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[17:05] <jcoxon> hmmm there is meant to be a nova launch tomorrow
[17:05] <jcoxon> should really find out if its happening :-p
[17:08] <phatmonkey> hey jcoxon
[17:08] <jcoxon> hey phatmonkey
[17:09] <phatmonkey> what's happening with the launches then
[17:09] <phatmonkey> i don't really know what's going on#
[17:09] <jcoxon> which launches? :-)
[17:09] <phatmonkey> i have no idea!
[17:09] <jcoxon> nova?
[17:10] <phatmonkey> my gumstix has been sitting in a box looking rather sad, and i haven't touched the software for a while
[17:10] <phatmonkey> yeah
[17:10] <phatmonkey> and pegasus?
[17:10] <jcoxon> oh right
[17:10] <jcoxon> well nova is was moving along nicely when i last checked
[17:11] <jcoxon> just i've had a busy week so haven't been to any meetings
[17:11] <jcoxon> though in my diary i have a launch down for tomorrow
[17:11] <phatmonkey> nice
[17:11] <jcoxon> but i haven't heard anything since
[17:11] <jcoxon> now pegasus
[17:11] <jcoxon> pegasus is sleeping
[17:12] <jcoxon> firstly i don't have it here with me
[17:13] <jcoxon> and secondly i'm not sure really what to do
[17:13] <phatmonkey> not sure what to do about the slug project either
[17:14] <phatmonkey> glider seems a bit out of reach at the moment
[17:14] <phatmonkey> well, unless we worked on it together
[17:14] <phatmonkey> bits of pegasus and the slug project merged to push forward with a glider
[17:16] <jcoxon> the thing is that return to base and rockoons are being done by nova et al
[17:16] <jcoxon> i really want something new
[17:16] <phatmonkey> something that'll stay up there
[17:16] <jcoxon> :)
[17:16] <phatmonkey> i'd be interested in that
[17:16] <jcoxon> thats one idea
[17:16] <jcoxon> damn damn damn difficult
[17:17] <phatmonkey> we can experiment with it
[17:17] <jcoxon> hmmm
[17:17] <phatmonkey> send something simple that'll stay up for a bit and see how well it works
[17:17] <phatmonkey> something that'll stay up for a few hours say
[17:17] <phatmonkey> and we can monitor how far it moves etc
[17:17] <phatmonkey> then we can decide if it's a waste of time or not!
[17:17] <jcoxon> a valve would do the job
[17:17] <jcoxon> and ballast drop
[17:19] <jcoxon> hmmho
[17:19] <phatmonkey> and a glider to bring it back down
[17:19] <phatmonkey> whee
[17:19] <phatmonkey> ok, maybe not
[17:20] <jcoxon> i was thinking of doing a payload which unfolded say some panels - to simulate unfolding solar panels
[17:20] <jcoxon> think it would be quite interesting
[17:20] <phatmonkey> yeah
[17:20] <jcoxon> perhaps even an aerobrake
[17:20] <jcoxon> make hte main payload small and have 4 servos to pull out 4 panels
[17:23] <jcoxon> we could not even make the panels but frames
[17:23] <jcoxon> perhaps like 4 mini parachutes
[17:23] <jcoxon> if they had spill holes they would work quite well
[17:24] <jcoxon> i've also ordered a wireless ap from ebay which can run openwrt so am going to play with that
[17:25] <phatmonkey> nice
[17:26] <phatmonkey> are the cu spaceflight guys planning to use parafoils?
[17:26] <jcoxon> yup
[17:26] <phatmonkey> oh so risky
[17:26] <phatmonkey> but so much easier too...
[17:27] <jcoxon> :-)
[17:28] <phatmonkey> maybe i should just get a parafoil
[17:28] <phatmonkey> then i could put together something in a few weeks
[17:28] <jcoxon> is it that easy?
[17:29] <phatmonkey> it wouldn't need to fly it, it'd just need to put in left/right commands
[17:29] <phatmonkey> if we could get a parafoil that worked that is
[17:30] <phatmonkey> i wonder where parachutes could come from...
[17:30] <phatmonkey> what would be really nice
[17:30] <phatmonkey> is to make a really simple flying bit
[17:30] <phatmonkey> that could be attached to other payloads
[17:30] <phatmonkey> like your pegasus idea
[17:31] <phatmonkey> so we can just hook on another payload and relaunch quickly
[17:31] <jcoxon> so a mobile phone/gumstix/gps + batteries
[17:32] <jcoxon> what is cool is that the 4 adc on the gpsstix work
[17:32] <phatmonkey> radio would be nice too
[17:32] <phatmonkey> radio, phone, gumstix, robostix, gps, batteries
[17:32] <phatmonkey> we could even drop the robostix if there is another way to control servos
[17:33] <phatmonkey> didn't you figure out how to control some PWM ports?
