highaltitude.log.20061222

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[00:02] <jcoxon> that was strange
[00:03] <jcoxon> LaurenceB, if i have time i might set it up to do that
[00:03] <jcoxon> perhaps have it dial up once, if it fails then it gives up totally and just sends texts
[00:04] <jcoxon> it would be quite fun as everyone would then be able to take part and find the damn thing
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[00:09] <jcoxon> night all
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[01:55] <tuck3r> jcoxon: have you ever used a usb-to-serial adaptor when connecting to the gumstix?
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[11:01] <jcoxon> the problem about cutting down over towns is that if you are say at 20km up then it doesn't matter if you drift over a town
[11:01] <jcoxon> i'd like to get some altitude though
[11:01] <jcoxon> hmmmm, going to need some thought
[11:02] <jcoxon> i'll do some work on where i think the cutdown line should be
[11:03] <mc-> is that a line for the geozone, or a physical line for the cutdown wire?
[11:04] <jcoxon> oh the geozone
[11:04] <mc-> ok
[11:04] <jcoxon> i'll dig out the old coordinates that i used for peg III
[11:04] <jcoxon> even though the cutdown didn't work
[11:04] <jcoxon> probably due the slow ascent rate
[11:05] <jcoxon> i seem to remember that i told it not to cut unless it was above a particular height
[11:05] <mc-> oh..why?
[11:06] <jcoxon> cause i was going for altitude
[11:06] <jcoxon> it was rather a rushed job
[11:07] <jcoxon> are you carrying a camera on your payload?
[11:07] <mc-> no
[11:07] <mc-> I've got an old camera wired up to the shutter button, but can't find the PC software for it...
[11:09] <mc-> I've got a Nokia 5110+cable + the camera I can donate to ukhas..
[11:10] <mc-> btw, if you need a PIC to control your 2 stage camera, I can write some code.
[11:10] <mc-> It might be quicker than messing around with 555s.
[11:11] <mc-> Alternatively, can't you use 2 GPIOs for the 2 stage shutter?
[11:11] <jcoxon> i've actually sorted the circuit
[11:11] <jcoxon> its good for me to learn a bit of electronics
[11:12] <jcoxon> i'm not using the GPIOs as i wanted to seperate the camera from the flight computer
[11:12] <jcoxon> have a self contained triggering camera
[11:12] <mc-> what are you doing for power?
[11:12] <jcoxon> for the timer circuit?
[11:13] <jcoxon> well it manages to cheekly run off 3v
[11:13] <mc-> for the whole payload?
[11:13] <jcoxon> oh
[11:13] <jcoxon> that i'm still working on
[11:13] <jcoxon> the router can run off 6v
[11:13] <jcoxon> so i'm thinking 4 AA lithiums
[11:13] <jcoxon> with the wireless turned off on the router it should considerably cut power consumption
[11:13] <jcoxon> going to need some testing of course
[11:14] <jcoxon> and i'm thinking of having a seperate battery pack for the gps
[11:14] <mc-> lithiums are expensive? btw rapid electronics has free delivery over xmas period
[11:14] <jcoxon> lithiums are very expensive
[11:14] <jcoxon> but are reliable at -40
[11:14] <jcoxon> and are much lighter
[11:15] <mc-> but it wouldn't get cold with that heat inside?
[11:16] <jcoxon> i hope so
[11:16] <jcoxon> but i'm not taking the risk yet
[11:16] <jcoxon> hate for a payload to fail due to the batteries
[11:16] <jcoxon> nova 2 had a nice little battery experiment
[11:16] <jcoxon> but obviously it never survived
[11:17] <jcoxon> would be nice to be able to shift on to rechargables
[11:23] <jcoxon> be back in one sec
[11:23] <jcoxon> just going to weight my payload
[11:27] <jcoxon> excellent - 600g including batteries
[11:27] <jcoxon> what sort of weight will your payload be?
[12:06] <mc-> GPS is 22g, PP3 bat is 46g, + allow 100g for everything else
[12:07] <jcoxon> cool
[12:07] <jcoxon> bbl
[12:08] <mc-> bbl as well
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[13:26] <malgar> i'm searching something that explains in mathematical terms how much is the pressure inside the balloon and how it changes during the ascent (and the ballon's diameter)
[13:28] <jcoxon> how you looked at the UTARC wiki?
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[13:29] <jcoxon> http://www.utarc.org/wiki/index.php/Amateur_Ballooning_Compendium#Balloon_Physics
[13:40] <malgar> uh!
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[13:48] <jcoxon> is that what you needed malgar?
