highaltitude.log.20060809

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[00:54] <kc0wys> it seems to me y'all think i'm lying
[00:54] <kc0wys> well i'm not, if that makes a difference
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[01:02] <Tiger^> what would you be lying about? :P
[01:03] <kc0wys> my being fifteen
[01:06] <Tiger^> oh
[01:06] <Tiger^> i don't think you're lying :)
[01:07] <kc0wys> yay :)
[01:17] <phatmonkey> course we don't :D
[01:18] <phatmonkey> i think it's great that younger people are doing this sort of thing
[01:18] <phatmonkey> well, i think it's quite amazing that it's so cheap and easy to do really
[01:19] <phatmonkey> it isn't such a giant leap to attach a big rocket and send it to space...
[01:22] <phatmonkey> i've been in contact with a physics teacher at my school about it, and they'll probably find some experiments for sending up there. have you done something like that kc0wys?
[01:45] <kc0wys> well, yea, but not officially
[01:46] <kc0wys> there's a competition for a $100,000 scholarship to go to any university hosted by Siemens and a friend and I are discussing designing a geosynchronous, long-distance WiFi balloon satellite
[01:46] <kc0wys> er not "any university hosted by Siemens" i mean the competition is hosted by Siemens
[01:46] <kc0wys> bad wording
[01:47] <kc0wys> and so ensure-2 will be the communications module for that project, if it goes through
[01:47] <kc0wys> or rather, the backup communications module
[01:48] <kc0wys> so now the friend and I are looking for (a) sponsor(s)
[01:58] <phatmonkey> very nice
[01:59] <phatmonkey> kc0wys, what sort of ideas do you have for keeping the satellite in place? compressed air? massive props? ion thrusters? ;)
[02:03] <kc0wys> that is the tricky part :(
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[02:03] <macfreak4> woops did that get through? dsl sucks...
[02:06] <phatmonkey> <kc0wys> that is the tricky part :(
[02:06] <phatmonkey> taht was the last thing
[02:07] <macfreak4> oh okay
[02:07] <macfreak4> then i said: [20:03] <kc0wys> i was considering liquid oxygen and hydrogen
[02:07] <macfreak4> [20:03] <kc0wys> hehe just kidding
[02:07] <macfreak4> then i thought about model rocket engines
[02:08] <macfreak4> but appearantly those dont work at high altitudes
[02:08] <phatmonkey> and hard to control
[02:08] <macfreak4> for this project we would probably hang out around 60,000 - 70,000 ft, right above FAA governship
[02:08] <phatmonkey> solar power and large efficient props? i dunno how much air there is for that sort of thing
[02:08] <phatmonkey> yeah
[02:08] <macfreak4> ya that's what i'm going to try
[02:09] <phatmonkey> it isn't going to mvoe around much above the jetstream
[02:09] <macfreak4> right
[02:09] <macfreak4> which is good!
[02:09] <macfreak4> but yeah we are definitely going to have everything be run off of solar panels
[02:09] <phatmonkey> try hooking up a large prop to a payload and see what effect it has i suppose
[02:09] <phatmonkey> yes
[02:09] <macfreak4> we'll also be above cloud cover, so we can have predictable solar availability
[02:10] <phatmonkey> sounds very interesting
[02:10] <macfreak4> well the science dept has a near-vacuum chamber, we'll probably try out the prop idea in there first
[02:10] <phatmonkey> oh that is useful
[02:11] <macfreak4> ya :)
[02:11] <phatmonkey> how big?
[02:11] <macfreak4> not big -- it'll be a challenge
[02:11] <macfreak4> it's cylindrical
[02:11] <macfreak4> about 10" wide, probably a foot tall
[02:11] <phatmonkey> ah, i see
[02:12] <macfreak4> i'd guess the load on the motor would be less, though, being less air to move ;)
[02:12] <phatmonkey> yeah, but you'll need huge props for it to be efficient enough
[02:12] <phatmonkey> otherwise the motors just going to rev really fast and do very little
[02:13] <macfreak4> yeah
[02:13] <macfreak4> i'm doubting it'll be very feasible, though
[02:14] <macfreak4> i was, however, looking at paintball gun tanks the other day and they're pretty lightweight
[02:14] <macfreak4> and cheap
[02:14] <macfreak4> though the capacity would be a limiting factor
[02:15] <phatmonkey> yes
[02:15] <phatmonkey> or you could just fire paintballs
[02:15] <phatmonkey> hehe
[02:15] <macfreak4> ooh idea!
