highaltitude.log.20060726

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[00:55] <KC0WYS> wow this is weird
[00:56] <KC0WYS> this camera can only take 30 pictures with two AA batteries, but with three I'm already on picture 173 and it's still going
[00:57] <icez> cool
[00:57] Action: KC0WYS thinks that Kodak doesn't know how to make a decent camera
[00:57] <KC0WYS> :)
[00:58] <KC0WYS> i was pretty discouraged at first, because i wanted to take a lot of pictures during the flight, but now this is looking really good
[00:59] <icez> yeah
[00:59] <icez> what's the point if you get 30 pictures:)
[01:00] <KC0WYS> ya no kidding
[01:00] <KC0WYS> i think the problem was that Kodak had designed the camera to stop working before the batteries are really drained
[01:01] <KC0WYS> so with another AA in series, it never falls below that line until they're totally dead
[01:08] <Tiger^> it's probably because Kodak makes batteries too :)
[01:10] <KC0WYS> hmm
[01:10] <KC0WYS> well all's i know is that it works better at voltages it's not designed for
[01:10] <KC0WYS> which would be the mark of poor engineering ;)
[01:11] <Tiger^> it's a feature(tm)
[01:11] <Tiger^> ;)
[01:11] <KC0WYS> hehehe just got to 200 pix, still going with batts at 3.5v under load
[01:11] <KC0WYS> the cut-off is 2.2v for this cam
[01:11] <KC0WYS> looks like batteries aren't going to be an issue now
[01:12] <KC0WYS> the limit will be storage space...
[01:20] <KC0WYS> well this is... interesting...
[01:20] <KC0WYS> the batts are getting warm
[01:20] <KC0WYS> o.O
[01:24] <Tiger^> don't say the w-word
[01:24] <Tiger^> it's 30 deg C here
[01:24] <Tiger^> ;)
[01:25] Action: Tiger^ is thinking North Pole...
[01:29] <KC0WYS> lol
[01:30] <KC0WYS> was 37 here the other day
[01:30] <KC0WYS> not kidding
[01:30] <Tiger^> huh
[01:30] <KC0WYS> 37C
[01:30] <Tiger^> i'd rather be a seal.
[01:31] <KC0WYS> i wish fahrenheit, tho :)
[01:31] <KC0WYS> lol
[01:31] <KC0WYS> 37F would be nice...
[01:31] <Tiger^> my internal computer goes into thermal protection mode
[01:31] <Tiger^> when it's above 20C
[01:31] <Tiger^> ;)
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[01:32] <Tiger^> but
[01:32] <Tiger^> on the other hand
[01:32] <Tiger^> it's good for us
[01:32] <Tiger^> helium gets a kick in high temperatures
[01:32] <KC0WYS> wut, keeps us from... oh helium
[01:33] <KC0WYS> lol because air conditioning making people fat has been all over the news lately, i thought you were refering to that...
[01:33] <KC0WYS> lol
[01:33] <Tiger^> hehe
[01:33] <Tiger^> it does?
[01:33] <KC0WYS> ya, supposedly
[01:33] <KC0WYS> because your body has to work harder in harsh temperatures or something
[01:33] <Tiger^> well
[01:34] <Tiger^> a good excuse
[01:34] <Tiger^> for lack of exercise ;>
[02:00] <KC0WYS> lol
[02:02] <KC0WYS> omg 280 pictures and still going
[02:02] <KC0WYS> i'm going to have to get a bigger sd card ^_^
[02:03] <KC0WYS> hey i have a thought does this smiley work? --> º_º
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[02:04] <KC0WYS> ºº
[02:04] <KC0WYS> weird
[02:14] <KC0WYS> !! "#$%&'()*++6?,??????MM,7B.O
[02:14] <KC0WYS> [17:16] <Tiger^> hehe
[02:14] <KC0WYS> [17:17] <Tiger^> i had the kettle on a gas stove
[02:14] <KC0WYS> [17:17] <Tiger^> and i couldn't open the kitchen door :>
[02:14] <KC0WYS> [17:18] <KC0WYS> oooh
[02:14] <KC0WYS> [17:18] <KC0WYS> that's bad
[02:14] <KC0WYS> [17:18] <Tiger^> yup
[02:14] <KC0WYS> [17:18] <Tiger^> had to break the glass :/
[02:14] <KC0WYS> whoa what the heck
[02:14] <KC0WYS> ugh
[02:14] <krim> what camera(s) were used on the pegasus 3 project ?
