highaltitude.log.20060603

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[16:02] <macfreak4> hey
[16:03] <jcoxon> hey macfreak4
[16:03] <macfreak4> i have been making absolutely no progress lately
[16:03] <macfreak4> it's very sad
[16:03] <jcoxon> just did my second last exam
[16:03] <jcoxon> was awful
[16:03] <macfreak4> :(
[16:03] <macfreak4> what class?
[16:04] <jcoxon> everyone else found it bad too
[16:04] <jcoxon> pharmacology
[16:04] <macfreak4> oh
[16:04] <jcoxon> hey ehj20 welcome to highaltitude
[16:05] <macfreak4> bbl8r
[16:05] <jcoxon> cya macfreak4
[16:17] <ehj20> jcoxon: hi, just been checking out pegasus. I came across it on hackaday.com.
[16:17] <jcoxon> :-D
[16:17] <ehj20> (pharmacology has always been a nightmare :-p)
[16:17] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:17] <ehj20> is it legal to use a CB radio on the payload?
[16:18] <jcoxon> this was worse then the usual exams
[16:18] <jcoxon> not in the UK
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[16:18] <jcoxon> no unmanned cb stations
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[16:19] <macfreak4> back :)
[16:20] <macfreak4> did you see this, jcoxon?
[16:20] <macfreak4> http://macfreak4.homeunix.com/photos/IMG_1096.jpg
[16:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:20] <jcoxon> very nice
[16:20] <macfreak4> o ok
[16:20] <macfreak4> thx
[16:24] <ehj20> what do you think the chances are of the payload descending to a region without any GSM signal?
[16:25] <macfreak4> where are you located?
[16:25] <ehj20> I was thinking about pegasus in the UK
[16:25] <macfreak4> oh
[16:26] <macfreak4> not sure...
[16:26] <macfreak4> i'm in the US so I wouldn't know
[16:26] <ehj20> are you in the US?
[16:26] <macfreak4> ya ;)
[16:27] <ehj20> ah, GSM is probably a bit more patchy there? Although I suppose you can use ham radio to find the payload?
[16:27] <macfreak4> ya i'm not using a mobile phone
[16:28] <macfreak4> i've got two 3-watt UHF handheld transmitters and i'm working on getting my lisence so i can use them
[16:28] <macfreak4> license*
[16:30] <macfreak4> and yea i do believe that mobile phone coverage in the US is worse than in the UK
[16:30] <macfreak4> that was one factor in my decision against themm
[16:30] <macfreak4> plus i want to be able to see what's happening live
[16:32] <jcoxon> ehj20, i don't think its a problem
[16:32] <jcoxon> unless you end up in the sea :-D
[16:33] <jcoxon> i'm about to test some ISM 868mhz radio modems
[16:33] <jcoxon> which should be legal (haven't totally worked it out)
[16:33] <jcoxon> but they do only have a quoted range of 15km
[16:34] <jcoxon> i reckon it could be a bit more considering the lack of anything in between
[16:34] <jcoxon> will have to see
[16:35] <jcoxon> right i'll be back later, got to test some gps stuff outside
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[16:38] <ehj20> macfreak4: looks good. when do you tihnk you'll be launching?
[16:39] <macfreak4> the end of the month
[16:39] <macfreak4> i don't yet have a specific date, but i should soon
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[17:07] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-11-204.47-151.net24.it) left irc: "*** E' solo l'urto con un iceberg, che vuoi che sia, questa è una nave inaffondabile. *** 75$/barile"
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[17:22] <macfreak4> ugh my internet connection keeps getting interrupted
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[18:50] <malgar> hi jcoxon i'm a bit away from this channel in this period, excuse me :)
[18:50] <jcoxon> no probs
[18:50] <jcoxon> :-)
[18:50] <malgar> i'm very busy in 1000 other things :)
[18:54] <jcoxon> know the feeling
[18:54] <jcoxon> just about to finish my 1000 things :-D
[18:55] <malgar> ehehe
[18:55] <jcoxon> right i better be off
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[21:18] <phatmonkey> jcoxon!
[21:21] <phatmonkey> wakey wakey
[21:21] <phatmonkey> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524828
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[21:21] <phatmonkey> read up on that for the current situation
[21:22] <phatmonkey> can I put an IR sensor on one of your pegasus flights?
