highaltitude.log.20060506

[00:00] <Tiger^> HenryHallam: remember i only have 1KB of RAM on my AVR ;)
[00:00] <jcoxon> oh the joys of 64mb of ram
[00:00] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:00] <Tiger^> yeah, right ;>
[00:01] <jcoxon> right pegasus III is ready to go
[00:01] <jcoxon> well apart from the camera
[00:02] <HenryHallam> yeah but you can hard-code a lot of stuff, you don't need all the crap to do with multimedia messages and concatenating several together or sending to a number in the phone's phonebook etc
[00:02] <HenryHallam> nice, James
[00:02] <HenryHallam> better apply for launch clearance
[00:02] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:02] <jcoxon> still actually need a payload container
[00:03] <jcoxon> i'll speak to carl about applying
[00:03] <jcoxon> best to get it done soon
[00:03] <jcoxon> we could of course do a drop test ;-p
[00:03] <HenryHallam> just say the word
[00:03] <HenryHallam> we can combine it with testing some PMR radios
[00:04] <jcoxon> don't tempt me
[00:04] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:04] <Tiger^> HenryHallam: yeah, i'm working on basic sms sending now
[00:04] <Tiger^> HenryHallam: doing it all in C on Linux, though
[00:04] <Tiger^> HenryHallam: my MAX232s haven't arrived yet, so I can't use AVR (and Bascom)
[00:05] <jcoxon> HenryHallam, i'm sure its not difficult to get a nokia 6310i
[00:05] <jcoxon> thats the one i'm using
[00:06] <HenryHallam> aww but it's a challenge
[00:06] <jcoxon> hehe
[00:06] <jcoxon> okay
[00:06] <jcoxon> make it difficult then :-p
[00:06] <HenryHallam> Tiger, you know you can make passable TTL-to-232 converter with two transistors, a diode and a couple resistors?
[00:06] <HenryHallam> make a passable*
[00:08] <Tiger^> HenryHallam: yeah, i know. or even with a 74hc14 schmitt trigger.
[00:09] <Tiger^> HenryHallam: but i don't want to waste time... porting from C to Bascom will be trivial... (i hope so ;>)
[00:10] <HenryHallam> right, good luck!
[00:10] <HenryHallam> I wouldn't mind a look at your code when you get it working :P
[00:11] <jcoxon> HenryHallam, i don't have a windows computer for sunday
[00:11] <jcoxon> just mac/linux
[00:11] <Tiger^> HenryHallam: sure :)
[00:12] <HenryHallam> ok don't worry james, we only have 6 PICs + breadboards etc anyway so people will be paired up
[00:13] <HenryHallam> have you read the protocol description txt files inside the gnokii source archive?
[00:16] <Tiger^> well i take a quick peek into them from time to time
[00:17] <Tiger^> but i don't actually need them
[00:17] <Tiger^> all i want to do is sms sending
[00:17] <HenryHallam> right
[00:17] <Tiger^> and that's well documented everywhere
[00:17] <HenryHallam> ok cool
[00:27] <jcoxon> right i think thats the first dead camera
[00:27] <jcoxon> takes about 3 attempts for me to actually not blow them up
[00:30] <HenryHallam> oh James
[00:31] <HenryHallam> how much are you paying for these?
[00:31] <jcoxon> £20
[00:31] <HenryHallam> ouch
[00:31] <jcoxon> its the bloody capacitors
[00:31] <HenryHallam> could be worse though I suppose
[00:31] <HenryHallam> what are you doing to it?
[00:31] <jcoxon> taking it apart to rig the shutter
[00:31] <HenryHallam> oh, caught the photoflash cap on something?
[00:31] <jcoxon> but they are compact cameras so one false move and you short out the capacitor
[00:32] <jcoxon> yup
[00:32] <HenryHallam> it shouldn't be the end of the world if you do that though
[00:32] <HenryHallam> anyway it doesn't need a flash on the balloon
[00:32] <HenryHallam> although if you short it out across something else vital it might cause damage
[00:32] <jcoxon> well i'll carry on
[00:32] <jcoxon> and if miraculously it works - bonus
[00:32] <HenryHallam> worth checking to see if there's a way to trigger the shutter over USB?
