highaltitude.log.20060629

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[12:59] <phatmonkey> http://new.ukhas.org.uk/
[13:00] <phatmonkey> can somebody tell me how that looks under internet explorer?
[13:00] <phatmonkey> i no longer have any windows machines in the house!
[13:00] <defy> lol
[13:00] <phatmonkey> not sure what to do under something else
[13:01] <phatmonkey> maybe latest links?
[13:01] <defy> yea it looks the same as it does under ff
[13:01] <phatmonkey> not quite front page worthy though
[13:01] <phatmonkey> ok
[13:01] <defy> is there going to be a members section?
[13:02] <phatmonkey> just stick everything in the wiki for now meguesses
[13:02] <defy> sweet
[13:03] <phatmonkey> we can put information on all our projects in the wiki
[13:03] <defy> i finally figured out the exact frequencies in the 900 range im allowed to use here, and just how much of the law ill be breaking with my modules ;P
[13:03] <phatmonkey> haha, nice
[13:03] <phatmonkey> do you think i sh9ould put links under "something else"?
[13:03] <phatmonkey> latest links or something
[13:04] <phatmonkey> well, i'll fill it with that for now so i can put it up live
[13:04] <defy> 916-921 is for radio stations, 922-929 is ism, but you can use 916-929 for telemetry at no more than 3mw
[13:04] <defy> my transitter is 1w :D
[13:04] <defy> mitter*
[13:05] <defy> yea links could work
[13:07] <phatmonkey> can't you get a license
[13:07] <phatmonkey> http://new.ukhas.org.uk/
[13:07] <phatmonkey> ok, i'll put it live
[13:08] <defy> nah, 916-921 i guess is for radio stations > their transmitter links...so i'd need to be a radio station to get a license, but the good thing is that i'll be so far away from any civilization that it shouldn't matter...I spomed to the rsm.govt people about it and they seemed pretty leaniant about it all provided it isn't in a busy area
[13:09] <defy> lol, spomed=spoke
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[13:17] <phatmonkey> okay
[13:17] <phatmonkey> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/
[13:17] <phatmonkey> all up
[13:18] <defy> looks good, quite clean and simple..the way all sites should be :P
[13:19] <phatmonkey> indeed
[13:20] <phatmonkey> complicated sites confuse my simple brain
[13:22] <defy> hehe
[14:15] <defy> hah jcoxon got a google earth kml of pegI done, thats awesome
[14:15] <defy> its cool to see it all in 3d
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[16:22] <phatmonkey> http://macfreak4.homeunix.com/projects/ensure/battcompare.html
[16:23] <phatmonkey> macfreak4, keep in mind that nicads, nimhs and lithium-ion polymer batteries will not work at the sort of temperatures that are up there
[16:24] <phatmonkey> make sure the lithium ions you are getting are not li-pos (the flat flexible ones)
[16:24] <phatmonkey> lithiums work fine obviously
[16:25] <phatmonkey> it might be interesting hooking up a bunch of these batteries and sending them up there, logging the voltages from them all
[16:26] <phatmonkey> oh, you're using a bunch of alkalines though aren't you
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[17:15] <jcoxon> hey all
[17:15] <jcoxon> its nice to come on here and see 10 people
[17:19] <phatmonkey> hey james
[17:20] <phatmonkey> http://www.ukhas.org.uk/
[17:20] <phatmonkey> finished
[17:20] <phatmonkey> i suggest we use a mailing list for forum like communication
[17:20] <phatmonkey> unless anybody doesn't like them
[17:21] <jcoxon> i like them personally
[17:21] <jcoxon> it would be exceedingly low traffic
[17:21] <phatmonkey> yeah
[17:21] <phatmonkey> great for notices and things though
[17:22] <phatmonkey> i check the irc logs from time to time to see if anything important has been happening, and that's a right pain in the arse
[17:22] <jcoxon> really nice site phatmonkey
[17:22] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:23] <jcoxon> i'm happy with a mailing list as long as it isn't a sourceforge one
[17:23] <jcoxon> they never work :-p
[17:25] <phatmonkey> yeah...
[17:25] <phatmonkey> i suppose i will have to run one myself
[17:25] <phatmonkey> i shall look into it in a bit
[17:25] <phatmonkey> just finishing some coding
[17:25] <jcoxon> okay
[17:25] <jcoxon> no hurry
[17:26] <phatmonkey> working out what bank angles we should be hitting based on how far we are off course.... terribly exciting
[17:26] <jcoxon> sounds it
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[18:52] <phatmonkey> yays, welcome
[18:54] <icez> :D
[18:59] <phatmonkey> jcoxon, you're not using your ukhas.org.uk email are you?