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[23:03] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-57-213.47-151.net24.it) left irc: "*** E' solo l'urto con un iceberg, che vuoi che sia, questa è una nave inaffondabile. *** 75$/barile"
[23:16] <jcoxon> hey phatmonkey
[23:19] <phatmonkey> yay
[23:19] <phatmonkey> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524828
[23:19] <phatmonkey> pretty much sums up my thoughts at the moment
[23:19] <jcoxon> hmmm they don't seem to be very helpful
[23:19] <phatmonkey> hehe
[23:19] <phatmonkey> some guy worrying about safety, typical
[23:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:20] <phatmonkey> there are going to be so many people like that, we need to be careful about the press
[23:20] <jcoxon> i know
[23:20] <jcoxon> i've been thinking about insurance
[23:20] <phatmonkey> I have £6 million (I think) insurance with the BMFA for any airborne vehicle under a certain weight I believe
[23:20] <phatmonkey> one, sec, I'll get the terms
[23:21] <phatmonkey> bmfa - british model flying association
[23:21] <phatmonkey> alrighty then
[23:22] <phatmonkey> £5,000,000 for anywhere in the world
[23:22] <phatmonkey> temporary visits outside the uk
[23:22] <jcoxon> for any airbourne vehicle?
[23:22] <phatmonkey> any recognised activity of the bmfa relating to aeromodelling and ancillary activities, blah blah
[23:23] <jcoxon> is it a recognised activity?
[23:23] <jcoxon> i guess its a glider
[23:23] <phatmonkey> it's aeromodelling!
[23:23] <jcoxon> just from a much higer height
[23:23] <phatmonkey> all my relatives are legal junkies, I will have to ask some of them
[23:24] <jcoxon> best to make sure
[23:24] <jcoxon> perhaps i need to get insurance
[23:24] <phatmonkey> covers death pemanenent total disablement... blah blah.... it even mentions emergency dental expenses
[23:24] <phatmonkey> ah, more on the back
[23:24] <phatmonkey> main exclusions
[23:25] <phatmonkey> ok, double negatives here confusing me
[23:25] <phatmonkey> something... about
[23:25] <phatmonkey> don't know, but it doesn't seem important
[23:26] <phatmonkey> haha
[23:26] <phatmonkey> tell you what, I'll ask them
[23:26] <jcoxon> good idea
[23:26] <phatmonkey> http://www.bmfa.org/
[23:26] <phatmonkey> if you're interested
[23:26] <phatmonkey> bet they've never got anyone asking them if they cover planes going to the edge of space
[23:27] <phatmonkey> ah, they might not cover UAVs of course
[23:29] <jcoxon> true
[23:30] <jcoxon> perhaps UKHAS could have some insurance
[23:30] <phatmonkey> yes
[23:30] <phatmonkey> that is a good idea
[23:32] <phatmonkey> This might sound a tad crazy, but here goes. I am planning to send up a glider on a weather balloon up to around 100,000ft (20 miles) and it will then fly itself back to the launch location using an on board computer. The last leg of the flight (ie, the landing) will then be controlled manually using standard radio control equipment. See http://www.ukhas.org.uk/ for some more information.
[23:32] <phatmonkey> The big question: Will the BMFA insurance cover this? Looking over my insurance sheet, it does not mention any altitude limits, nor anything about whether it is controlled by a human or not. It is, er, quite an out of the ordinary thing though, so I thought I had better check!
[23:32] <phatmonkey> Ben
[23:33] <phatmonkey> sound ok?
[23:35] <phatmonkey> jcoxon, also....
[23:35] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:35] <jcoxon> tis dodgy legal stuff
[23:35] <phatmonkey> could I stick some IR thermopile sensors on one of your pegasus flights to see if they work nicely at high altitudes
[23:35] <jcoxon> http://www.largemodelassociation.com/caa-meetings.htm
[23:35] <jcoxon> yeah of course
[23:36] <jcoxon> would you need an adc?
[23:36] <phatmonkey> the ground might not be emitting enough radiation to detect a large change between the sky and the ground
[23:36] <phatmonkey> I can hook it up to my own PIC if you want
[23:36] <phatmonkey> so as not to mess with your stuff
[23:36] <jcoxon> a self contained pic would prob be best
[23:37] <phatmonkey> it would probably be 6 sensors
[23:37] <phatmonkey> yeah
[23:37] <phatmonkey> X, Y and Z
[23:37] <phatmonkey> I doubt the balloon or parachute would affect the radiation readings
[23:39] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:40] <jcoxon> i could stick it as a train
[23:40] <jcoxon> a secondary payload
[23:41] <jcoxon> http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP722.PDF
[23:43] <jcoxon> page 24
[23:44] <jcoxon> The applicable operational limitations include: not operating more than
[23:44] <jcoxon> 500 metres from the UAV-pilot; not operating at a height exceeding 400 ft above the
[23:44] <jcoxon> surface, and not over or within a defined distance of any person, vehicle or structure
[23:44] <jcoxon> not directly involved in the aerial work activity.
