highaltitude.log.20060910

[00:00] <icez> good
[00:00] <icez> getting bored of the 'reviewing' part though
[00:00] <icez> like last week i had to do an 'hello, world' in C++
[00:00] <icez> :P
[00:01] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:12] <jcoxon> night all
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[10:33] Nick change: Henry -> HenryH
[10:36] <HenryH> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~hmh33/nova1_data.zip KML file from Nova 1 here. 32km / 105,000 ft
[10:36] Nick change: HenryH -> Henry|launchingM
[10:37] Nick change: Henry|launchingM -> Henry|MiHAB
[10:40] <jcoxon> hey henry
[10:41] <jcoxon> good luck with the launch
[11:15] <jcoxon> some launch and retrieval pics:
[11:15] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/nova/
[11:55] <malgar> wow
[11:55] <malgar> i see a new domain!
[12:57] <jcoxon> yeah - i need more space
[13:18] <jcoxon> oooo i've found a cheap i2c digital compass
[13:18] <jcoxon> http://www.active-robots.com/products/sensors/sensors-details-6.shtml
[13:21] <malgar> :D
[13:22] <jcoxon> hows it going malgar
[13:22] <jcoxon> ?
[13:22] <malgar> a bit of headache but it's ok
[13:23] <jcoxon> oh right
[13:23] <jcoxon> watch the shuttle launch?
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[20:50] <Henry|MiHAB> MiHAB made it to 24km
[20:50] Nick change: Henry|MiHAB -> HenryH
[20:50] <HenryH> radio worked all the way with data
[20:51] <HenryH> the parachute disappeared somewhere along the way and it freefell from 24km
[20:51] <HenryH> one corner of the case was pretty dented but everything still worked
[20:55] <HenryH> Some flight photos from Nova 1: http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/NovaSelectedPhotos/Nova/
[20:58] <icez> :D
[20:58] <icez> nova 1 is yours too?
[21:00] <HenryH> nova 1 is mine, carl's and robert's (with help from steve, james and others)
[21:00] <HenryH> MiHAB isn't mine, it's Laurence's, I just helped him launch and he used our CAA permission
[21:00] <icez> wow..
[21:01] <icez> love the pictures
[21:01] <icez> :D
[21:01] <HenryH> :)
[21:08] <icez> how did the camera take different size pictures?
[21:08] <icez> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/NovaSelectedPhotos/Nova/100_0833.jpg and http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/NovaSelectedPhotos/Nova/100_0836.jpg aren't the same
[21:09] <phatmonkey> wow
[21:10] <phatmonkey> lovely photos
[21:10] <phatmonkey> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/NovaSelectedPhotos/Nova/100_0619.jpg
[21:10] <HenryH> Carl chose that selection and he must have edited them a bit because the camera was upside down, so maybe he cropped them or something
[21:10] <HenryH> I'm just working on a thumbnailed image gallery version
[21:10] <icez> ok
[21:11] <HenryH> it looks like those two are the same size but one is rotated 90 degrees
[21:14] <icez> oh ok
[21:22] <HenryH> you guys all got 1280 res monitors? (for the web gallery)
[21:27] <kc0wys> hey
[21:28] <HenryH> hi
[21:28] <phatmonkey> HenryH, just put them on flickr ;)
[21:29] <kc0wys> wait you already launched nova??
[21:29] <HenryH> will flickr mind if I have 700MB of them?
[21:29] <HenryH> yes yesterday
[21:29] <kc0wys> oh sweet
[21:29] <HenryH> 32km, 105,000ft
[21:30] <kc0wys> nice! must have had a big balloon?
[21:30] <HenryH> 800g balloon
[21:30] <HenryH> I worked out that it should have burst around 29km
[21:30] <HenryH> the balloon must have been better than spec
[21:30] <kc0wys> oh :)
[21:31] <HenryH> it seems I can only upload 20MB per month to flickr
[21:32] <kc0wys> what kind of data transmtter did nova have?