[00:33] <HenryHallam> or to put it into a continuously-take-pictures-every-minute mode
[00:33] <jcoxon> not on these ones
[00:34] <jcoxon> i should get the camera and just take it apart
[00:34] <jcoxon> not check it works or not
[00:38] <jcoxon> perfect:
[00:38] <jcoxon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cartoon-Digital-PC-Camera_W0QQitemZ8803580217QQcategoryZ4616QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[00:39] <HenryHallam> very nice
[00:39] <HenryHallam> to me that looks like something used for discrete surveillance
[00:39] <HenryHallam> or perverts
[00:39] <jcoxon> haha
[00:40] <HenryHallam> and they managed to misspell CMOS. Come on, it's only 4 letters!
[00:41] <jcoxon> grrr that premier is the perfect weight and shape
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[00:41] <macfreak4> heya
[00:42] <jcoxon> hey macfreak4
[00:42] <macfreak4> im at a lan party so this may be breif
[00:42] <macfreak4> so...
[00:44] <jcoxon> think i found a replacement HenryHallam :
[00:44] <jcoxon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vivitar-3713-3-MP-Digital-Camera-with-Screen-4-x-Zoom_W0QQitemZ7615928768QQcategoryZ31388QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[00:46] <jcoxon> or this:
[00:46] <jcoxon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7615959194&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BID_Stores_IT
[00:47] <HenryHallam> no way that's going to stay at £2
[00:48] <jcoxon> well i'm the highest bidder :-D
[00:49] <jcoxon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7614300574&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
[00:49] <jcoxon> its at £21
[00:49] <HenryHallam> heh someone looking at the items bought on your feedback history: mobile phone, camera, weather balloon
[00:50] <HenryHallam> yeah I'm keeping an eye on that one
[00:50] <jcoxon> hehe most of my balloons are ebay built
[00:50] <jcoxon> and on that note i'm going to bed
[00:50] <jcoxon> done far to much of pegasus tonight
[00:50] <HenryHallam> night
[00:50] <HenryHallam> see you sunday
[00:50] <jcoxon> yeah
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[01:03] <macfreak4> hi
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[02:19] <Tiger^> yay! got it working.
[02:19] <Tiger^> at least in C.
[02:24] <Tiger^> off to sleep. g'night.
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[13:07] <HenryHallam> morning
[13:07] <HenryHallam> congrats, Tiger
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[13:24] <HenryHallam> good morning
[13:24] <jcoxon> hey HenryHallam
[13:24] <HenryHallam> actually I suppose it's 1:30 now
[13:24] <jcoxon> just been on a little trip to see if my gps logs
[13:24] <jcoxon> and it does!
[13:24] <HenryHallam> does it?
[13:24] <HenryHallam> cool!
[13:25] <HenryHallam> do you remember which site it is that has the letter from Ofcom saying "get stuffed" about unmanned stations? one of yours?
[13:25] <jcoxon> http://www.fly-by-night-aerospace.co.uk/what.asp?who=Fly-By-Night-Aerospace
[13:25] <HenryHallam> thanks
[13:25] <jcoxon> is that it?
[13:26] <HenryHallam> yep
[13:28] <HenryHallam> if you use a mobile to dial up to an ordinary landline with a 56k modem attached will it get data through?
[13:29] <jcoxon> hmmm
[13:29] <HenryHallam> I have a feeling it probably will
[13:29] <jcoxon> oh it will
[13:29] <jcoxon> gnokii can do software modems
[13:29] <jcoxon> so you'll get /dev/gnokii
[13:29] <jcoxon> which acts just like a modem
[13:29] <jcoxon> there is no reason with linux why you can't do this twice
[13:30] <jcoxon> as in mobile on a payload and then at base attached to a laptop
[13:30] <jcoxon> then a ppp link can be made
[13:30] <jcoxon> and it'll be as if you are networked
[13:30] <jcoxon> and use free minutes :-D
[13:30] <HenryHallam> indeed
[13:30] <jcoxon> i've done it before for peg II
[13:30] <jcoxon> but it was unreliable
[13:30] <HenryHallam> useful if it gets stuck somewhere out of reach but within GSM range
[13:30] <jcoxon> but that was due to some power issues
[13:31] <jcoxon> exactly
[13:31] <jcoxon> or get it to dial the internet
[13:31] <jcoxon> and then upload positions to IRC
[13:31] <HenryHallam> hehe
[13:31] <HenryHallam> that's where GPRS would be nice, because they only charge per kB
[13:31] <jcoxon> well its actually the easist thing to do (now that i've written an irc client)
[13:32] <jcoxon> and if i did it here zeusbot would log it
[13:32] <jcoxon> i'm tempted to write a script that after 3 hours dials up
[13:32] <jcoxon> uploads gps.log
[13:32] <jcoxon> and then disappears
[13:32] <HenryHallam> make sure freenode wouldn't kick it off for flooding
[13:33] <jcoxon> do it line by line
[13:33] <jcoxon> or i could just ftp it up
[13:34] <HenryHallam> that might be safer
[13:34] <jcoxon> yeah
[13:35] <HenryHallam> I'm going to get something to eat, brb
[13:35] <jcoxon> cool
[13:51] <jcoxon> right will be back later
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[16:31] <jcoxon> hey everyone
[16:34] <icez> hey
[16:37] <jcoxon> hows it going icez
[16:45] <icez> good good, you?
