highaltitude.log.20060504

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[01:39] <macfreak4> hey
[01:54] <macfreak4> nobody?
[01:55] <defy> hey :)
[01:55] <macfreak4> o hi
[02:34] <macfreak4> yay just finished my j-pole
[02:34] <macfreak4> :D
[02:35] <defy> cool
[02:36] <macfreak4> is that the antenna that you're using on your balloon?
[02:37] <defy> I thought about it but haven't decided yet
[02:37] <defy> still deciding on what radio I'm going to use
[02:38] <macfreak4> o ok
[02:38] <defy> I'm having a tough time figuring out if its legal for me to use the aerocomm modules with the 8-900 frequency ranges here
[02:38] <macfreak4> what are those?
[02:38] <defy> http://www.aerocomm.com/rf_transceiver_modules/ac4490_900mhz_rf_transceiver.htm
[02:39] <defy> drop in serial cable replacement
[02:39] <defy> the 900mhz 1watt module will do 20 miles
[02:39] <icez> it's always legal as long as they don't find out;)
[02:39] <defy> haha yea, theres always that...which I'm also considering :P
[02:40] <defy> they do a 2.4ghz module...but the range is crap (well, good for 2.4...but crap for this project)
[02:40] <icez> well
[02:40] <icez> aren't some older cordless phones 900mhz?
[02:40] <defy> i think so
[02:40] <icez> so they should be legal
[02:40] <defy> yea but they wont be 1watt :P
[02:41] <macfreak4> yeah the laws are based on pwr output
[02:41] <defy> although if the frequency is allowed here, and its just a matter of power
[02:41] <defy> then ill use it anyway
[02:41] <icez> where is here?
[02:41] <defy> cause i'll be out in the middle of nowhere when I use it
[02:41] <defy> new zealand
[02:41] <icez> oh...
[02:42] <icez> that's way over there
[02:42] <defy> yea :P
[02:42] <macfreak4> lol
[02:42] <icez> i heard it's bewtiful though
[02:42] <icez> is that true?
[02:42] <defy> yea...its like anywhere really, there are parts that are amazing
[02:42] <defy> i live in auckland though, its pretty average
[02:43] <macfreak4> o
[02:43] <defy> I'm originally from the states though
[02:44] <macfreak4> o ok
[02:44] <macfreak4> where in the states?
[02:44] <defy> cali
[02:44] <macfreak4> LA? San Diego?
[02:44] <defy> sacramento
[02:44] <macfreak4> o ok
[02:45] <macfreak4> well i just built my j-pole and i found another site with different dimensions
[02:45] <macfreak4> for the 2-meter band, that is
[02:45] <defy> the balloon v1 site links to j-pole instructions I believe
[02:45] <macfreak4> :/
[02:45] <macfreak4> ya
[02:45] <macfreak4> thats the one that differs
[02:46] <defy> ah, hehe
[02:46] <macfreak4> heres the one I built
[02:46] <macfreak4> http://www.bloomington.in.us/~wh2t/Jpole.htm
[02:47] <defy> make both and just run some good tests :P
[02:47] <macfreak4> well i gotta buy more cable then
[02:47] <macfreak4> lol
[02:47] <macfreak4> but i'd only be able to tell the difference from range, right?
[02:48] <macfreak4> i guess i could go a few blocks away and see
[02:48] <macfreak4> lol
[02:49] <defy> no mountains or anything to test true line of site?