[02:14] <KC0WYS> why is my machine always the one with problems??
[02:15] <KC0WYS> hmm
[02:15] <KC0WYS> not sure
[02:15] <krim> quite good pictures
[02:18] <KC0WYS> ya
[02:29] <KC0WYS> you know the room's too messy when: you accidentally step on circuits you just finished
[02:29] <KC0WYS> damnit
[02:31] <Tiger^> b) you realize it's been a month since balloon launch, you take two things from the floor per day and you still have to take two meter steps
[02:41] <KC0WYS> :D
[02:42] <KC0WYS> 350 pictures and counting
[02:42] <KC0WYS> holding at 3.3v
[02:42] <KC0WYS> 8D
[02:42] <Tiger^> great
[02:43] <KC0WYS> except the card only holds about 150
[02:43] <KC0WYS> so i dont know why i'm still counting
[02:43] <KC0WYS> :P
[02:45] <KC0WYS> wow i am standing on a swivel chair to reach something on my desk... i definitely need to clean up
[02:45] <Tiger^> maybe because you can get a 4GB SD for $100? :D
[02:46] <KC0WYS> i'm already over budget; 128mb will have to do :/
[02:46] <Tiger^> oh
[02:47] <KC0WYS> WOW the cost for SD cards **has** gone down!!
[02:47] <KC0WYS> geez, 2GB for $39.99
[02:47] <KC0WYS> that's amazing
[02:47] <Tiger^> yup
[02:47] <KC0WYS> 13.99 for 512mb
[02:48] <Tiger^> i remember when i paid $50 for 128MB ;)
[02:48] <KC0WYS> when did that happen? when i started the project the cost for 512 was still around 30 bucks
[02:48] <KC0WYS> aah
[02:48] <KC0WYS> bad timing
[02:48] <KC0WYS> "when did that happen" as in 13.99 for 512
[02:48] <Tiger^> well
[02:48] <Tiger^> when it comes to consumer electronics
[02:48] <Tiger^> the timing's always bad
[02:48] <Tiger^> ;)
[02:48] <KC0WYS> nooo bad timing for my message
[02:49] <Tiger^> ah
[02:49] <KC0WYS> i said "when did that happen" after you said "i remember when..."
[02:49] <Tiger^> right
[02:49] <KC0WYS> yeah heh this is getting confusing...
[02:49] <KC0WYS> sry
[02:50] <krim> pegasus3 used a Concord 3045 cam, i want one too :p
[02:52] <KC0WYS> hmm there are better
[02:52] <KC0WYS> for more money, of course
[02:56] <krim> yup that one cost sbout $79 hm weight approx 100g
[02:57] <KC0WYS> if you're going for lightweight, they sell credit card-size cams on ebay for about 50$ if my memory works today
[02:57] <KC0WYS> they're 3MP
[02:58] <Tiger^> credit card size?
[02:58] <Tiger^> come on
[02:58] <Tiger^> you can't beat optics laws
[03:00] <KC0WYS> i said if you're going for lightweight, not quality ;)
[03:01] <krim> hehe, i want lightweight and quality
[03:05] <KC0WYS> if you can, look for cams with ccd sensors
[03:05] <KC0WYS> they generally have higher quality
[03:05] <KC0WYS> the megapixel rating for cameras is like the mhz rating for computers -- not as meaningful
[03:07] <Tiger^> ccd?