[18:59] <phatmonkey> for the mailing list, i'll need to get the mx records for ukhas.org.uk to point to my server
[19:19] <macfreak4> phatmonkey: the interior temperature will *never* reach those temperatures
[19:19] <macfreak4> no no no no no no no
[19:20] <macfreak4> i am NOT using alkalines!!
[19:20] <macfreak4> *GASP*
[19:20] <phatmonkey> yeah, just making sure you knew, it would be a bummer to lose a payload just because the batteries died
[19:20] <macfreak4> yeah the interior is heated by the elex, and the insulation is good enough to keep up the temp
[19:22] <macfreak4> i would never think to run the main bus off of alkalines
[19:22] <macfreak4> that would be horrible
[19:22] <icez> lol
[19:22] <macfreak4> i did some experiments on alkalines a while back
[19:22] <icez> are you sure it's a good thing if your electronic is heating it up?:)
[19:22] <macfreak4> something like capacity is halved from room temp to a refrigerator
[19:23] <macfreak4> heating up in a *good* way
[19:23] <macfreak4> transistors, regulators, etc
[19:23] <macfreak4> and the laptop
[19:23] <macfreak4> yeah there's plenty of heat
[19:23] <icez> there's a laptop inside the payload?!
[19:23] <macfreak4> i thought i told you all that
[19:23] <icez> :|
[19:23] <macfreak4> laptop motherboard
[19:23] <icez> that's one huge gumstix:]
[19:23] <macfreak4> (removed lcd, keyboard, trackpad, no drives)
[19:23] <macfreak4> its bare
[19:24] <macfreak4> just a PCB
[19:24] <macfreak4> basically
[19:24] <macfreak4> and some case plastic
[19:24] <phatmonkey> still a bit crazy ;)
[19:24] <icez> uhm on what are you saving the OS that runs the thing?
[19:24] <macfreak4> CF card
[19:24] <macfreak4> very light
[19:24] <icez> yeah the hdd/lcd/drives pretty much takes the whole weight
[19:25] <macfreak4> yup
[19:25] <macfreak4> i got it all figured out
[19:25] <macfreak4> no need to kill me over this when i've already done my homework
[19:25] <phatmonkey> ukhas-all would be a good name for the mailing list, mm?
[19:26] <phatmonkey> ukhas-all@ukhas.org.uk meguesses
[19:26] <macfreak4> what's 'all' for?
[19:26] <macfreak4> hmm
[19:26] <phatmonkey> just in case we need a ukhas-members, ukhas-devel, whutever
[19:26] <macfreak4> maybe list@ukhas.org?
[19:26] <phatmonkey> nope, we're using mailman :P
[19:26] <macfreak4> o
[19:26] <macfreak4> well whatever
[19:26] <macfreak4> i'm not picky
[19:27] <macfreak4> i just got back from the only (good) electronics store in town
[19:27] <macfreak4> it's amazing how little 25$ can get you
[19:27] <macfreak4> :P
[19:28] <icez> yeah i have one of those nearby
[19:28] <icez> i could light up my whole house with LCDs for just 15$ if I wanted with them:/
[19:29] <macfreak4> LCDs or LEDs?
[19:29] <icez> oops
[19:29] <icez> LEDs
[19:29] <icez> :/
[19:29] <macfreak4> o ok
[19:29] <macfreak4> i was going to say
[19:29] <macfreak4> that's pretty impressive
[19:29] <macfreak4> for LCDs
[19:29] <macfreak4> hehe
[19:29] <icez> well yeah..
[19:30] <icez> the only problem is that i suck at electronics
[19:30] <icez> :P
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[19:30] <macfreak4> well about y'all being horrified about the laptop...
[19:31] <macfreak4> just be glad i didnt send up this desktop motherboard i had been considering :P
[19:31] <macfreak4> it was 2 lbs by itself
[19:31] <macfreak4> hehehe
[19:32] <rocketboy> humm - bit of a wase of helium
[19:34] <macfreak4> ya definitely :D
[19:36] <macfreak4> phatmonkey: i'm surprised you found that batt page so quickly
[19:36] <macfreak4> i just uploaded it last night
[19:36] <phatmonkey> just found your site :)
[19:36] <macfreak4> oh
[19:36] <macfreak4> hehe
[19:36] <phatmonkey> saw it on the wiki page
[19:36] <macfreak4> o kk
[19:40] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, i'm not using my ukhas address
[19:41] <phatmonkey> wtf
[19:41] <phatmonkey> The following address(es) have yet to be delivered:
[19:41] <phatmonkey> ben@ukhas.org.uk: lowest numbered MX record points to local host
[19:41] <phatmonkey> well *duh*, deliver it to the local host then
[19:42] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:42] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:43] <phatmonkey> bai now
[19:44] <phatmonkey> aaaaaaahhh, i probably need to tell the MTA to treat ukhas.org.uk as a final destination
[19:45] <phatmonkey> schweet, that works
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[19:48] <jcoxon> wow 12 people
[20:05] <jcoxon> grrrr, bloody gumstix
[20:09] <macfreak4> wut's wrong?