[13:48] <malgar> mmh, a good point where to start
[13:48] <malgar> :)
[13:49] <jcoxon> what are you trying to do?
[13:49] <malgar> some calculus for my thesis
[13:49] <jcoxon> oh right
[13:50] <malgar> I've done them but i would like to check if they are right
[13:51] <jcoxon> oh right
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[17:11] <icez> hey jcoxon
[17:11] <jcoxon> hey icez
[20:14] <jcoxon> wohoo
[20:14] <jcoxon> Peg IV now runs on batteries
[20:18] <malgar> :)
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[20:18] <LaurenceB> hi all
[20:19] <LaurenceB> did anyone else get disconnected last night?
[20:19] <jcoxon> yup i did
[20:19] <LaurenceB> freenode seemed to die
[20:20] <jcoxon> i think it was a netsplit
[20:20] <LaurenceB> ?
[20:20] <jcoxon> as irc works on multiple servers
[20:20] <jcoxon> if some of the links break down the system splits into two
[20:21] <LaurenceB> oh so they swapped to another server
[20:21] <jcoxon> so right now i'm on antony.freenode
[20:21] <LaurenceB> ah
[20:21] <LaurenceB> how do you find that out?
[20:21] <jcoxon> find out what?
[20:22] <LaurenceB> which server your on
[20:22] <jcoxon> ummm its said on the main freenode tab on my client
[20:23] <LaurenceB> okay not on mine, what client do you use? i'm using mIRC
[20:24] <LaurenceB> I'm a bit of a noob with IRC :)
[20:25] <Ebola> whois yourself
[20:25] <LaurenceB> I'm a student at Oxford
[20:26] <LaurenceB> I built MiHAB1 and 2
[20:26] <Ebola> No I meant whois yourself on irc
[20:26] <LaurenceB> Eh?
[20:26] <Ebola> /whois LaurenceB
[20:27] <Ebola> The output should show you which server you're connected to
[20:27] <LaurenceB> omg now I get you
[20:28] <LaurenceB> As you can see I am a real idiot with irc
[20:30] <LaurenceB> #whois laurenceb
[20:30] <LaurenceB> WTF am I doing.... I should just stay away
[20:30] <Ebola> / not #
[20:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:33] <jcoxon> its amazing how many balloon groups there are in the US
[20:33] <jcoxon> keep finding more and more
[20:34] <Ebola> See if it correlates to the number of UFO sightings
[20:35] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:35] <jcoxon> there are also a load of sites linking ufos to balloons
[20:36] <Ebola> woo
[21:11] <LaurenceB> I've built the adaptor for my laptop
[21:11] <LaurenceB> so it can work as the master for my autopilot module
[21:12] <LaurenceB> working on the code now
[21:12] <jcoxon> ooo cool
[21:13] <LaurenceB> commands will be SLEEP, WAKE , TARGET, WIND, STATUS
[21:13] <jcoxon> interesting
[21:13] <LaurenceB> and I might add CUTDOWN
[21:13] <LaurenceB> if the autopilot has cutdown
[21:13] <LaurenceB> there will be 10 ms between lines
[21:14] <LaurenceB> so the master can process lines of code before recieving the next
[21:14] <LaurenceB> I think I'll have it run at 19200 baud at 5 volt
[21:15] <jcoxon> 5v?
[21:15] <LaurenceB> theres CTS and RTS lines
[21:15] <LaurenceB> yes all my stuff runs on 5 volt
[21:16] <jcoxon> oh right
[21:16] <LaurenceB> TARGET and WIND are used for the master to input data
[21:17] <LaurenceB> the master stores wind on the way up
[21:18] <LaurenceB> wind will be in gps format of heading and knots
[21:18] <LaurenceB> at the moment target will be in decimal degrees
[21:19] <LaurenceB> I'll put the code up on the wiki together with a description of the interface
[21:20] <jcoxon> cool
[21:25] <jcoxon> grr the gps is being funny
[21:25] <jcoxon> gpsd obviously doesn't like it
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[21:29] <LaurenceB> hi there
[21:30] <mc-> hi
[21:30] <jcoxon> hey mc-
[21:31] <jcoxon> got the email and have managed to decode it
[21:31] <mc-> so it makes sense?
[21:31] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:31] <jcoxon> i'll do a bit of practice in hte next
[21:31] <jcoxon> 15 days
[21:34] <jcoxon> grrr looks like i'm going to have to recompile gpsd
[21:36] <mc-> what's that?
