highaltitude.log.20061124

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[14:55] <jcoxon> bbl :-D
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[16:50] <jcoxon> :-S
[16:54] <icez> :F
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[17:07] <phatmonkey> hi jcoxon
[17:12] <jcoxon> hey phatmonkey
[17:13] <phatmonkey> sounds nice
[17:15] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:15] <jcoxon> sorry its a bit of an essay
[17:15] <jcoxon> would really like your feedback
[17:16] <phatmonkey> sounds like a really good idea tbh
[17:16] <phatmonkey> my zagi 60 is ready for the job
[17:16] <jcoxon> what about the double system?
[17:17] <phatmonkey> sounds like a good idea, yeah
[17:17] <phatmonkey> experimenting with parafoils would be interesting
[17:17] <phatmonkey> it's certainly much simpler
[17:17] <phatmonkey> you don't actually have to fly them
[17:17] <jcoxon> parafoils or gliders?
[17:17] <phatmonkey> parafoils
[17:18] <jcoxon> i think gliders are far more stable
[17:18] <jcoxon> less risk of tangle
[17:18] <phatmonkey> but it probably won't be very successful
[17:18] <phatmonkey> yeah
[17:18] <jcoxon> and its going to have a lot of freefall before the parafoil can inflate
[17:18] <phatmonkey> well, there's just as much risk of tangle with a parafoil than a parachute
[17:18] <phatmonkey> yes
[17:18] <phatmonkey> and if it does get a bit tangled, no problem, it can just descend uncontrolled
[17:18] <phatmonkey> but a glider is a better idea - just harder
[17:19] <jcoxon> yes/no
[17:19] <jcoxon> i reckon controlling a parafoil is tough as well
[17:19] <phatmonkey> it'll descend on its own
[17:19] <phatmonkey> the computer just needs to put in small left/right inputs as far as i can see
[17:21] <jcoxon> hmmm
[17:22] <phatmonkey> i prefer the idea of a glider though... seeing i've bought all this kit!
[17:22] <phatmonkey> i've got thermopiles, gps, plane, phone, gumstix, parachute
[17:22] <phatmonkey> it just needs to be put together
[17:23] <icez> how would making the payload land at a very very small angle off the ground sound, instead of straight down? So it would glide on the ground instead?
[17:24] <jcoxon> how much can the payload "bay" of a zagi hold?
[17:28] <jcoxon> as i worry about the size of the glider itself
[17:28] <phatmonkey> quite a lot really
[17:28] <phatmonkey> i've forgotten my weight plans
[17:28] <phatmonkey> hmm
[17:29] <phatmonkey> but it could carry 20Ah (I think) worth of 3.7v lipos and it was only slightly more than the designed weight
[17:30] <phatmonkey> and at the designed weight, oh boy does it glide!
[17:30] <jcoxon> onething i've been thinking about is how much to we actually want it to be able to glide?
[17:30] <phatmonkey> it's actually rather hard to land - it just doesn't seem to go downwards because of its tiny drag
[17:32] <jcoxon> it needs to come down eventually!
[17:33] <phatmonkey> hehe
[17:35] <jcoxon> also 60 inches is a lot bigger then any payload we've launched
[17:35] <jcoxon> i worry about if it doesn't work and crashes into something
[17:37] <phatmonkey> we just need to make sure a parachute is released, then it'll be safe enough
[17:37] <phatmonkey> i have a 48" zagi too
[17:37] <phatmonkey> and tbh, it isn't much smaller
[17:37] <phatmonkey> i can take pics comparing if you want
[17:37] <phatmonkey> but the 60" zagi has a much larger wing surface because its designed to carry flight batteries (my 48" is just a slope soarer)
[17:39] <jcoxon> hmmmmm
[17:39] <jcoxon> still need convincing :-D
[17:39] <jcoxon> lots to discuss
[17:40] <phatmonkey> ya
[17:40] <phatmonkey> with more people it'll be much quicker actually
[17:40] <jcoxon> have you thought about if you want to keep your project seperate?
[17:40] <phatmonkey> freddie's very happy to design a pretty ground station, i'm happy to write onboard stuff
[17:40] <phatmonkey> nah
[17:40] <phatmonkey> might as well merge it
[17:40] <phatmonkey> you can use my gear
[17:40] <jcoxon> in a sense we are therefore going to build 2 slugs
[17:41] <jcoxon> i'm very keen for 2
[17:41] <jcoxon> brb
[17:41] <phatmonkey> k
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[17:58] <jcoxon> back
[18:00] <jcoxon> are there any other flying wing makes apart from zagi?
[18:05] <phatmonkey> hundreds
[18:07] <jcoxon> why zagi then?
[18:07] <jcoxon> out of interest
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[18:57] <mc-> hi jcoxon
[18:58] <mc-> A way to make a steerable chute more reliable might be to launch it with the chute deployed
[18:59] <mc-> and to put a spacer between the lines so they can't get twisted.
[19:02] <mc-> IMO, the risk with a glider is that it builds up so much speed, that the control don't work.
[19:03] <jcoxon> mc- definitly something to explore
[19:03] <jcoxon> i'm increasingly a fan of a glider scenerio
[19:03] <jcoxon> right i've got to go
[19:04] <jcoxon> will be back later
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[23:09] <jcoxon> hey all
[23:10] <rocketboy> hi
[23:11] <jcoxon> rocketboy are the nova lot going for the sponsership?
[23:12] <rocketboy> yep - I put them on to somthing - they are going to put their pitch tomorrow
[23:12] <jcoxon> oh that sounds cool
[23:12] <jcoxon> spoke to phatmonkey
[23:13] <phatmonkey> sort of here
[23:13] <rocketboy> what is his take?