[20:10] <jcoxon> if i powercycle when writing to the jffs2 filesystem it doesn't boot
[20:10] <jcoxon> requires a manual boot command and then a system halt
[20:16] <jcoxon> hmmm its definitly an issue about filesize
[20:16] <jcoxon> the uboot scanning mechanism seems to choke if it more full then 35%
[20:19] <defy> everything i read from the list says that its a side affect of the jffs2 fs sucking
[20:20] <jcoxon> grrr
[20:20] <defy> I've started getting files get more and more corrupt as I powercycle the gumstix without halting, even on cf and mmc cards
[20:20] <jcoxon> what annoys me is that its not to difficult for me to fix
[20:21] <jcoxon> but its a hassle
[20:21] <jcoxon> it seems to be if it gets over about 35%
[20:21] <jcoxon> so i'm going to stream line the gumstix distro
[20:27] <jcoxon> bit of a waste of a xm
[20:28] <defy> i found it did it when the log files i was writing to got above 500kish
[20:28] <defy> which happened quite quickly
[20:28] <jcoxon> how are you rotating your logs then?
[20:29] <defy> i just wrote a perl script to rotate them
[20:29] <jcoxon> hehe
[20:29] <defy> but I had to stop using > gps.log
[20:29] <jcoxon> oh
[20:29] <defy> since that keeps an open pipe to the log
[20:29] <jcoxon> right
[20:30] <defy> so now there is just an open() print and close statement at the end of my gpsparser
[20:30] <defy> which writes the same info to the log, that way i can edit it while the parser is still running the the logs dont go corrupt
[20:31] <jcoxon> i might try and implement that
[20:31] <defy> then another perl script which keeps 5 (or however long specified) minutes worth of data in the log, and moves the rest to a .gz file
[20:32] <defy> but even yesterday i had the compact flash card's filesystem go weirdly corrupt...which is annoying because the kernel automatically remounts the cf card as read only
[20:32] <defy> so it still mounts on boot, but i can't log to it untill i remount it
[20:33] <defy> and mmc isnt an option since the netmmc cards use a huge amount of power
[20:34] <phatmonkey> they do?
[20:34] <jcoxon> defy - can i be cheeky and have a copy of your perl rotate script
[20:34] <phatmonkey> what are the differences between the netMMC and netCF cards?
[20:35] <phatmonkey> i heard somewhere that the netCF cards eat up a serial port
[20:35] <defy> one takes mmc, ones takes cf? ;P power wise I'm not sure, I only have a cfstix and netmmc card
[20:35] <defy> yea, they also do they, they use the swuart i believe
[20:35] <defy> jcoxon yea just a sec..
[20:35] Action: jcoxon realises that nearly all his scripts are written by defy
[20:35] <defy> lol
[20:36] <jcoxon> i'm a bash script person
[20:36] <defy> phatmonkey well i noticed when i was doing my battery testing that any time i had the netmmc card plugged into my combo, i'd only get about 2-4 hours out of my batteries depending on what i was doing with the gumstix
[20:36] <defy> but without the netmmc board I get anywhere from 8-11 hours on the same batteries
[20:36] <defy> I'm not sure if thats the mmc or the network part of the card sucking up the power
[20:36] <jcoxon> is that because the net part is waiting for a network cable
[20:37] <jcoxon> you can probably use a gpio to turn that off
[20:37] <defy> yeah
[20:37] <defy> I haven't looked into making it use less at all
[20:37] <phatmonkey> yeah, that's what i'm planning to do
[20:37] <defy> i decided using the cfstix was easier :P
[20:37] <phatmonkey> i *need* the network, because i'm using up the serial port on the serial console
[20:38] <phatmonkey> so i hope i can turn off the adaptor to save power
[20:38] <defy> for all i really know it could have been the mmc part of the carad using the power
[20:38] <defy> but i assume its the network side since that can do all kinds of funny things with power and voltage
[20:39] <defy> my original plan was to use two of my gumstix and cluster them
[20:39] <defy> but i cant justify loosing BOTH of my gumstix at once ;P
[20:39] <jcoxon> i reckon its the network side as networking is big 'puter stuff while mmc is used on lots of embedded things
[20:40] <defy> yea
[20:40] <jcoxon> defy, perhaps you can risk both after a few successful flights!