[17:33] <jcoxon> yup
[17:33] <jcoxon> on any gpio in theory
[17:33] <jcoxon> stuff the robostix
[17:33] <phatmonkey> sweet
[17:33] <jcoxon> wasn't actually me :-D
[17:33] <phatmonkey> i'll get the software up and see where i left it at
[17:34] <jcoxon> but i've done it
[17:34] <phatmonkey> i wonder where we can get parafoils
[17:34] <jcoxon> i'm wondering whether instead of a parafoil you could use a plain parachute
[17:34] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, not being made but you could make one...
[17:35] <phatmonkey> explain how...
[17:35] <jcoxon> what using a parachute or making a parafoil?
[17:35] <phatmonkey> how can we control conventional parachutes
[17:36] <jcoxon> wasn't sure
[17:36] <jcoxon> actually i have an idea
[17:36] <jcoxon> one sec
[17:36] <jcoxon> i'll draw it
[17:36] <phatmonkey> kk
[17:36] <jcoxon> if i can find a drawing program on my mac
[17:36] <phatmonkey> meteor, cu spaceflight's thing, is actually far more complicated than it needs to be
[17:36] <jcoxon> you reckon?
[17:37] <phatmonkey> they plan to use an intertial guidance unit and a compass
[17:37] <phatmonkey> firstly, compasses don't work, art's project proved that
[17:37] <phatmonkey> and i bet we can do navigation with only gps
[17:38] <jcoxon> hmmm
[17:38] <phatmonkey> a parafoil may well be able to stabilise itself, so we only need to put in left/right commands
[17:38] <phatmonkey> rather than controlling pitch/attitude in a similar way to a plane
[17:38] <jcoxon> while they have details on the website there are more detail plans on their wiki
[17:38] <phatmonkey> ooh, link me
[17:38] <jcoxon> can't tis a private wiki
[17:38] <phatmonkey> ah, ok
[17:39] <phatmonkey> if you take into account attitude, there is little point using a parafoil
[17:39] <phatmonkey> it's much safer and simpler to just use a plane
[17:39] <phatmonkey> well, imo anyway
[17:39] <jcoxon> how about a hybrid
[17:40] <phatmonkey> how exactly?
[17:40] <jcoxon> so a normal payload/parachute combo
[17:40] <jcoxon> but on the payload we have fins
[17:41] <jcoxon> that are normally vertically facing so that air easily slips past
[17:41] <rikstahh> hey guys
[17:41] <phatmonkey> flying with a parachute open?
[17:41] <phatmonkey> hey rikstahh
[17:41] <jcoxon> now small and i mean small variations in hte angle of the fins could perhaps add abit of direction
[17:41] <jcoxon> yeah this is when falling
[17:41] <phatmonkey> sounds.... interesting
[17:41] <jcoxon> hey rikstahh
[17:42] <phatmonkey> probably simpler just to use a parafoil
[17:42] <jcoxon> the advantage to this is that if it doesn't work the parachute is still there
[17:42] <jcoxon> this is a hell of a lot easier to test
[17:42] <phatmonkey> what do you think's best for a parafoil... a parafoil the whole flight, or open a parafoil later after descending a bit on a drogue
[17:42] <phatmonkey> yeah
[17:42] <jcoxon> as long as the parachute provides provides more drag then the payload+fins you'll be fine
[17:43] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, not sure
[17:43] <jcoxon> either have their pros and cons
[17:43] <phatmonkey> it would be interesting just to stick a payload together with a parafoil attached and just seeing what happens
[17:44] <phatmonkey> we could tag onto a nova launch i suppose
[17:45] <phatmonkey> releasing ourselves separately
[17:45] <phatmonkey> or a future pegasus
[17:46] <jcoxon> not sure nova would take a payload testing parafoils - sort of is using them for in their own game
[17:46] <phatmonkey> ah, good point, haha
[17:46] <jcoxon> pegasus is ready to launch in regards to linking a mobile phone up
[17:47] <phatmonkey> nice
[17:47] <phatmonkey> how about we just stick a parafoil on pegasus?