[21:33] <HenryH> two 434MHz 10mW licence-exempt modules
[21:33] <HenryH> one transmitting audible morse code
[21:33] <HenryH> the other (rocketboy's radio experiment) sending 4800 baud data by FSK
[21:34] <HenryH> that one cut out around 20km
[21:34] <HenryH> but MiHAB (launched today) had a similar device running at 300 baud and it worked throughout the flight
[21:34] <HenryH> we added an attenuator to make a simulated range of about 400km and that still worked ok
[21:35] <HenryH> not bad for something transmitting at 25% of the power of a standard LED
[21:36] <HenryH> in any case I think the 300 baud version would be limited by the curvature of the earth before anything else
[21:36] <HenryH> so it's pretty sweet
[21:39] <jcoxon> hey HenryH
[21:42] <HenryH> hi
[21:43] <jcoxon> very nice pics
[21:43] <jcoxon> do you want some webspace
[21:44] <jcoxon> i've got loads of webspace on my new domain
[21:44] <icez> your new domain?:)
[21:44] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:44] <jcoxon> what happened to mihab2?
[21:45] <HenryH> I'm putting them on Greg's server at the moment but we'd definitely like some space to put up the website (which should be finished sometime next week)
[21:45] <HenryH> it cratered :)
[21:45] <HenryH> the parachute disappeared somewhere during the flight, best guess is at burst point (24km IIRC)
[21:46] <HenryH> so it freefell all that way and ended up with a sizeable dent on one corner of the case but apparently no other damage
[21:46] <HenryH> the phone and radio still worked fine
[21:46] <jcoxon> wow
[21:46] <jcoxon> brilliant
[21:46] <jcoxon> so laurence is pleased then
[21:46] <HenryH> we had data all the way through to about 1km on the descent (and it was only sending once per 70 seconds)
[21:46] <HenryH> yes
[21:47] <HenryH> actually I think "the descent" isn't really the appropriate wording
[21:47] <HenryH> data through to 1km on the plummet
[21:47] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:47] <jcoxon> brilliant
[21:47] <jcoxon> the weather was excellent i thought
[21:47] <kc0wys> HenryH: nice :)
[21:47] <jcoxon> your pictures are really really nice
[21:47] <HenryH> yes perfect weather really
[21:48] <HenryH> thanks, quite a lot of ground shots but some good pictures in there
[21:48] <jcoxon> i've added nova to the uk records
[21:48] <HenryH> :D
[21:48] <jcoxon> your clearly in the lead
[21:48] <HenryH> the gallery should be up in 10 mins or so
[21:48] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/uk_records
[21:48] <kc0wys> I had great results with 25 baud, to 700 metres, at least :P
[21:48] <HenryH> hahaha
[21:49] <kc0wys> it's fun to watch individual characters pop up one by one :P
[21:50] <kc0wys> well there are practical reasons why i was at 25 baud
[21:50] <HenryH> well I was decoding the morse from Nova by ear once the data radio had stopped working
[21:50] <kc0wys> oh :/
[21:50] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:50] <HenryH> it was great, driving at 70mph with Carl holding the 6ft Yagi antenna out of the sunroof and me trying to copy the Morse
[21:51] <kc0wys> haha
[21:51] <kc0wys> that would make a good picture
[21:51] <jcoxon> HenryH, how many MP is hte camera?
[21:52] <HenryH> 5
[21:52] <HenryH> but those are 5 somewhat crappy MP
[21:52] <HenryH> the lens isn't that great
[21:52] <HenryH> and it's fixed focus, and not fixed on infinity
[21:52] <HenryH> the pics look reasonable at screen resolution though
[21:54] <jcoxon> what size balloon did mihab use?
[21:54] <HenryH> 350g
[21:55] <HenryH> the payload weighed 650g and we put in a lot of helium since we didn't even launch until 4:30pm
[21:55] <HenryH> as it was we only just recovered it before sunset
[21:55] <jcoxon> so whats the plan now?
[21:56] <HenryH> hopefully launch in fresher's week or perhaps the following week (to get some exposure in the engineering dept)
[21:56] <HenryH> with video
[21:56] <HenryH> and a data radio similar to the one Steve made for Laurence but even lower baud
[21:57] <HenryH> maybe several cameras
[21:57] <HenryH> then work on paraglider and rocket
[21:57] <HenryH> we're insured for 9 more launches
[21:57] <HenryH> we do need to extend the CAA permission
[21:57] <jcoxon> right
[21:58] <jcoxon> i'm going to order some balloons - do you guys need some?
[21:58] <HenryH> hm
[21:58] <HenryH> yes
[21:58] <HenryH> where are you ordering from?