[20:40] <defy> yea, for sure
[20:44] <defy> jcoxon http://defy.net/balloon/files/rotatoroflogs.txt
[20:45] <jcoxon> so does the rotatelog script turn the parser on and off then?
[20:45] <defy> nope
[20:45] <jcoxon> just that you've made the parser able to have its log file moved while working
[20:46] <defy> yea with the parser...
[20:46] <defy> change the....
[20:46] <defy> print "$day_array[$wday] $month_array[$mon] $mday $hour:$min:$sec $year:$lat:$long:$alt$altunits:$speed:$heading\n";
[20:46] <defy> to...
[20:46] <phatmonkey> been trying to get this damn mailing list working with exim4 for a while, i'll give up for tonight
[20:46] <defy> open(FILE, ">>/mnt/cf/waypoints/logs/gps.log");
[20:46] <defy> print FILE "$day_array[$wday] $month_array[$mon] $mday $hour:$min:$sec $year | $time | $lat,$long | $alt$altunits | $speed | $heading\n";
[20:46] <defy> close(FILE);
[20:46] <defy> obviously you can format to your own needs
[20:47] <phatmonkey> probably worth using a CSV format so you can import it into spreadsheets or databases
[20:47] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:47] <jcoxon> thats what i was going to do
[20:48] <jcoxon> thanks defy again
[20:50] <phatmonkey> if anything, MMC cards probably draw less power
[20:50] <phatmonkey> well, they look like they'll draw less power anyway, what with being a fraction of the size :)
[20:51] <macfreak4> yes, mmc cards do draw less power
[20:51] <macfreak4> than cf cards
[20:51] <phatmonkey> ok, i'll get the netMMC board then
[20:51] <defy> yea i was thinking that i should have gotten a gumstix with onboard mmc
[20:52] <defy> jcoxon no prob
[20:52] <jcoxon> defy, does logrotate script splits the file up?
[20:52] <defy> yeah
[20:52] <jcoxon> it looks like you have seperate altitude files
[20:52] <jcoxon> right okay
[20:52] <macfreak4> the difference in current consumption between mmc cards and cf cards is quite small
[20:52] <defy> every 5 minutes is a different .gz file
[20:53] <jcoxon> but does it seperate altitude
[20:53] <phatmonkey> still, MMC cards are more compact
[20:53] <macfreak4> ya
[20:53] <phatmonkey> and the netCF board is out of stock!
[20:53] <phatmonkey> shame, i have loads of CF cards
[20:53] <macfreak4> the difference is small enough just do it on personal preference
[20:53] <phatmonkey> meh, flash isn't expensive
[20:53] <defy> jcoxon ah the attitude logs?
[20:53] <phatmonkey> yeah
[20:53] <defy> thats just the section to rotate my sensor logs, you can remove that
[20:53] <defy> altitude is all kept in the gps log
[20:53] <jcoxon> oooo cool
[20:53] <jcoxon> okay
[20:54] <defy> at the moment the script runs as a daemon with its own while script
[20:54] <defy> so it needs ./rotatoroflogs.pl &
[20:55] <defy> otherwise if you dont want something running all the time you can kill the while (1) { and }, and just run the script at your own intervals
[20:55] <defy> while loop, not script...man its too early for any human being to be awake!
[20:56] <jcoxon> time to test :-D
[20:56] <defy> i saw the kml you made of the pegI flight....very cool
[20:57] <phatmonkey> bluuuurgh
[20:57] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:57] <phatmonkey> i might get the robostix without pins
[20:57] <phatmonkey> i'm sick of waiting
[20:57] <jcoxon> its a shame that you can't follow the exact path
[20:57] <phatmonkey> we have loads of code ready....!