[21:36] <jcoxon> gpsd is a bit of software for unix
[21:37] <jcoxon> which reads gps and parses it etc
[21:37] <jcoxon> my gps doesn't seem to transmit NMEA in the correct format
[21:37] <mc-> what make of GPS? They should all be the same.
[21:38] <jcoxon> its a rockwell jupiter
[21:38] <mc-> I've got one of those somewhere, the format is fine..
[21:38] <jcoxon> hmmm
[21:38] <jcoxon> why is it freaking out on me
[21:38] <mc-> is it navigating?
[21:39] <mc-> if you grab a few lines of it, I can read it..
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[21:40] <whiteknight> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,,,,,,,*66
[21:40] <whiteknight> $GPGSA,,,,,,*42
[21:40] <whiteknight> $GPRMC,235955,V,5602.6382,N,00325.9907,W,0.000,0.0,280697,6.2,W*67
[21:40] <whiteknight> $PRWIZCH,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0,14,0*4D
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[21:40] <jcoxon> it obviously doesn't have a lock
[21:40] <mc-> yes, no lock
[21:41] <mc-> if it was navigating, the GGA string would be populated.
[21:41] <mc-> what antenna have you got?
[21:41] <jcoxon> i haven't yet :-D
[21:41] <jcoxon> but my software should be able to handle no lock
[21:41] <mc-> should it?
[21:42] <mc-> I've got some spare antennas, what do you need active or passive?
[21:42] <jcoxon> can do both
[21:42] <jcoxon> hmmm i don't really need an active
[21:43] <jcoxon> passive will do
[21:43] <jcoxon> thanks mc-
[21:43] <mc-> I've got some passives on the desk here, with a short bit of coax.
[21:44] <jcoxon> the connector is MCX
[21:44] <jcoxon> though i do have an adapter to BNC (i think)
[21:45] <mc-> I just solder on the back, under the connector.
[21:46] <mc-> email me your address, and I'll put something in the post.
[21:47] <jcoxon> done,
[21:47] <jcoxon> thanks mc-
[21:47] <LaurenceB> I've soldered the coax onto the gps for my autopilot unit it works fine
[21:48] <LaurenceB> mcx connector got smashed when MiHAB2 crashed without a parachute
[21:50] <jcoxon> hmmm, i've always gone by the book - proper connectors
[21:51] <LaurenceB> theoretically you don't have to worry about impedance of your soldered bit of coax if the lenght is much smaller than the wavelenght on the stuff your sending down it
[21:51] <jcoxon> oh right
[21:52] <jcoxon> mc-, i was wondering if we should invite the Cambridge Nova team to stick one of their sensor boards
[21:52] <jcoxon> on our flight
[21:52] <LaurenceB> what do they have on their boards?
[21:52] <jcoxon> temperature, accelerometers
[21:52] <LaurenceB> compass?
[21:53] <jcoxon> don't think so
[21:53] <LaurenceB> that would be useful
[21:53] <jcoxon> if i have time i'll set up i2c on peg IV and add my compass
[21:54] <LaurenceB> this command line thing is more complicated than I thought
[22:02] <LaurenceB> I'm up to about 200 lines of code
[22:02] <mc-> sure, invite Nova, it's your balloon after all
[22:02] <jcoxon> hmmm, gonna get complicated!
[22:03] <jcoxon> mc-, hehe its all about sharing
[22:03] <jcoxon> considering that Peg IV is 600g
[22:03] <jcoxon> and your payload (name yet?) is about 180g
[22:03] <jcoxon> i reckon we have a bit of extra weight
[22:03] <jcoxon> and i've got a nice "payload bay" itching to be used
[22:04] <jcoxon> i'll email them now
[22:04] <LaurenceB> How do you get a 180 gram payload?
[22:04] <LaurenceB> do you have a phone?
[22:05] <mc-> no phone in my payload
[22:05] <LaurenceB> camera?
[22:05] <mc-> no camera either..