[16:46] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:47] <jcoxon> just been working on pegasus III
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[19:19] <Tiger^> ok, i can now send arbitrary sms msgs through FBUS.
[19:19] <Tiger^> :)
[19:19] <Tiger^> so all i have to do is port it to Bascom and test it when all the parts arrive
[19:51] <jcoxon> :-D
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[19:59] <macfreak4> heya
[20:20] <Tiger^> and i just bought a prepaid card for the balloon phone :)
[20:22] <jcoxon> :-D
[20:22] <jcoxon> is the phone your back up?
[20:23] <Tiger^> yup
[20:24] <Tiger^> after the landing
[20:24] <Tiger^> maybe, but that's just a maybe
[20:24] <Tiger^> i'll add the code to control a piezo buzzer
[20:24] <Tiger^> so i'll be able to turn it on/off via sms
[20:25] <Tiger^> but i can already do that via radio
[20:28] <jcoxon> no harm in more backups
[20:28] <jcoxon> i've managed to rescue my camera
[20:28] <jcoxon> i thought i blew it up yesterday
[20:28] <jcoxon> but it actually seems to work now that i've taken it apart
[20:29] <Tiger^> great
[20:29] <jcoxon> well it sort of works :-D
[20:29] <macfreak4> lol
[20:29] <jcoxon> it won't actually take a picture
[20:30] <macfreak4> oh?
[20:30] <jcoxon> i think its cause i've removed the flah
[20:30] <jcoxon> it does movies
[20:30] <jcoxon> but that not what i want
[20:30] <macfreak4> o
[20:30] <Tiger^> :)
[20:34] <macfreak4> I'm a bit confused here...
[20:34] <jcoxon> ?
[20:34] <macfreak4> the FreeSpace group sent up an 11lb payload in a 1200 gram balloon to 90,000ft when the 8lb Balloon v1.0 went to 80,000ft on a 1500 gram balloon
[20:35] <macfreak4> both from Kaymont
[20:35] <jcoxon> varying conditions
[20:35] <jcoxon> Freespace did theirs in the desert iirc
[20:35] <jcoxon> and it was really hot
[20:35] <jcoxon> so you'll get more lift
[20:35] <macfreak4> Oh is that more favourable for latex? I suppose the heat caused the latex to expand
[20:36] <macfreak4> thus having a higher burst altitude...
[20:36] <jcoxon> and gave the He more energy
[20:36] <macfreak4> ok
[20:36] <macfreak4> I'm still determining what balloon to buy
[20:36] <macfreak4> and the launch date is less than 3 weeks away (!!)
[20:36] <jcoxon> whats your payload weight?
[20:36] <macfreak4> 6-7lbs
[20:36] <macfreak4> most likely
[20:37] <jcoxon> + an extra lb of lift
[20:37] <macfreak4> i mean, its already about 5lbs
[20:37] <macfreak4> i don't have the HT yet
[20:37] <macfreak4> and whatever extra weight is needed for its batteries
[20:37] <jcoxon> i reckon a 1200gm is a good one to go for
[20:37] <macfreak4> ok
[20:37] <jcoxon> will get you a fair altitude
[20:37] <macfreak4> bbiab
[20:38] <macfreak4> kk
[20:38] <macfreak4> i'll be right back in a few mins
[20:41] <jcoxon> yay
[20:41] <jcoxon> it works
[21:00] <jcoxon> brb
[21:26] <macfreak4> hey
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[21:54] <macfreak4> well i just learned a thing or two about cutting glass
[21:54] <macfreak4> lol
[21:55] <macfreak4> er cutting mirrors
[22:23] <Tiger^> ok guys, my rigged camera
[22:23] <Tiger^> and almost finished airframe :P
[22:23] <Tiger^> http://moo.pl/~tygrys/junk/bal/
[22:25] <macfreak4> thats awesome
[22:26] <Tiger^> thanks ;>
[22:26] <Tiger^> the camera is pure crap
[22:26] <Tiger^> i'm proud of the airframe, though
[22:27] <Tiger^> but i haven't decided yet which one to choose
[22:27] <Tiger^> this one or the lunch bag
[22:28] <Tiger^> this airframe seems superior, so i guess the cold test in dry ice will decide :)
[22:28] <macfreak4> so the camera is the little pcb in the pictures?