[20:57] <defy> jcoxon what do you mean
[20:57] <defy> phatmonkey solding to those holes shouldnt be too bad, they are pretty well spaced apart
[20:57] <jcoxon> well if you "play" the path on google earth
[20:57] <defy> otherwise just get some headers
[20:57] <jcoxon> it follows the positions
[20:58] <jcoxon> but not the altitude
[20:58] <defy> ah yup, never noticed that before
[20:58] <jcoxon> defy, i spent the day plotting some of the paths of the guy's (who i'm going to africa with) balloon flights
[20:59] <jcoxon> long duration and all
[20:59] <defy> awesome
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[20:59] <jcoxon> I'm going to take google earth out on my laptop and plot all the balloon paths in africa
[20:59] <jcoxon> especially PegIV's flight (if i'm allowed to tag it on)
[20:59] <defy> cool, yea its really handy to see the flights in 3d
[21:00] <phatmonkey> soldering to the robostix would be best in the end for reliability
[21:00] <phatmonkey> but a pain for development
[21:00] <macfreak4> make a development board
[21:01] <macfreak4> stix --removable cable--> dev board --> whatever you need to solder
[21:01] <defy> i still prefer things with plugs, even for production stuff, solding to the tiny holes in the gpsstix board is a real pain, and i know if anything goes wrong in my setup it'll be those solders
[21:01] <jcoxon> defy, true
[21:01] <jcoxon> i reckon i've secured mine sufficently
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[21:02] <jcoxon> they better not come loose
[21:02] <defy> but I'd be a lot happier about it if they were the nice big pads the robostix has
[21:02] <jcoxon> oooooooooooooo shuttle launch countdown has begun
[21:02] <defy> really?
[21:03] <defy> *loads nasa tv*
[21:03] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:03] <phatmonkey> ooh, nice
[21:03] <phatmonkey> defy: cover them in hot glue
[21:03] <jcoxon> its launching on saturday
[21:03] <phatmonkey> that'll stop them from working loose
[21:03] <phatmonkey> and it'll peel off nice and easily
[21:03] <defy> ah, the big countdown?
[21:04] <defy> phatmonkey hehe yea, i was thinking about that
[21:05] <phatmonkey> the robostix without the pins is $10 cheaper too, niice
[21:05] <defy> hehe
[21:06] <phatmonkey> "you can stop most power consumption by the controller by holding it
[21:06] <phatmonkey> in reset using the reset line, which is GPIO80 for eth0 and GPIO52
[21:06] <phatmonkey> for eth1. "
[21:07] <phatmonkey> i haven't touched a gumstix... is that simple enough?
[21:07] <jcoxon> yup
[21:07] <phatmonkey> hokay
[21:07] <jcoxon> modprobe proc_gpio
[21:07] <phatmonkey> i think i might go ahead and buy the goodies
[21:07] <jcoxon> then
[21:07] <defy> sweet
[21:07] <defy> so you can turn the net part of the card off?
[21:07] <jcoxon> echo "GPIO set clear" >/proc/gpio/GPIO80
[21:07] <jcoxon> or something like that
[21:08] <defy> i may go back to mmc then if thats the case
[21:08] <phatmonkey> ok
[21:08] <jcoxon> defy, it'll be something like that
[21:08] <phatmonkey> ?125
[21:08] <jcoxon> wait a sec
[21:08] <jcoxon> it'll be
[21:08] <phatmonkey> not bad
[21:08] <phatmonkey> about 2 slugs :)
[21:08] <jcoxon> echo "GPIO out clear" >/proc/gpio/GPIO80
[21:09] <phatmonkey> alright
[21:10] <defy> sweet
[21:11] <defy> i bought a tiny little uart jpeg camera the other day
[21:11] <jcoxon> ooo cool
[21:11] <defy> only 640x480, but it'll use so little space, it can be an extra camera to the digital one I'm thinking
[21:11] <jcoxon> does it connect directly to the gumstix?
[21:12] <defy> not sure, if anything it'll just need a level shifter
[21:12] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:12] <defy> because im not sure exactly what it outputs at, it might be rs232
[21:12] <jcoxon> you can transmit images!
[21:12] <defy> hehe yea
[21:13] Action: jcoxon realises his site is on wikipedia
[21:13] <defy> http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2027/.f?sc=8&category=241 is the one i ordered
[21:14] <defy> however http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2420/.f?sc=8&category=241 is the one i really want (provided images can be copied off the uart, im still waiting on an answer) but they are out of stock
[21:15] <jcoxon> the first on is rs232
[21:15] <defy> sweet, i've been meaning to get some level shifters anyway
[21:15] <jcoxon> the quality isn't bad at all
[21:15] <defy> yea not too bad, but 1mp would be nicer
[21:16] <defy> have you dont any range tests with your wireless?
[21:17] <defy> im going to be in america in a few days and might order a aerocomm development kit to bring back with me
[21:17] <jcoxon> 868mhz?
