps an eye on things
[22:46] <LaurenceB> okay I've put some explanations and things on my glider page
[22:51] <LaurenceB> Tim0_isr: is called every 256 clock cycles and uses almost 200, sothat is a big drain on processor time
[22:52] <LaurenceB> but I can't think of a better way to generate uniform servo pulses
[23:05] <LaurenceB> Is a gumstix capable of generating servo pulses? Or does the nature of linux make it impossible to accuately turn the gpio on and off in such a short time
[23:05] <jcoxon> i've generated servo pulses
[23:05] <jcoxon> using a kernel driver
[23:06] <jcoxon> i think the x-scale chip can support it
[23:06] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-108-129.47-151.net24.it) left irc: "*** E' solo l'urto con un iceberg, che vuoi che sia, questa è una nave inaffondabile. *** 75$/barile"
[23:07] <LaurenceB> just thinking about how that must work, must scedule interrupts using internal timers
[23:07] <LaurenceB> whats that the price of oil??
[23:07] <LaurenceB> I think that is possible with an avr
[23:08] <LaurenceB> there are interrupts for when a timer reaches a certain value
[23:08] <LaurenceB> rather than having one called every 16us
[23:08] <jcoxon> with a robostix you can have hardware pwm
[23:09] <LaurenceB> I will look at http://avrhelp.mcselec.com/bascom-avr.html
[23:10] <LaurenceB> you could program a robostix with bascom OMG
[23:12] <jcoxon> oh really
[23:12] <jcoxon> cool
[23:12] <LaurenceB> well sometime I question the reliability of bascom
[23:13] <LaurenceB> but it is very cool
[23:17] <LaurenceB> http://avrhelp.mcselec.com/bascom-avr.html?CONFIG_TIMER1
[23:17] <LaurenceB> looks like you can only do hardware pwm, but it should have high enough resolution to use for servo control
[23:23] <LaurenceB> http://avrhelp.mcselec.com/bascom-avr.html?ON_INTERRUPT
[23:24] <LaurenceB> no looks like there are compare regester interrupts for when the timer reaches a certain value
[23:24] <jcoxon> oh
[23:25] <LaurenceB> so the code would get the timer value, set the servo pin, and and set the compare register to call an interrupt x us in the future that will reset the pin
[23:27] <LaurenceB> of course its a 16 bit counter so if the code finds the compare register needs to be set with something >64000 or whatever 2^16 is then it subtracts 2^16
[23:29] <LaurenceB> thats probably the same technique linux uses
[23:29] <jcoxon> maybe - way beyond my understand!
[23:30] <jcoxon> actually going a little mad
[23:30] <LaurenceB> there would also need to be an interrupt 20ms in the future for the next pulse, but we have compare A and compare B
[23:30] <LaurenceB> I will try this tomorrow
[23:31] <LaurenceB> sorry am I making your head explode :-]
[23:31] <jcoxon> no its not you!
[23:31] <jcoxon> its this damn software!
[23:31] <jcoxon> for some reason it won't give me the debug output
[23:33] <LaurenceB> I can never think straight in the day, the neighbours are playing stupid gangster rap
[23:33] <jcoxon> haha
[23:33] <LaurenceB> annoying council tenants
[23:33] <LaurenceB> I was trying to work this afternoon and I couldn't think
[23:34] <LaurenceB> maths and rap don't mix
[23:34] <jcoxon> no i could imagine
[23:36] <LaurenceB> whats this software? pppq
[23:36] <jcoxon> no pppd is working
[23:36] <LaurenceB> sorry pppd
[23:36] <jcoxon> however i'm using trusty gnokii to actually communicate with the phone
[23:37] <jcoxon> it can act as a virtual modem
[23:37] <jcoxon> however it doesn't seem to work and doesn't give me any output
[23:37] <jcoxon> which doesn't help
[23:37] <LaurenceB> yes I'm still intreaged by virtual modems, are you using gprs?
[23:38] <jcoxon> no
[23:38] <jcoxon> i've got a 5110 - its so old it doesn't even do AT commands
[23:38] <jcoxon> if it did it would be a breeze
[23:38] <jcoxon> right well the good news is that i've now got my gps working nicely
[23:38] <LaurenceB> as far as I am aware gsm only supports voice sms and ems
[23:39] <LaurenceB> no directs digital data transfer unlike gprs
[23:39] <jcoxon> well what it does is emulates the modem and then uses voice
[23:39] <jcoxon> like a normal phoneline
[23:39] <LaurenceB> so at some point the serial must go to analogue, or at least a digital representation
[23:40] <jcoxon> yeah i guess so
[23:40] <jcoxon> however i'm suddenly realising that it might not even be possible
[23:40] <jcoxon> last time i used a nokia 6310
[23:40] <jcoxon> which is more advanced
[23:40] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[23:43] <jcoxon> right i'm off to bed
[23:43] <jcoxon> best to end on a positive :-D
[23:44] <LaurenceB> cya
[23:44] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-37-91.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:56] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host86-141-239-117.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 27 2006