[03:07] <Tiger^> higher quality? :S
[03:07] <Tiger^> hmm...
[03:07] <KC0WYS> what, is that wrong?
[03:07] <Tiger^> hmm, i thought CMOS was better
[03:07] <KC0WYS> no, quite the opposite
[03:09] <KC0WYS> i mean, cmos sensors use less power, and are less complex, but usually have higher quality images
[03:09] <KC0WYS> high-end cameras use ccd sensors
[03:10] <Tiger^> cameras have always used ccd
[03:10] <Tiger^> even VHS el cheapos
[03:10] <KC0WYS> right
[03:10] <KC0WYS> well, of course they couldn't use cmos chips -- they're purely digital
[03:10] <krim> cmos is cheap junk
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[03:12] <Tiger^> hmm
[03:12] <Tiger^> cheap junk?
[03:12] <KC0WYS> yes
[03:12] <Tiger^> Canon EOS digital cameras all use CMOS sensors
[03:12] <Tiger^> and EOS 1D mark II is hardly acheap junk :P
[03:12] <Tiger^> cheap*
[03:13] <krim> what
[03:13] <KC0WYS> hmm yes that is interesting...
[03:13] <KC0WYS> well if you see a camera for 100$ that's cmos, and one for the same price that's ccd, chances are the ccd one has better-quality images
[03:13] <Tiger^> yeah
[03:14] <krim> im outdated
[03:15] <Tiger^> ok
[03:15] <Tiger^> it's how i told you
[03:16] <Tiger^> CMOS is better than CCD
[03:16] <Tiger^> The active pixel sensor is descended from the original MOS image sensors, which, like the CCD, were invented in the late 1960s.
[03:17] <Tiger^> original sensors were worse than CCD
[03:17] <krim> yup
[03:17] <krim> like those in the webcams
[03:17] <KC0WYS> webcams = ccd = crap
[03:17] <KC0WYS> er
[03:17] <KC0WYS> ugh
[03:17] <KC0WYS> webcams = cmos = crap
[03:17] <krim> yep
[03:17] <KC0WYS> ;)
[03:18] <Tiger^> hm
[03:18] <Tiger^> i'd say:
[03:18] <Tiger^> webcams = crap
[03:18] <Tiger^> :)
[03:18] <krim> hrh
[03:20] <KC0WYS> ok i'll clarify
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[03:20] <KC0WYS> cmos in cheap-off-brand-company = crap
[03:21] <KC0WYS> ccds are generally not found made in cheap-off-brand-companies
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[03:21] Action: Tiger^ is thinking Canon EOS with an L series wideangle on a balloon...
[03:22] <krim> price ?
[03:22] <Tiger^> the photos would kick seroius ass
[03:22] <krim> yeah
[03:22] <Tiger^> yeah, the price would be overkill
[03:23] <Tiger^> even the weight's not a factor as this would be a photo only flight
[03:23] <krim> ye you cant afford to loose that
[03:23] <Tiger^> that's right
[03:25] <KC0WYS> aannneyways i'll be willing to agree to disagree
[03:36] <KC0WYS> oh great
[03:36] <KC0WYS> another problem
[03:36] <KC0WYS> yay i love problems
[03:36] <KC0WYS> they are so much fun
[03:37] <KC0WYS> i think i'll shot myself i'm having such a fun time
[03:37] <KC0WYS> shoot*
[03:37] <KC0WYS> haha so much fun i can't even spell
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[03:51] <KC0WYS> hmm i cant transmit images and save log files at the same time
[03:51] <KC0WYS> so i have to have it save the logs to ram until it's done transmitting, then dump to a text file
[03:51] <KC0WYS> what else can go wrong??!