[21:17] <defy> yea
[21:17] <jcoxon> not really
[21:17] <defy> oki
[21:17] <jcoxon> i'm actually not allowed to use it to transmit from an airbourne payload
[21:17] <defy> doh
[21:17] <jcoxon> but once it lands
[21:17] <jcoxon> and of course it can recieve
[21:18] <defy> cool
[21:18] <defy> so all your 'live' tracking will be through cell?
[21:18] <jcoxon> dont' know if i recommend them or not
[21:18] <jcoxon> nope
[21:18] <jcoxon> Peg III will have:
[21:18] <jcoxon> 1) SMS gps
[21:18] <jcoxon> 2)tracking of phone itself
[21:18] <jcoxon> 3)868mhz on the ground
[21:19] <jcoxon> 4)434mhz morse code beacon
[21:19] <defy> sweet
[21:19] <jcoxon> rocketboy is providing the 434mhz beacon
[21:19] <defy> do you just use a directional and go by signal strength for the beacon?
[21:20] <phatmonkey> hmm...
[21:20] <phatmonkey> maybe live communication would be a good idea for the first few flights
[21:21] <phatmonkey> we probably need to get a kite launch sorted too
[21:21] <jcoxon> defy, well i'm not sure
[21:21] <defy> kite launch would be nice for testing autopilots
[21:21] <jcoxon> at present yes but we are going to do morse code coordinates
[21:22] <defy> im not too sure how to tackle that yet, i was thinking maybe a teathered balloon to get it way up there, but that could end up being quite expensive with helium
[21:22] <defy> ahh, sweet
[21:37] <phatmonkey> the glider would get caught on the tether :)
[21:37] <phatmonkey> i was thiknking of doing that
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[21:40] <defy> do you have much experience with rc airframes phatmonkey?
[21:41] <phatmonkey> i guess so
[21:41] <defy> I'm bringing 6 of my balsa planes back from the states with me, but im thinking the unmanned glider really needs to be foam
[21:41] <phatmonkey> it's been a hobby for 5 or 6 years now
[21:41] <defy> sweet
[21:41] <phatmonkey> oh yes, foam is way to go for this
[21:42] <defy> have you seen the site for the paparadziy uav's?
[21:43] <defy> the easy start on their site looks like it could be quite a stable glider, but its powered
[21:43] <phatmonkey> yep, been in touch with those guys quite a lot
[21:44] <phatmonkey> no, those multiplex models are faar too flimsy
[21:44] <defy> yea?
[21:44] <phatmonkey> and that paparazzi is very of out date btw
[21:44] <defy> i like the microjet they did
[21:44] <phatmonkey> those foam models just crumble
[21:44] <phatmonkey> you'll want one which is EPP reinforced with tape
[21:44] <phatmonkey> or they're not really stronger
[21:44] <defy> yea? an articles of their linked to the epp foam airframes, i figured thats what they were using
[21:45] <defy> acteurope.de has videos of people jumping on their planes and they dont look at all damaged
[21:45] <defy> but they aren't the same ones from paparazzi
[21:45] <phatmonkey> i don't know what foam it is, but foam on its own is not very strong
[21:45] <defy> yea, snaps easily
[21:46] <phatmonkey> exactly
[21:46] <phatmonkey> the zagi i have is reinforced with special duct tape and vinyl tape to make it pretty
[21:47] <phatmonkey> ditto with another glider i have
[21:47] <phatmonkey> http://www.phoenixmp.com/ - i have the synergy
[21:47] <phatmonkey> great kits those
[21:47] <defy> i just want one thats made out of the same stuff as this, http://www.acteurope.de/BAT3.wmv
[21:48] <defy> but perhaps a bigger airframe
[21:48] <defy> cool
[21:48] <phatmonkey> yep, tape covered foam will do that
[21:49] <phatmonkey> i can get my zagi and literally bend it
[21:49] <defy> I dont think there is tape on the bat though is there?
[21:49] <defy> looks like normal foam
[21:50] <phatmonkey> the phoenix glider i have has a hardwood spar, so it's more rigid, but might snap
[21:50] <phatmonkey> guess so, but tape covered foam is far more widely used
[21:50] <phatmonkey> and that foam on its own probably won't scale to larger things
[21:50] <defy> TRUE
[21:50] <defy> erm
[21:50] <defy> true :P
[21:51] <phatmonkey> you'll find loads of models which are tape covered foam
[21:51] <phatmonkey> and it's *very* strong
[21:51] <defy> yea i've seen a few wings that were tape covered
[21:52] <phatmonkey> i have a multiplex twinjet, made of the same stuff that the paparazzi models use
[21:52] <phatmonkey> it's very easy to break
[21:53] <phatmonkey> it's like expanded polystyrene in packaging, just with with bigger balls that stick together a bit stronger
[21:53] <phatmonkey> and it's a bit more squishy
[21:55] <defy> well epp is polyprop isnt it?