[22:29] <Tiger^> yup
[22:29] <Tiger^> an Aiptek Pencam
[22:30] <macfreak4> what's its resolution?
[22:30] <macfreak4> it uses a CMOS sensor, right/
[22:30] <Tiger^> 1.3MP, but don't even try to use the max resolution :>
[22:30] <macfreak4> o lol
[22:30] <Tiger^> i'll use 640x480
[22:30] <Tiger^> yup, it's a CMOS.
[22:31] <macfreak4> here's what I have so far: http://macfreak4.homeunix.com/photos/DSCN0039.JPG
[22:31] <macfreak4> and onboard control circuitry: http://macfreak4.homeunix.com/photos/DSCN0008.JPG
[22:32] <Tiger^> now that's cool :)
[22:32] <macfreak4> thx :D
[22:32] <Tiger^> i think my styrofoam is better than your styrofoam though!
[22:32] <Tiger^> lol
[22:32] <macfreak4> ya i agree
[22:33] <macfreak4> o well
[22:33] <macfreak4> lol
[22:33] <Tiger^> but you're ahead of me
[22:33] <Tiger^> i still don't have the flight computer
[22:33] <macfreak4> well my launch date is 2 weeks away so i need to get a move-on
[22:33] <Tiger^> yeah
[22:33] <macfreak4> but i'm working on a rotating mirror assembly so I can look down, too
[22:33] <Tiger^> what do you use as the flight comp?
[22:34] <macfreak4> a Dell Latitude Pentium II booting off of a 1GB CF card
[22:34] <Tiger^> it looks like some kind of a one board pc
[22:34] <macfreak4> :P
[22:34] <macfreak4> ya
[22:34] <Tiger^> oh :)
[22:34] <macfreak4> its just the motherboard, tho, and its very light
[22:34] <macfreak4> the main problem is its 10 watt power consumption
[22:34] <macfreak4> ;)
[22:34] <Tiger^> damn :)
[22:34] <Tiger^> 10 watts can be a killer
[22:35] <macfreak4> yea
[22:35] <macfreak4> its running off of 20 3Ah AA batteries
[22:35] <Tiger^> hehe
[22:36] <Tiger^> i've designed my whole avionics to draw 200-300mA
[22:36] <Tiger^> 1.5W max
[22:37] <Tiger^> from the main bus
[22:38] <macfreak4> running off of lithiums, I assume?
[22:39] <Tiger^> yeah, those energizers that kd7lmo (and pretty much everyone else) uses.
[22:40] <macfreak4> oh
[22:40] <macfreak4> i just used some ol off-brand ones on ebay
[22:40] <Tiger^> hmm
[22:40] <macfreak4> http://cgi.ebay.com/20-AA-1-5V-Ultra-Capacity-Lithium-Battery-2900mAh_W0QQitemZ9721761015QQcategoryZ50616QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:40] <macfreak4> those
[22:40] <Tiger^> i'd be afraid
[22:41] <macfreak4> why?
[22:41] <Tiger^> well it's not a known brand, is it?
[22:42] <Tiger^> this stuff can die on you
[22:42] <macfreak4> so? i've tested off-brand alkalines before that outperformed Energizer and Duracell
[22:42] <macfreak4> to me its just the brand-name game
[22:42] <macfreak4> *shruggs*
[22:45] <Tiger^> maybe... i won't be surprised if they work fine
[22:45] <Tiger^> http://www.kd7lmo.net/images/picobeacon_batteries.jpg
[22:45] <Tiger^> these are the ones i use
[22:45] <Tiger^> Energizer L91
[22:49] <macfreak4> ah yea
[22:52] <macfreak4> its a real trick trying to spraypaint styrofoam, tho
[22:53] <macfreak4> i had to put a coat of white exterior paint on first, let it dry, then spray the orange on
[22:53] <macfreak4> and even then I had problems
[22:53] <macfreak4> because spraypaint dissolves styrofoam
[22:55] <Tiger^> hmm
[22:56] <Tiger^> why didn't you just use outer coating
[22:56] <Tiger^> like a nylon jacket or something
[22:57] <macfreak4> i dunno
[22:57] <macfreak4> it works
[22:57] <Tiger^> hmm
[22:57] <Tiger^> where will you attach the payload line?