[21:58] <jcoxon> and i plan to launch Peg IV near the end of october
[21:58] <jcoxon> HenryH, one sec i'll forward the email
[22:00] <HenryH> ta
[22:03] <phatmonkey> it survived a freefall! nice!
[22:03] <phatmonkey> so the slower radio works perfectly?
[22:04] <phatmonkey> this is good news - i've been planning for 300 baud
[22:04] <HenryH> yes it was very good
[22:04] <HenryH> you do need a Yagi antenna and a fairly decent receiver
[22:04] <HenryH> the signal was a bit wobbly and we dropped a few packets shortly after the balloon burst
[22:05] <HenryH> but considering it was tumbling all over the place with no parachutes I think that's quite reasonable
[22:05] <phatmonkey> haha
[22:06] <phatmonkey> i wonder what sort of speed it was going at impact
[22:06] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, wouldn't be difficult to work out
[22:06] <phatmonkey> not something i was planning for, but it might be worth thinking about
[22:06] <phatmonkey> yeah
[22:06] <HenryH> my guess is about 25mph
[22:06] <HenryH> I haven't seen the log though
[22:07] <HenryH> but the damage was consistent with that
[22:07] <HenryH> you could definitely design the payload to survive it
[22:07] <HenryH> but it hurt a lot if it hit you on the head
[22:07] <HenryH> and might damage property too
[22:08] <HenryH> would*
[22:08] <jcoxon> what type of parachute was it?
[22:08] <HenryH> similar to ours but 36"
[22:08] <HenryH> it wasn't the parachute itself that failed though
[22:08] <HenryH> it was some bit of plastic tube
[22:09] <jcoxon> oh
[22:09] <HenryH> I don't know very much about how Laurence built it, he'll have to explain when he gets home
[22:09] <phatmonkey> do the payloads tumble about a lot after releasing from the balloon?
[22:09] <HenryH> I think they do for a minute or two
[22:09] <phatmonkey> if i'm releasing all these paper planes, i don't want them to get all tangled up
[22:09] <HenryH> more so if there's no parachute ;)
[22:10] <HenryH> yeah I'd wait until the balloon's fallen under its parachute for a minute or so before you release them
[22:10] <phatmonkey> i wonder if it tumbles enough for the parachute to actually get tangled
[22:10] <HenryH> could do
[22:11] <HenryH> something weird happened with Nova
[22:11] <HenryH> when we found it, the bottom half of the balloon was still attached, more or less as expected
[22:11] <HenryH> the top half had shredded itself but most of the shreds seem to have tangled themselves up in the parachute and payload cords
[22:11] <HenryH> the chute still worked well enough though
[22:12] <phatmonkey> i suppose a cutdown should always be activated then to get rid of all the balloon pieces
[22:12] <jcoxon> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/NovaSelectedPhotos/Nova/100_0746.jpg
[22:12] <jcoxon> ?
[22:12] <phatmonkey> looking upwards
[22:12] <phatmonkey> ?
[22:12] <phatmonkey> i guess those are pieces of the ballioon
[22:13] <HenryH> yes that's what I think
[22:13] <HenryH> video will be interesting
[22:13] <HenryH> we'll try to fly one with cameras all over the place
[22:14] <HenryH> try to get video of the balloon bursting
[22:14] <jcoxon> do you plan to transmit video?
[22:14] <jcoxon> or just record?
[22:14] <HenryH> just record I think
[22:15] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:15] <HenryH> the 300 baud data will support an image every 5 mins or so
[22:15] <HenryH> but it's something of a hassle to prepare the data
[22:15] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:15] <phatmonkey> if 300 was so good, i wonder if it's possible to go a little higher
[22:15] <HenryH> maybe a bit
[22:15] <HenryH> 600 or possibly 1200
[22:16] <phatmonkey> but 300 is masses for simple position data i suppose
[22:16] <HenryH> yes
[22:16] <phatmonkey> but it might struggle with all the data for a glider
[22:16] <HenryH> well it's 30 characters per second
[22:16] <HenryH> that's quite a lot
[22:16] <HenryH> more if you send binary
[22:16] <phatmonkey> yeah
[22:16] <HenryH> well, more numbers anyway
[22:17] <phatmonkey> i should start getting some software ready
[22:17] <jcoxon> oooooo i can see my room!