[21:57] <defy> if its polypropylene and not polystyrene it shouldn't snap at all
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[21:57] <phatmonkey> exp polypropylene, yes
[21:58] <defy> http://www.nongnu.org/paparazzi/images/microjet_opened.jpg < that just looks like styro
[21:58] <phatmonkey> nope, it's epp
[21:58] <defy> and yea, i can imagine that that would break very easily
[21:58] <defy> really?
[21:59] <phatmonkey> epp and eps are just different plastics formed in the same way
[21:59] <phatmonkey> they're both similar, just epp is more dense and strong
[21:59] <phatmonkey> and more flexible
[21:59] <phatmonkey> i'm off, bbiab
[21:59] <macfreak4> woo!
[21:59] <macfreak4> finally!
[21:59] <macfreak4> finished the piezo beeper/led flasher circuit
[21:59] <defy> ok, the textures look quite differnt in all the pictures i've seen
[21:59] <macfreak4> which decided twice to fail on me
[21:59] <defy> lol
[22:00] <macfreak4> damn 555 timers...
[22:00] <macfreak4> :P
[22:12] <macfreak4> SWEET!
[22:12] <macfreak4> found linux drivers for my webcam!
[22:13] <macfreak4> man this is such a good day :D :D :D
[22:13] <defy> hehe
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[22:24] <phatmonkey> hmmmm
[22:24] <phatmonkey> should i get the gumstix goodies then?
[22:28] <phatmonkey> http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=144
[22:29] <phatmonkey> hmm, that plug on the top looks like the 60 pin connector
[22:29] <phatmonkey> another question: if there is a pwoer plug on the robostix and the netMMC adaptor, which do I use?
[22:30] <phatmonkey> defy? jcoxon?
[22:30] <defy> either
[22:32] <phatmonkey> alright, i'll go ahead and get them
[22:37] <defy> boy do i hate mysql sometimes
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[23:16] <defy> they're moving sats on nasa tv, looks interesting
[23:16] <jcoxon> hmmm defy i've left my gumstix running for quite a while
[23:16] <jcoxon> its made one file
[23:17] <defy> with the rotator running?
[23:17] <jcoxon> yup
[23:17] <jcoxon> maybe i broke it when i removed the altitude code
[23:18] <defy> did you change the paths to the logs?
[23:18] <defy> so they match your paths?
[23:18] <jcoxon> ooo found a mistake in my paths
[23:18] <defy> hehe
[23:19] <defy> once i get it all finalized ill probably only have the rotater run once every 30 minutes or so
[23:19] <defy> either that, or somehow made it append the logs to a current gz file, i just dont like lots of log files
[23:19] <jcoxon> yeah that would be a good idea
[23:20] <jcoxon> i'm more of the mind though of go with what ever works
[23:20] <defy> yea
[23:20] <defy> same, combined with my lazyness
[23:20] <jcoxon> i'd rather my gumstix didn't keep corrupting and i had to manually append the log files
[23:20] <defy> means lots of features get left out if they really aren't needed
[23:20] <jcoxon> KISS
[23:20] <defy> hehe
[23:21] Action: jcoxon realises that KISS is slightly dodgey! it wasn't meant to be
[23:22] <defy> lol
[23:26] <defy> looks like they're docking
[23:26] <defy> i wonder if this is actually live
[23:26] <jcoxon> hmmm in theory the script will delete the last copy of gps.log if the gumstix is restarted
[23:27] <defy> it shouldn't do
[23:27] <defy> the only time any data will be lost is if its done the split second that it takes to rewrite the log files
[23:27] <defy> and even then it will only be one chunk thats lost, so the smaller the intervals, the less likely it is to lose a lot of data
[23:27] <defy> erm
[23:28] <defy> by if its done, i meant power cycling it
[23:28] <jcoxon> i just halted before i turned it off
[23:29] <defy> and the main gps.log is gone?