[02:15] <macfreak4> gas model airplane engines!
[02:16] <phatmonkey> they won't run without air!
[02:16] <macfreak4> haha lol
[02:16] <macfreak4> :)
[02:16] <phatmonkey> :P
[02:17] <phatmonkey> well, maybe some sort of hydrogen powered engine might be more efficient than an electric motor?
[02:17] <macfreak4> hmm i havent looked into this so i couldnt say
[02:17] <phatmonkey> a bit limiting though, you have unlimited supplies of electricity
[02:18] <macfreak4> wait, not nesessarily
[02:18] <macfreak4> you can get hydrogen from the air
[02:18] <macfreak4> it could produce its own
[02:18] <phatmonkey> water vapour?
[02:19] <macfreak4> hehe i duno
[02:19] <macfreak4> at any rate this is going to take a lot of experimentation
[02:19] <phatmonkey> yup
[02:19] <phatmonkey> gas seems impractical to me
[02:20] <phatmonkey> you'd need huge canisters to keep it up for any length of time
[02:20] <phatmonkey> what sort of balloons are youg oing to use?
[02:20] <macfreak4> what size, you mean?
[02:21] <macfreak4> http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/gokart.htm
[02:21] <phatmonkey> zero pressure? airship style thing?
[02:21] <macfreak4> oh
[02:21] <phatmonkey> now that is entertainment
[02:21] <macfreak4> lol ya
[02:22] <macfreak4> umm yeah balloons...
[02:22] <macfreak4> i was thinking about a regular old latex balloon and let air out with a solenoid until it becomes neutrally buoyant
[02:22] <macfreak4> and then ballast to fine-tune it
[02:22] <macfreak4> like sand or something
[02:22] <phatmonkey> yeah
[02:22] <phatmonkey> how long will those balloons last?
[02:23] <macfreak4> problem is 1. latex leaks 2. difference between night and day in terms of buoyancy will probably be a problem
[02:23] <macfreak4> not sure
[02:23] <phatmonkey> i'd better get some sleep :/
[02:23] <macfreak4> all right
[02:23] <macfreak4> cya
[02:23] <phatmonkey> night
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[02:43] <macfreak4> hey
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[06:15] <kc0wys> E-2 page is up: http://kc0wys.homeunix.com/projects/ensure2/index.html
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[07:29] <icez> nice box kco
[07:29] <icez> kc0wys:
[07:29] <icez> :P
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[14:25] <Tiger^> hey jcoxon
[14:53] <jcoxon> hey Tiger^
[14:54] Action: Tiger^ is looking for a job in the UK ;>
[14:54] <jcoxon> oh wow
[14:54] <jcoxon> what sort of job?
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[14:54] <Tiger^> well i'm a unix admin. Solaris, Linux, IRIX
[14:55] <jcoxon> oh right
[14:55] <jcoxon> cool
[14:55] <Tiger^> yeah, i gave up trying to find a job here
[14:56] <jcoxon> jcoxon, needs to find a job
[14:56] <Tiger^> oh
[14:56] <jcoxon> but only a summer job
[14:56] <jcoxon> for 6 weeks
[14:57] <Tiger^> hmm, jobsite.co.uk? :)
[14:57] <jcoxon> i've got some ideas for places nearby - am going to write some letters tomorrow
[14:57] <jcoxon> but if not i'll check it out
[14:57] <Tiger^> great :)
[14:58] <Tiger^> so far, i only got one offer from a friend
[14:58] <Tiger^> but it's in Cork :/
[14:58] <jcoxon> ireland!
[14:58] <Tiger^> i'm not sure i want to live in Ireland
[14:58] <Tiger^> plus i hate small cities
[14:59] <Tiger^> and Cork is like, um, 120000
[14:59] <jcoxon> Tiger^, well there is always a place on the ukhas space project :-p
[14:59] <jcoxon> if it exisited :-p
[15:00] <Tiger^> ;P
[15:07] <phatmonkey> hehe
[15:07] <phatmonkey> hi all
[15:08] <jcoxon> hey phatmonkey
[15:08] <Tiger^> hi phatmonkey
[15:08] <phatmonkey> i guess you didn't get anything up in africa then?