[22:58] <Tiger^> and the shroud lines from the chute?
[22:59] <macfreak4> shroud lines from the chute?
[22:59] <macfreak4> its all part of the payload line
[23:00] <macfreak4> Payload<---->Parachute<---->Balloon
[23:01] <Tiger^> hmm
[23:01] <macfreak4> right?
[23:01] <Tiger^> ok
[23:01] <macfreak4> isnt that how ppl do it?
[23:01] <Tiger^> well maybe
[23:01] <Tiger^> i'll use a slightly diffrent design
[23:02] <macfreak4> the computer ejects the parachute?
[23:02] <Tiger^> no no, it'd be too complicated
[23:03] <Tiger^> it's just that i think of attaching the chute directly to the payload
[23:03] <Tiger^> it's like... payload===>chute------------>balloon
[23:03] <Tiger^> :)
[23:05] <Tiger^> are you going to attach the payload line to the styrofoam?
[23:11] <macfreak4> not through it
[23:12] <macfreak4> it would tear
[23:12] <macfreak4> i'm going to loop some cord around the bottom and use something (duct tape?) to secure it.
[23:12] <macfreak4> then the four lines meet and go up to the chute
[23:12] <Tiger^> right
[23:13] <Tiger^> i'm thinking about two ways
[23:13] <Tiger^> looping the cord, or a wireframe around the airframe
[23:14] <Tiger^> or sewing key rings into the nylon jacket
[23:14] <macfreak4> yea
[23:14] <macfreak4> i don't see it as a major issue
[23:14] <macfreak4> i mean, all it's gotta hold is 6-7lbs (for me) ;)
[23:14] <Tiger^> yeah
[23:15] <macfreak4> on the other hand it would be really stupid to see the payload come tumbling down and crash at 20,000 ft :P
[23:18] <macfreak4> yay
[23:18] <macfreak4> finished the mirror assembly
[23:19] <macfreak4> i would post some pictures but i cant find my card reader :/
[23:41] <Tiger^> think i'll file for my flight permit on monday
[23:41] <Tiger^> i have a bad feeling about this...
[23:43] <macfreak4> flight permit?
[23:43] <Tiger^> yeah
[23:43] <macfreak4> ?
[23:44] <Tiger^> you're required to get a permit in Poland
[23:44] <Tiger^> just as in the UK
[23:44] <macfreak4> oh
[23:44] <macfreak4> did not know that
[23:44] <Tiger^> yeah, you don't need one from the FAA, right?
[23:45] <Tiger^> just as long as it's not a heavy balloon
[23:45] <macfreak4> no, in the US you don't need a permit but the FAA needs to know all the details of the launch
[23:45] <Tiger^> yeah
[23:45] <macfreak4> oh yes
[23:45] <macfreak4> sry misread your msg
[23:45] <macfreak4> ya but its still a good idea to let them know ahead of time
[23:45] <Tiger^> yeah
[23:47] <Tiger^> and in Poland the authorities still haven't broken with their communist past, you know ;)
[23:48] <Tiger^> maybe it won't be as hard as i think, but...
[23:49] <macfreak4> lol
[23:49] <Tiger^> easy for you to laugh
[23:50] <Tiger^> but i have to live here! ;>
[23:50] <macfreak4> sry
[23:50] <macfreak4> :(
[23:50] <Tiger^> that's ok
[23:50] <Tiger^> and besides, the pope is coming to Poland during my launch window
[23:51] <Tiger^> so maybe some ppl will think that this is some bomb carrying device to kill hin
[23:51] <Tiger^> him*
[23:51] <Tiger^> or something
[23:51] <Tiger^> lol
[23:51] <macfreak4> hmm
[23:51] <macfreak4> that shouldnt be a problem tho
[23:52] <macfreak4> maybe a little but...?
[23:52] <macfreak4> well I don't know Polish politics so maybe ur right
[23:52] <Tiger^> i think it'll be fine
[23:53] <Tiger^> our national weather service launches quite a few balloons every day
[23:54] <macfreak4> o ok
[00:00] --- Sun May 7 2006