[23:13] <phatmonkey> badly need sleep...
[23:13] <phatmonkey> rocketboy, sounds like a great idea!
[23:13] <phatmonkey> all my gear can be used
[23:14] <phatmonkey> i pretty much have everything ready to use - zagi 60, thermopiles, gps, gumstix, parachute
[23:14] <rocketboy> excellent
[23:14] <rocketboy> how is the software comming?
[23:15] <phatmonkey> experimenting with parafoils might be interesting too - much simpler to fly
[23:15] <phatmonkey> haven't really done much
[23:15] <rocketboy> ah - OK
[23:15] <phatmonkey> since we're using the gumstix, writing in a higher level language than C makes the navigation and data handling much easier to write
[23:15] <phatmonkey> or maybe i'm just a crap C coder
[23:16] <jcoxon> phatmonkey we haven't decided on hte gumstix yet :-p
[23:16] <phatmonkey> damn :P
[23:16] <jcoxon> still pushing for it
[23:16] <jcoxon> rocketboy i found some data on power consumption for you
[23:16] <rocketboy> good - what is it like
[23:18] <jcoxon> http://docwiki.gumstix.org/Frequently_asked_questions/Heat_and_power#What_are_the_power_specifications_for_the_gumstix_boards.3F
[23:18] <phatmonkey> my gumstix draws 160ma @ 5v iirc
[23:19] <phatmonkey> that's with the robostix
[23:19] <rocketboy> now thats not too bad at all
[23:19] <phatmonkey> since that was the only way to power it
[23:19] <phatmonkey> so that's an atmel 128 chip and the gumstix
[23:20] <jcoxon> do we actually need robostixs?
[23:20] <jcoxon> now that i can use 4 ADCs on a gpsstix and produce multiple lines of PWM
[23:21] <rocketboy> that says the power can be closed down to 10mA (99MHz CPU, 50MHz bus, idle)
[23:22] <jcoxon> i guess using cpufreq to cut the cpu speed
[23:22] <jcoxon> robostix draws more power
[23:23] <rocketboy> Still a bit green about gumstix - what does robostix provide
[23:23] <rocketboy> ?
[23:24] <jcoxon> has a ATMega128 onboard
[23:25] <jcoxon> used to expand the I/O of the gumstix
[23:25] <jcoxon> however i've managed to do both adc and pwm on hte gumstix and gpsstix instead
[23:26] <phatmonkey> the gpstix would make it very compact i suppose
[23:26] <phatmonkey> and we know it works well
[23:27] <jcoxon> yeah its a nice package
[23:28] <jcoxon> though it does lack headers
[23:28] <jcoxon> and mine is a little bit screwed up after to much soldering on the little holes
[23:29] <rocketboy> and the GPSstix plugs into a gumsix - so its $99+ $130
[23:29] <rocketboy> what is on the 60pin header of the basix 200
[23:30] <jcoxon> basically there are 2 main gumstix models
[23:30] <jcoxon> basix and connex
[23:30] <jcoxon> basic has a 60pin header on hte bottom and a mmc on top
[23:31] <jcoxon> a connex has 60pin on hte bottom and instead a 92pin on top
[23:31] <jcoxon> so we could use a basix and GPSstix
[23:32] <jcoxon> the 92pin header is useful if you want say wifi, CF, ethernet
[23:32] <rocketboy> better not loose it then.
[23:33] <rocketboy> looks like the basix has at least 2 serial I/O
[23:33] <jcoxon> the GPSstix brings out the serial I/O
[23:34] <jcoxon> one is for GPS, and there are in theory 3 more available
[23:34] <jcoxon> actually make that 2 more
[23:35] <rocketboy> and some GPIO
[23:35] <jcoxon> i2c, 4 ADCs, usb client
[23:35] <rocketboy> looks good
[23:36] <jcoxon> its pretty good
[23:37] <jcoxon> i used one for peg IV
[23:37] <rocketboy> I'll do a bit more digging into it tomorrow
[23:37] <jcoxon> can do PWM though i'm not sure how quick it is at doing it that
[23:37] <rocketboy> well - one way may be to use PICs as peripherals - via I2C or serial
[23:38] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:38] <jcoxon> one serial for radio
[23:38] <jcoxon> does leave a spare serial
[23:38] <rocketboy> the PICS can do the time critial stuff - and the gumsix the compute
[23:39] <rocketboy> you could have a serial output bus - with a simple addressing protocol
[23:39] <jcoxon> so very similar to the robostix but with PICS rather then AVR
[23:39] <rocketboy> then you could string servo control, radio ... on the same serial port
[23:40] <rocketboy> - sound like it
[23:41] <rocketboy> a bus system would make it easy to expand
[23:41] <rocketboy> BTW: I borrowed a mates model aircraft simulator today - just to see how difficult it was to fly models - my opinion:
[23:41] <rocketboy> Flying - easy
[23:42] <rocketboy> Takeoff - harder
[23:42] <rocketboy> Landing - uggggg
[23:42] <jcoxon> right
[23:42] <jcoxon> how about a parachute assistend landing?
[23:42] <rocketboy> that would be relativly easy
[23:43] <rocketboy> - as long as the deployment speed was not too high
[23:44] <jcoxon> gonna require serious testing
[23:45] <jcoxon> shall i start a new wiki page?
[23:45] <rocketboy> sounds like a good idea
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[23:58] <rocketboy> So I'll need linux or coLinix on my PC as the development environment for the gumstix?
[23:58] <phatmonkey> rocketboy, i fly (or at least used to, i haven't for a while now) r/c planes at a local club
[23:58] <phatmonkey> but i must get some sleep, night guys
[00:00] --- Sat Nov 25 2006