[23:45] <jcoxon> what are the caa saying?
[23:47] <phatmonkey> woah
[23:47] <phatmonkey> are those the UAV laws?
[23:47] <phatmonkey> I hate this country sometimes, I have to admit
[23:47] <phatmonkey> I will have to chat to that CAA guy about it
[23:48] <jcoxon> who is your caa contact?
[23:48] <phatmonkey> eerm
[23:48] <phatmonkey> your guy
[23:48] <jcoxon> oh right
[23:48] <jcoxon> cool
[23:48] <jcoxon> is he being helpful
[23:49] <jcoxon> i've always found him helpful
[23:49] <phatmonkey> yep
[23:49] <phatmonkey> very prompt and informative
[23:49] <phatmonkey> dum dee dum
[23:50] <jcoxon> have you heard from him recently?
[23:50] <phatmonkey> thermopile sensors are expensive, ew
[23:50] <phatmonkey> nope
[23:50] <phatmonkey> only talked to him a while back
[23:50] <jcoxon> right he seems to be really busy
[23:50] <phatmonkey> £8ish a sensor
[23:50] <jcoxon> i emailed earlier this week and he didn't reply
[23:50] <phatmonkey> times by 6, quite a lot
[23:50] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:51] <jcoxon> i've been thinking though
[23:51] <phatmonkey> just don't lose them ;)
[23:51] <jcoxon> that i am legally allowed to decend by parachute
[23:51] <phatmonkey> ... surely something controlled would be better?
[23:51] <jcoxon> well exactly
[23:52] <jcoxon> so if you can descend by parachute
[23:52] <jcoxon> why don't we develop a system with a parachute
[23:52] <jcoxon> couldn't we use the parachute as a air brake
[23:53] <phatmonkey> or we could just say it's a flat parachute with control surfaces
[23:53] <phatmonkey> tee hee
[23:53] <jcoxon> don't push it :-D
[23:53] <phatmonkey> it's free fall
[23:53] <phatmonkey> probably with a parachute at the end
[23:53] <phatmonkey> it's not quite a uav, it's just a controlled fall
[23:53] <jcoxon> and whats the problem with a few levers to change direction
[23:54] <jcoxon> levers -> what every they are called
[23:54] <jcoxon> flaps
[23:54] <Tiger^> hey :)
[23:54] <jcoxon> hey Tiger^
[23:55] <jcoxon> Tiger^, what are you doing about insurance?
[23:55] <jcoxon> do you think its necessary?
[23:55] <Tiger^> jcoxon, nothing
[23:55] <jcoxon> okay
[23:55] <jcoxon> i have yet
[23:55] <Tiger^> i just hope it won't hit anybody :/
[23:55] <jcoxon> but i've been thinking about it
[23:56] <jcoxon> especially with an increase in launch freq
[23:57] <phatmonkey> unfortunately, you'll probably hit something eventually
[23:58] <phatmonkey> damaged roof tiles, broken windows, etc
[23:58] <Tiger^> is he?
[23:58] <jcoxon> exactly
[23:58] <Tiger^> guys from the US
[23:58] <Tiger^> like KNSP, TVNSP, EOSS
[23:58] <Tiger^> did dozens of launches
[23:58] <jcoxon> they don't mention anything
[23:58] <Tiger^> and they didn't hit anything
[23:58] <jcoxon> and they have done a hell of a lot of launches
[23:58] <phatmonkey> I can't see someone stupid enough to be hit by one - it's quite obvious in the sky ;)
[23:58] <jcoxon> they don't launch in such a high density area
[23:58] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, we don't actually know that
[23:58] <phatmonkey> suppose it could come up from behind, sneaky
[23:59] <phatmonkey> well, anything could happen
[23:59] <phatmonkey> i'd better get some snooze
[23:59] <phatmonkey> got exams on monday
[23:59] <jcoxon> night phatmonkey
[23:59] <jcoxon> i've only got one more, tuesday afternoon :-D
[23:59] <Tiger^> nite
[23:59] <phatmonkey> damn
[23:59] <phatmonkey> 16 more here
[23:59] <phatmonkey> gcses do indeed suck
[00:00] --- Sun Jun 4 2006