[15:09] <jcoxon> nah
[15:09] <jcoxon> but it was probably for hte best
[15:09] <jcoxon> i have cameras and a gumstix still
[15:10] <Tiger^> so... on to peg IV? :)
[15:10] <jcoxon> indeed
[15:10] <jcoxon> though i have a slightly new direction
[15:11] <jcoxon> going to look into spin stabalisation
[15:12] <Tiger^> great
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[15:12] <phatmonkey> nice
[15:13] <jcoxon> i was chatting to some scientists and they were saying that they struggle to measure the altitude of cloud tops
[15:13] <jcoxon> and so if a camera/payload can be stabalised
[15:13] <jcoxon> you can take stereopictures
[15:13] <jcoxon> and therefore calculate the cloud top altitude
[15:14] <phatmonkey> interesting
[15:22] <jcoxon> twill be tough though
[15:22] <jcoxon> lower altitudes can be achieved with a "rudder"
[15:22] <jcoxon> but high altitudes with low pressure and air densitiy might cause problems
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[17:40] <jcoxon> malgar, ever get the rocket down from the tree?
[17:41] <malgar> no.. bought another one
[17:41] <jcoxon> right
[17:41] <malgar> and less powerful motors
[17:44] <jcoxon> i launched a model rocket once
[17:44] <jcoxon> was a good 10 years ago though
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[22:12] <jcoxon> back
[22:17] <phatmonkey> hey
[22:19] <LaurenceB> Photos were cool!
[22:19] <LaurenceB> What sort of balloons were you launching?
[22:20] <jcoxon> sealed mylar
[22:20] <jcoxon> the biggest one was 12000m3
[22:21] <LaurenceB> where these solar heated/MIR balloons or just normal zero pressure ones?
[22:22] <jcoxon> no MIRs
[22:22] <jcoxon> weren't appropriate
[22:22] <jcoxon> the flights were relatively short
[22:23] <LaurenceB> Did you launch pegasus 4?
[22:23] <jcoxon> they actually weren't true zero pressues
[22:23] <jcoxon> as they didn't have the valve at the bottom
[22:24] <jcoxon> but at the top and it was under much more control then normal zero pressures
[22:24] <jcoxon> nah i didn't launch peg 4
[22:25] <LaurenceB> Any news on the nova project?
[22:25] <jcoxon> literally got back today so no
[22:27] <LaurenceB> I'm working on MiHAB2, steve is building a radio for it, and I've got a temperature sensor and 3m pixel camera
[22:27] <jcoxon> excellent
[22:28] <jcoxon> potential launch date?
[22:28] <LaurenceB> I've got a problem with data storage tho , thought I could store messages on the phone but it will only let me store 15
[22:28] <jcoxon> hmmm
[22:29] <LaurenceB> I would have been able to launch next weekend but now I'll have to solve this problem
[22:29] <jcoxon> are you in contact with carl and henry?
[22:30] <jcoxon> cause i'm not in cambridge till october
[22:31] <LaurenceB> Yes I'll text them
[22:32] <LaurenceB> I've got a I2C eeprom chip but it's a bit complicated to interface with
[22:33] <LaurenceB> my compiler is limited to 4K as well
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[22:35] <jcoxon> hmmm
[22:35] <LaurenceB> http://members.aon.at/voegel/ is an interesting site for bascom avr
[22:35] <jcoxon> i've never had to worry about space :-)
[22:35] <LaurenceB> thats the compiler I'm using
[22:36] <jcoxon> right
[22:36] <LaurenceB> If I bought bascom avr full version I could use the add on library to interface with mmc cards and other cool stuff
[22:37] <LaurenceB> I might have to do that but it is about £60
[22:38] <jcoxon> hmmm
[22:38] <LaurenceB> I've just thought, if I used avr-dos and a digital camera, I could copy jpegs off the card, cool!!
[22:39] <jcoxon> :-D
[22:40] <LaurenceB> Gumsticks are probably still superior tho
[22:41] <jcoxon> hmmm they have their pros and cons
[22:42] <jcoxon> i'm quite interested in this:
[22:42] <jcoxon> http://www.acmesystems.it/?id=4
[22:42] <LaurenceB> How do you copy and paste off irc?
[22:43] <jcoxon> depends
[22:43] <jcoxon> i right click on links
[22:43] <LaurenceB> ah I see :-D
[22:44] <LaurenceB> This looks mad!
[22:44] <jcoxon> right i have to go to bed
[22:44] <jcoxon> speak to you all soon
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[22:45] <LaurenceB> BRB
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 10 2006