[22:17] <HenryH> :)
[22:17] <HenryH> which one?
[22:17] <jcoxon> for next year that is
[22:17] <jcoxon> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/NovaSelectedPhotos/Nova/100_0281.jpg
[22:18] <jcoxon> find kings chapel
[22:18] <jcoxon> then find Catz
[22:18] <jcoxon> my Set next year is in main court
[22:18] <HenryH> nice
[22:18] <phatmonkey> hehe
[22:19] <HenryH> it would be cool to launch a low-lift one from Parker's Piece to get some good pictures of the city
[22:19] <phatmonkey> what protocol did you use for the radio? just dumping data down the serial interface?
[22:19] <HenryH> I think ATC would be less happy though
[22:19] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:19] <HenryH> effectively yes, with a start and stop byte
[22:19] <HenryH> I'm not sure what Steve did with it inside his module
[22:20] <jcoxon> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/NovaSelectedPhotos/Nova/100_0322.jpg
[22:20] <jcoxon> HenryH, radio black magic
[22:20] <jcoxon> can see my room in this one as well
[22:22] Action: jcoxon made his first circuit today with a 555 timer
[22:25] <HenryH> woo
[22:25] <HenryH> how many did you blow up?
[22:25] <jcoxon> none!
[22:26] <jcoxon> i know - impressive
[22:26] <jcoxon> once i work out the correct capacitor/resistor ratios
[22:26] <phatmonkey> nice!
[22:26] <jcoxon> gonna attach it to an old camera and have it take every minute of so
[22:27] <phatmonkey> why don't we add a payload to the train with just a video camera?
[22:27] <phatmonkey> just leave it running
[22:27] <HenryH> yes that would be good
[22:28] <jcoxon> peg II had a video camera
[22:28] <phatmonkey> if we have the other payloads, we're not going to lose it
[22:28] <HenryH> but a digital still camera with a 4gb card taking photos every 3 seconds would make for a nice time-lapse
[22:28] <phatmonkey> aah, i didn't know that
[22:28] <phatmonkey> was it a good video camera?
[22:28] <jcoxon> ebay
[22:28] <jcoxon> £30
[22:28] <phatmonkey> if we got an old analogue camera or something
[22:28] <phatmonkey> it would be decent quality
[22:28] <phatmonkey> and cheap
[22:28] <jcoxon> they are v. heavy
[22:29] <phatmonkey> true
[22:29] <jcoxon> at present my payload is this:
[22:29] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/pegasus4.html
[22:31] <HenryH> yes the beacon still exists ;) Steve has it
[22:31] <jcoxon> found an i2c digital compass
[22:31] <jcoxon> well i've got a spare TTL serial port as well
[22:31] <jcoxon> so could go the data route
[22:31] <HenryH> yes for goodness' sake send telemetry
[22:31] <HenryH> nobody has an excuse not to
[22:31] <phatmonkey> i'll just have a data radio and gps - as long as you have the phone
[22:32] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:32] <phatmonkey> i should probably get some sleep
[22:32] <phatmonkey> school tomorrow :(
[22:32] <jcoxon> night phatmonkey
[22:33] <HenryH> night
[22:36] <jcoxon> hmmho
[22:36] <jcoxon> trying to work out how to make a modular case
[22:37] <HenryH> have you seen the details of the Nova modules and how they connect together?
[22:37] <HenryH> I think it works quite wel
[22:37] <HenryH> l
[22:37] <HenryH> the blue foam is definitely the way to go
[22:37] <HenryH> brb
[22:39] <HenryH> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/nova1gallery/
[22:40] <HenryH> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/nova1gallery/target576.html this is one of my favourites
[22:40] <jcoxon> lots of carl's feet :-p
[22:41] <HenryH> aww yeah
[22:41] <HenryH> some nice ones of his belly too
[22:41] <jcoxon> hehe
[22:42] <jcoxon> the clouds that day are amazing
[22:42] <HenryH> yep
[22:42] <HenryH> the photos are 15 seconds apart
[22:43] <jcoxon> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/nova1gallery/target565.html
[22:44] <jcoxon> http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/nova1gallery/target630.html
[22:44] <jcoxon> hmmm
[22:45] <HenryH> the wires?