[23:29] <jcoxon> yup
[23:29] <defy> weird, i'd never had that
[23:29] <jcoxon> if i call halt it runs the init.d scripts again
[23:29] <defy> the amount of time the script holds the files open is a very very small window
[23:29] <jcoxon> now usually thats cool
[23:30] <defy> yea, it should run all of the init scripts with stop as a variable
[23:30] <jcoxon> but i'm lazy and have them as basic scripts
[23:30] <jcoxon> with no stop variable
[23:30] <defy> I have a S91NavComputer with start and stop
[23:30] <jcoxon> so it'll run log rotate and gpsparser
[23:30] <jcoxon> therefore it'll open it again and overwrite the file
[23:30] <defy> which mounts the cf, and starts all my software upon start....and stops my software, and unmounts upon stop
[23:31] <defy> gpsparser is only ever appending though
[23:31] <defy> it should never overwrite data
[23:31] <defy> provided the open() uses a >> and not >
[23:32] <jcoxon> i'll do a test later
[23:32] <jcoxon> its probably just me
[23:32] <defy> hehe
[23:34] <jcoxon> i really hope the shuttle launch on sat is a success
[23:35] <defy> yea same
[23:35] <jcoxon> just reading how if something big goes wrong thats the end of the programme
[23:35] <jcoxon> and therefore the ISS
[23:35] <defy> i watched the last one land on nasa tv, it was pretty neat, it flew directly over new zealand and 45 minutes later it had landed
[23:36] <jcoxon> they travel rather fast
[23:36] <defy> hehe
[23:36] <defy> iss?
[23:37] <jcoxon> international space station
[23:37] <defy> oh yea..that wouldn't be good at all, everything they're doing is so important
[23:38] Action: jcoxon reckons Pegasus could help supply the ISS :-p
[23:38] <defy> hehe
[23:39] <defy> amature space stuff is so close i can taste it
[23:40] <jcoxon> it won't be long
[23:40] <jcoxon> and hopefully we'll be near the front
[23:40] <defy> hehe
[23:40] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:43] <rocketboy> humm - well actually its already been done - about a year ago a rocket lauch >100km
[23:43] <rocketboy> launch
[23:44] <jcoxon> oh well
[23:44] <jcoxon> near the front is good enough for me
[23:44] <jcoxon> :-p
[23:44] <jcoxon> where was that rocket launched from?
[23:44] <jcoxon> Esrange?
[23:45] <rocketboy> Black rock I think - I see if I can find the web page
[23:46] <rocketboy> north Nevada desert
[23:47] <jcoxon> oh right
[23:47] <jcoxon> not sure i can get to 100km
[23:48] <defy> oh yea its definately being done
[23:49] <rocketboy> not a baloon along - but a reasonably small rockoon could make it
[23:50] <jcoxon> rocketboy, i definitly think is achievable
[23:50] <jcoxon> by a group of us
[23:50] Action: jcoxon promises he isn't dreaming
[23:50] Action: macfreak4 believes jcoxon
[23:51] <jcoxon> macfreak4, :-D
[23:51] <defy> I wonder at what point in the atmosphere it becomes too think to hold a balloon up
[23:51] <defy> thin*
[23:52] <jcoxon> the thing is that hydrogen for example has a high enough velocity to escape
[23:52] <rocketboy> http://www.stratofox.org/pics/csxt-spaceshot-2004/ looks like it
[23:53] <jcoxon> but i doubt that could be harnessed
[23:53] <defy> hrm, interesting
[23:53] <rocketboy> 72 miles (116km or 380,000 ft)
[23:54] <rocketboy> Think rockoon - my calculations say a 10Kg rocket ould make it when launched from 100,000ft
[23:55] <jcoxon> hmmm well i reckon we could lift 10kg
[23:55] <jcoxon> though i'm not sure with totex
[23:56] <jcoxon> need something like a highpressure (impossible to find)
[23:56] <jcoxon> or zeropressure mylar (need serious experience to use)
[23:56] <jcoxon> perhaps multiple 2000g totexs
[23:57] <jcoxon> i'll have a little think
[23:57] <defy> launching a rocket at 100k feet would be pretty interesting sight to see
[23:57] <rocketboy> the usual way is 3 or 4 ballons and a launch frame to launch the rocket form the centre of the ballon cluster
[23:58] <jcoxon> the original "van allen" method is to launch through the balloon :-D
[23:58] <defy> lol
[23:58] <jcoxon> rocketboy, we could do that
[23:58] <jcoxon> launch in the polar vortex
[23:59] <rocketboy> butit a lot mor complicated than just lugging a rocket to 100Kft - becaue ther is no air some form of stabilization system is needed (rocket motor vectoring, gas jets, javatar et)c.
[23:59] <jcoxon> of course
[23:59] <rocketboy> again its been done - so its possible
[00:00] --- Fri Jun 30 2006