[22:05] <mc-> basically a useless bit of electronics and a battery
[22:05] <LaurenceB> ah MiHAB1 was an attempt to get as light as poss but it was 300grams
[22:06] <LaurenceB> it had camera and phone but no radio
[22:07] <jcoxon> i got a 6MP camera onboard
[22:07] <LaurenceB> Mihab2 was approx 600 grams and had radio camera temp sensor and phone
[22:07] <LaurenceB> 6MP cool
[22:08] <jcoxon> though i'm not sure how good it really is
[22:08] <jcoxon> will have to see
[22:08] <LaurenceB> Think i've got the command line stuff sorted
[22:08] <LaurenceB> but have to think through all the ways it could be run
[22:09] <LaurenceB> I had a 3mp camera but it wasn't very good as it couldn't adjust the contrast
[22:09] <jcoxon> i'm really happy about the weight of Peg IV
[22:09] <jcoxon> only 600g
[22:09] <LaurenceB> it didn't have this problem at ground level
[22:10] <jcoxon> though the scales could be lying
[22:10] <LaurenceB> think it was combination of low temp and high contrast environment
[22:10] <jcoxon> its a tough environment
[22:10] <jcoxon> far more UV as well i assume
[22:10] <mc-> has anyone ever logged the temperature on the way up?
[22:11] <LaurenceB> yes see my wiki
[22:11] <LaurenceB> down to almost -50
[22:11] <LaurenceB> the photos were colour corrected with picasa
[22:12] <mc-> was the temperature inside or outside?
[22:12] <LaurenceB> the raw images were worse as far as contrast goes
[22:12] <mc-> where's your wiki? wiki.ukhas.org.uk ?
[22:12] <LaurenceB> the sersor was poking out of the side
[22:12] <jcoxon> bbl
[22:12] <LaurenceB> just a sec i'll find it
[22:12] <mc-> What was the temp like inside?
[22:13] <LaurenceB> dont know there wasn't a sensor inside
[22:14] <LaurenceB> electronics used 1.5 watts
[22:14] <LaurenceB> I calculated 20 c temperature difference
[22:14] <LaurenceB> my computer here is ancient
[22:14] <LaurenceB> trying to load firefox to find the wiki......
[22:17] <LaurenceB> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:mihab
[22:17] <LaurenceB> there you go
[22:17] <LaurenceB> this pc is 10 years old
[22:21] <LaurenceB> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:mihab:mihab_2
[22:25] <mc-> thanks
[22:25] <LaurenceB> can you see a photo of the elctronics?
[22:26] <LaurenceB> there should be one
[22:27] <LaurenceB> but it doesn't seem to be appearing
[22:28] <mc-> yes, I can see a pic of the electronics
[22:29] <LaurenceB> okay firefox just crashed probably why I couldn't see anything
[22:30] <LaurenceB> this machine usually runs okay but it seems to have run out ram
[22:30] <mc-> I wonder what the internal temp does? With 1.5W, I think it would get quite hot?
[22:30] <mc-> My electronics takes a few mW, so I'm worried it's going to get cold.
[22:31] <LaurenceB> I used the thermal conductivity of polystyrene to work out the temp rise
[22:31] <LaurenceB> do you have GPS?
[22:31] <mc-> yes
[22:32] <mc-> but I'm powering cylcing it
[22:32] <LaurenceB> surely it uses a fair bit of power
[22:32] <mc-> 250mA when on, but it's on for about 10s every minute
[22:32] <LaurenceB> oh so you use it in push to fix mode
[22:32] <mc-> no, just turn the power off
[22:33] <LaurenceB> using just aaa lithiums you can have many hours battery life with around 1watt power
[22:33] <LaurenceB> its worth considering to warm up the electronics
[22:34] <mc-> I'm using a PP3, and was hoping the drop from 9V to 5V would add a little heat.
[22:34] <LaurenceB> lithium pp3?
[22:34] <mc-> ordinary pp3. Can I paint the box black, or will that emit heat?
[22:34] <LaurenceB> black emits more heat
[22:35] <LaurenceB> but it will absorb the sun
[22:35] <LaurenceB> so will probably heat it
[22:35] <LaurenceB> I ued flourescent paint so its easy to find
[22:35] <mc-> so maybe some ali foil underneath as a sun reflector might help?
[22:35] <LaurenceB> came in handy as the parachute snapped off
[22:36] <LaurenceB> painting it black might be good
[22:37] <LaurenceB> if you look at the temp data at apogee you can see it oscillating
[22:37] <LaurenceB> I interpret this as the payload rotating
[22:37] <mc-> good thinking
[22:37] <LaurenceB> and the sun heating the sensor
[22:38] <LaurenceB> you can use this to estimate how much the sun heats the payload
[22:38] <LaurenceB> approx 20c
[22:38] <LaurenceB> as air density is low
[22:38] <LaurenceB> -> low thermal conductivity
[22:39] <LaurenceB> I've got to go now I'm afraid
[22:39] <LaurenceB> cya
[22:39] <mc-> cya
[22:39] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host86-144-4-201.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) left irc:
[22:40] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust128.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[00:00] --- Sat Dec 23 2006