[22:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:45] <jcoxon> what are they from?
[22:45] <HenryH> those are the cutdown wires
[22:45] <HenryH> the cutdown didn't fire
[22:45] <jcoxon> oh right
[22:45] <HenryH> they got detached some time after burst
[22:45] <jcoxon> in regards to camera and battery life
[22:45] <HenryH> it would have taken a fair force to tug them out of the terminal block
[22:46] <jcoxon> 857 image is alot
[22:46] <HenryH> both battery packs were above 6V after the flight
[22:46] <HenryH> I didn't test the camera batteries
[22:46] <HenryH> but they lasted at least long enough to download all the photos once we were back in the lab
[22:46] <jcoxon> right
[22:46] <jcoxon> thats impressive
[22:46] <HenryH> turning the screen off certainly helps
[22:46] <jcoxon> did it stay off?
[22:46] <HenryH> having a fixed focus lens is probably good too
[22:46] <HenryH> yes
[22:46] <HenryH> well
[22:46] <jcoxon> some turn on the screen when it takes a photo
[22:47] <HenryH> it comes on for a second or two every time it takes a picture
[22:47] <HenryH> but it's mostly off
[22:47] <jcoxon> right
[22:47] <jcoxon> i'm gonna do a test of my 6MP camera
[22:47] <jcoxon> see how long it can take photos for
[22:47] <HenryH> ok
[22:47] <HenryH> we used two lithium AAs in the camera
[22:48] <jcoxon> yeah thats what it takes
[22:48] <HenryH> remember temperature may affect the life too
[22:48] <jcoxon> HenryH, do you mind if i link the nova gallery from the ukhas wiki?
[22:48] <jcoxon> HenryH, would that be better or for worse?
[22:49] <HenryH> go ahead
[22:49] <HenryH> I was just wondering how to edit the ukhas wiki / homepage
[22:49] <jcoxon> the wiki is a wiki
[22:49] <jcoxon> but phatmonkey will have to do the main website
[22:49] <HenryH> I think it will affect the life for worse, probably
[22:50] <jcoxon> i can't remember my admin password for it
[22:50] <HenryH> ok
[22:50] <HenryH> certainly the voltage at the time will be lower
[22:50] <HenryH> but once you warm it up again, whether more capacity will have been used.. I don't know
[22:50] <HenryH> I do know lithiums are less affected than alkalines by temperature
[22:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[22:50] <HenryH> also if everything's in a lot of foam it won't get too cold
[22:51] <jcoxon> indeed
[22:51] <jcoxon> hehe someone just asked me on the gumstix channel if XP runs on a gumstix
[22:53] <icez> :/
[22:54] <HenryH> haha
[22:56] <jcoxon> i think he/she meant windows ce
[23:00] <HenryH> brb food
[23:01] <icez> i wouldn't trust windows on my balloon!:)
[23:04] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:09] <jcoxon> right i'm off to bed,
[23:09] <jcoxon> night all
[23:09] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@81-178-160-64.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving"
[23:25] <HenryH> back
[23:31] rocketboy (n=steve@217.47.75.5) joined #highaltitude.
[23:37] <HenryH> Hi Steve
[23:48] <rocketboy> Hi Henry
[23:48] <rocketboy> I just sent an email with the radio logs from today/yesterday
[23:49] <HenryH> cool thanks
[23:49] <HenryH> I have the photos from Nova up at http://www.hemp-blog.com/nova/nova1gallery/index.html
[23:50] <rocketboy> thanks - I'll have a deco
[23:54] <rocketboy> excellent - what package do you use to generate the thumbnails/html
[23:55] <rocketboy> ah picasa
[23:55] <HenryH> yes I just tried it today
[23:55] <HenryH> it's not bad
[23:56] <HenryH> I'd still like a package that will generate three sets of images, thumbnails, full-window sized and full resolution
[23:56] <rocketboy> I have some snaps of the launch etc - I'll put them up tomorrow
[23:57] <HenryH> cool
[23:57] <rocketboy> Anyways - I'm off to grab some sleep - I email tomorrow
[23:57] <rocketboy> TTFN
[23:57] <HenryH> night
[23:57] <HenryH> thanks for everything
[23:57] rocketboy (n=steve@217.47.75.5) left irc: "Leaving"
[00:00] --- Mon Sep 11 2006