[03:52] <Tiger^> pretty much everything
[03:52] <KC0WYS> oh thanks, mate
[03:52] <KC0WYS> way to be encouraging
[03:52] <KC0WYS> ;)
[03:53] <Tiger^> i'm sharing experience :P
[03:54] <KC0WYS> here i'll make a list of failures to date:
[03:54] <KC0WYS> 1. motor h-bridge failed
[03:54] <KC0WYS> 2. usb hub didn't get enough power -- had to route extra power from 5v bus
[03:55] <KC0WYS> 3. camera didnt save preferences -- had to hack the flash button and sacrafice an i/o line which meant i had to keep the transmitter on at all times, instead of being software-controlled
[03:55] <KC0WYS> 4. lithium battery pack shorted briefly
[03:55] <KC0WYS> 5. adc melted... twice
[03:56] <KC0WYS> 6. the mirror motor's gears are slowly getting threaded
[03:56] <KC0WYS> 7. the beeper circuit overheated -- had to switch to a piezo buzzer instead
[03:56] <KC0WYS> 8. the 7v v-reg overheated, had to mount to large heatsink and fan
[03:57] <KC0WYS> and finally, i nearly fried the laptop motherboard
[03:57] <KC0WYS> i think that's about it...
[03:58] <Tiger^> it's not bad
[03:58] <Tiger^> these are minor problems really
[03:58] <Tiger^> annoying, though...
[03:59] <KC0WYS> it would really have been better if everything was tested beforehand on solderless breadboards and then permanently mounted on pcb's, instead of everything on proto boards
[03:59] <KC0WYS> but i have neither the time, nor funds, to do that
[03:59] <KC0WYS> actually replace time with experience
[03:59] <KC0WYS> ;)
[04:00] <KC0WYS> next time, everything's getting etched
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[04:14] <KC0WYS> alrightey I do believe i have fixed the problem... lemme see
[04:17] <KC0WYS> woo it workin!!
[04:17] <KC0WYS> SHAT
[04:18] <KC0WYS> spoke too soon
[04:28] <KC0WYS> oh hehe
[04:28] <KC0WYS> no wonder
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[16:10] <phatmonkey> hi all
[16:10] <KC0WYS> hi
[16:10] Nick change: KC0WYS -> kc0wys
[16:12] <phatmonkey> how's the balloon going?
[16:12] <phatmonkey> try not to pressure yourself by time... it'll only end bad!
[16:13] <phatmonkey> your balloon sounds incredible though, i can't wait :D
[16:15] <kc0wys> o thx :)
[16:15] <kc0wys> yeah i am a bit pressured, actually...
[16:16] <kc0wys> since my school payed for part of it, and my teacher, who stepped down to finish his phd, is leaving the state soon
[16:16] <kc0wys> and he really wants to see it
[16:17] <kc0wys> if i can't launch saturday, i'll launch sunday or monday probably
[16:17] <kc0wys> things are nearly done
[16:21] <phatmonkey> nice
[16:21] <phatmonkey> leave all the software running 24/7 if you can
[16:23] <kc0wys> i actually did that on accident the other night...
[16:23] <kc0wys> :P
[16:24] <kc0wys> but not all the software
[16:24] <kc0wys> i was having trouble writing text files for the logs for a while
[16:24] <kc0wys> first i tried just a carriage return for a new line, then line feed, neither worked
[16:25] <kc0wys> then i read how ms-dos and windows need both a carriage return *and* line feed for new line
[16:25] <kc0wys> really dumb
[16:25] <phatmonkey> yeah
[16:25] <phatmonkey> windows is carriage return and line feed, mac os 9 is carriage return, all unixes are line feed
[16:25] <phatmonkey> bit silly really
[16:26] <kc0wys> classic mac oses used line feeds, unix uses carriage returns, msdos uses both, let's set a standard here, people!!
[16:26] <kc0wys> lol
[16:27] <Tiger^> you know the good thing about standards, right? ;>
[16:27] <kc0wys> phatmonkey: is that right?
[16:27] <kc0wys> maybe i have macs and unix switched...