[17:47] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/pegasus4.html
[17:48] <phatmonkey> or maybe something separate is best
[17:48] <jcoxon> there would be no radio
[17:49] <jcoxon> well apart from a 434mhz beacon
[17:50] <jcoxon> purely because i can't do it myself and i don't want to be dependent of others continously (sorry steve if you read the logs :-D )
[17:50] <jcoxon> peg IV also has a working digital compass
[17:51] <jcoxon> we couldn't add a parafoil with out controlling it
[17:51] <jcoxon> or it would zip off it any old direction
[17:51] <phatmonkey> working as a team means more stuff gets done, steve is great at all the radio things!
[17:51] <kc0wys> hey
[17:52] <phatmonkey> hey
[17:52] <phatmonkey> how's your project going?
[17:52] <phatmonkey> i heard you found your first one
[17:53] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, oh i know! but its purely that i feel bad having to call up steve continously to help
[18:00] <kc0wys> ya its here on my desk now :)
[18:00] <kc0wys> but i havent made any progress on ensure-2
[18:00] <kc0wys> too much school work
[18:01] <kc0wys> cross country season is over though so i might have some more time
[18:02] <jcoxon> know the feeling
[18:02] <jcoxon> did anything survive from ensure-1?
[18:02] <kc0wys> pictures and videos
[18:02] <kc0wys> on my site
[18:02] <jcoxon> oh cool
[18:02] <kc0wys> :)
[18:02] <jcoxon> i'll have a look!
[18:03] <kc0wys> everything shut down after 2000 ft tho
[18:03] <kc0wys> but still its more than i had before...
[18:03] <phatmonkey> http://www.aiaa.org/content.cfm?pageid=406&gTable=Paper&gID=26838 - but it costs $25!
[18:03] <jcoxon> nasty batteries
[18:06] <phatmonkey> yeah
[18:06] <phatmonkey> we really need to send up some battery experiments
[18:06] <jcoxon> nova 2 has some
[18:06] <phatmonkey> seeing what sort of batteries survive, and how well they operate up there
[18:06] <phatmonkey> ah nice
[18:06] <phatmonkey> http://www.casde.iitb.ac.in/Publications/pdfdoc-2005/gurnani.pdf
[18:07] <phatmonkey> http://www.seabreezeparachutes.com/ - yay
[18:09] <jcoxon> now thats interesting - a paraplane
[18:10] <phatmonkey> i might send the guy an emailing asking how well they'd work for a glider
[18:13] <phatmonkey> how heavy do you think a simple payload would be?
[18:13] <phatmonkey> how heavy were the pegasuses?
[18:17] <phatmonkey> i suppose i could speed up by development by writing the software in python
[18:17] <phatmonkey> i could always write some modules in C if some bits are too slow
[18:17] <phatmonkey> like the PWM things
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[18:25] <jcoxon> what simple payload
[18:25] <jcoxon> as in what weight value do you want?
[18:27] <phatmonkey> well, roughly how much did pegasus weigh with the batteries and all
[18:27] <jcoxon> pegasuses were between 1 and 2 kg
[18:27] <phatmonkey> so we can determine what sort of chute we'll need
[18:27] <phatmonkey> thought so
[18:27] <jcoxon> though they could be made lighter
[18:27] <jcoxon> no need for the camera for example
[18:46] <phatmonkey> writing in python will make it much easier to write complex navigation algorithms
[18:46] <phatmonkey> we can transfer this over to a car if you still want to do that!
[18:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:47] <phatmonkey> is that lil car still going? the project seem to die a bit
[18:47] <jcoxon> well it got a little wet
[18:47] <jcoxon> but it did work
[18:47] <jcoxon> i'd need to put it back together
[18:48] <jcoxon> i removed the servos
[18:48] <jcoxon> to tell you the truth it isn't hte right car to use
[18:48] <jcoxon> its too fast
[18:49] <jcoxon> something like a rc tank or rc 4x4 would be better
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[23:16] <d123> jcoxon&phatmokey: I've seen your conversation about parafoils and I remember this link http://www.paraflite.com/ Take a look over microfly
[23:17] <d123> I know that it might be expensive so it might not really help you guys but it's worth taking a look
[23:18] <d123> and it's working with free fall deployment via a drogue chute
[23:32] <d123> also the problem with parafoil might be linetwists
[23:33] <d123> if the opening is not done at terminal velocity (sub terminal opening) like you exit the plane and open right away (hop&pop) I'm getting like 1 jump out of 6 to with linetwist
[23:35] <d123> usually they are not bad if you have a docile parachute but they render the parachute unsteareble until you solve them by kicking with you legs the opposite way of the twist
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 4 2006