[16:27] <kc0wys> oh well
[16:28] <phatmonkey> i'm going to be writing a program that'll feed in gps (and maybe thermopile) data to the autopilot
[16:28] <phatmonkey> yeah, you have them switched, see my message!
[16:28] <kc0wys> yeah, heh
[16:28] <phatmonkey> basically a simulator so we can have the plane running 24/7
[16:28] <kc0wys> have a habbit of typing then reading
[16:28] <phatmonkey> :D
[16:28] <kc0wys> oh neat
[16:28] <phatmonkey> i'll make sure i release the code, i'm sure it'll be useful for all you guys
[16:29] <kc0wys> :)
[16:31] <phatmonkey> i guess the flight code for an uncontrolled balloon isn't quite as complicated as mine though
[16:31] <phatmonkey> hehe
[16:34] <kc0wys> lol ya
[16:47] <kc0wys> damit pricked my finger
[16:47] <kc0wys> bloody transistor, literally
[16:48] <phatmonkey> yowch
[18:52] <kc0wys> yes! it lives
[18:52] <kc0wys> i've been working on this for two days now
[18:52] <kc0wys> happy :)
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[18:53] <phatmonkey> yay, well done :D
[18:53] <phatmonkey> hi krim
[18:53] <krim> hello
[18:54] <kc0wys> hi
[18:57] <krim> what envelopes are you guys using ?
[18:58] <kc0wys> kaymont 1200g sounding balloon
[18:59] <kc0wys> Tiger^ used a 1500g kaymont, i believe
[18:59] <kc0wys> and jcoxon used a 500g totex
[18:59] <kc0wys> on peg3
[19:00] <krim> ah thanks
[19:05] <kc0wys> yeah 1200g and 1500g seem to be popular -- radioflyer-1 and balloon 1.0 used them too
[19:16] <krim> goddamn radioflier-1 had a huge payload, how the heck could that reach 94.000 ft ?
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[19:29] <kc0wys> oh easy
[19:29] <kc0wys> i mean
[19:29] <kc0wys> well
[19:30] <kc0wys> i think he was including the parachute in the weight
[19:30] <kc0wys> my payload is 8lbs, and my parachute is something like 1 or 2 lbs, which means the net weight is 9-10lbs, pretty close to his 11.5lbs
[19:30] <kc0wys> and he was in a dry, hot desert
[19:31] <kc0wys> higher temperatures generally get you a higher altitude, from what i can tell
[19:31] <icez> 2 lbs for a parachute?!
[19:31] <icez> :/
[19:31] <kc0wys> yeah something like that
[19:31] <kc0wys> well no
[19:31] <kc0wys> probably half a pound
[19:31] <icez> hey if you need a hot hot hot place to launch come here:)
[19:31] <kc0wys> hehe
[19:31] <kc0wys> it's plenty hot here
[19:32] <kc0wys> a heat wave is coming in this weekend, perfect for my launch
[19:32] <kc0wys> the other day it was 98F (37C) here
[19:32] <icez> woof
[19:32] <icez> it was 38 at 10pm here :[
[19:32] <kc0wys> ouch!
[19:33] <kc0wys> celsius or fahrenheit?
[19:33] <icez> we had rain and big wind
[19:33] <icez> C
[19:33] <kc0wys> wow
[19:33] <icez> so it was acting like a big foam cooler:)
[19:33] <kc0wys> lol
[19:33] <icez> so it dropped for the night
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[19:59] <kc0wys> whoa man i just got a phone call from a guy i know saying "hey we're going to be out by you this saturday, can we come see the launch?"
[19:59] <kc0wys> it's a group of 20 people
[19:59] <icez> dang
[20:41] <phatmonkey> yikes
[20:41] <phatmonkey> kc0wys, just do it on sunday ;)
[20:53] <kc0wys> well, it is a church group :P
[20:53] <kc0wys> i'm just waiting for a call back from the faa now
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 27 2006