[02:49] <macfreak4> no
[02:49] <macfreak4> im in the missisippi valley
[02:49] <macfreak4> mississippi*
[02:49] <macfreak4> mississippi river*
[02:50] <macfreak4> there :P
[02:50] <defy> ah, cool
[02:51] <macfreak4> so not really any mountains here
[02:52] <macfreak4> i think i'll just use the one link on Balloon v1.0
[02:52] <macfreak4> because its been proven good
[02:52] <macfreak4> seems like this other one is tuned to a higher frequency
[02:54] <defy> sweet
[02:56] <macfreak4> no not sweet
[02:56] <macfreak4> lol
[02:57] <defy> :P i meant that you'll use the one thats proven to work
[02:57] <defy> sounds like a better idea
[02:57] <macfreak4> o ok
[02:57] <macfreak4> thought you were saying sweet to 'is tuned to a higher frequency'
[02:57] <macfreak4> my bad ;)
[02:57] <defy> hehe
[03:02] <macfreak4> well i go to study now
[03:02] <macfreak4> cya
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[10:22] <defy> hey
[10:23] <defy> no luck with the gps huh
[10:46] <jcoxon> nah
[10:46] <jcoxon> still being weird
[10:47] <jcoxon> is yours working?
[10:47] <defy> I don't have the proper antenna yet so I don't know for sure
[10:47] <defy> should have it in the next couple of days
[10:48] <defy> but it doesn't work with the one I'm using, and without one at all
[10:51] <jcoxon> what data are you getting?
[10:52] <defy> just the default data, don't remember exactly what it said but it wasn't getting a fix
[10:52] <jcoxon> just wondering if its the same as mine and perhaps a demo output
[10:54] <defy> just booting it now...
[10:55] <jcoxon> thanks defy
[10:55] <jcoxon> i'm thinking we need to send it a particular command
[10:55] <jcoxon> to get it to properly output
[10:57] <defy> http://defy.net/gpsd.txt
[10:59] <jcoxon> looks very similar
[10:59] <jcoxon> i'll grab mine again and check
[10:59] <jcoxon> if you telnet in to gpsd and ask for hte date what do you get?
[11:00] <defy> Escape character is '^]'.
[11:00] <defy> D
[11:00] <defy> GPSD,D=1923-05-04T20:51:120.00Z
[11:00] <defy> is it D? i assume so
[11:01] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:01] <jcoxon> well the day and month are correct
[11:01] <jcoxon> i was getting 1905 yesterday
[11:02] <defy> weird
[11:03] <defy> does yours pick the generic nmea driver?
[11:03] <jcoxon> well with the latest flash gpsd doesn't work at all
[11:04] <jcoxon> it seems to just close ttyS2
[11:04] <defy> what version is that? 2.32?
[11:04] <jcoxon> 2.30
[11:05] <jcoxon> its just the default buildroot one
[11:05] <defy> ah ok ..i'm using a buildroot from about 2 weeks ago
[11:06] <defy> same version
[11:06] <jcoxon> i'm upgrading it now to 2.32
[11:07] <jcoxon> see what happens
[11:08] <defy> still applying all the patches?
[11:08] <jcoxon> was planning to
[11:12] <defy> hrm
[11:12] <defy> do you know if the antennas need a power src?
[11:13] <jcoxon> well it doesn't have a connection
[11:13] <jcoxon> right unsuprisingly the patches don't patch
[11:14] <defy> hehe yea
[11:14] <defy> i found they weren't _too_ important when i used 2.13
[11:15] <defy> the gps's data sheets talk about an antenna supervisor but i can't tell if thats something that need enabling, or if its even required for the antennas from sparkfun
[11:18] <defy> http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/GPS/G050A.pdf
[11:18] <defy> is that the same one you have?
[11:20] <defy> thats the one I ordered, which aparently needs 5v...i think the antenna superviser is what gives power to active antennas
[11:21] <jcoxon> http://www.weiyang.com.tw/gps-antenna/02.htm
[11:21] <jcoxon> thats what i have
[11:22] <defy> also needs power
[11:22] <defy> my multimeter says no voltage is coming out of the sma connector
[11:23] <defy> does yours use batteries?
[11:23] <jcoxon> well i can't see how we can input power
[11:24] <defy> hrm
[11:25] <defy> i really know nothing about active/passive antennas...or radio for that matter
[11:26] <jcoxon> same
[11:26] <jcoxon> grrr
[11:26] <jcoxon> it seems like no one has actually got a link
[11:26] <defy> i hope gumstix tested it before going into production :P
[11:27] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:27] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:31] <defy> ok, just spoke to my flatmate...he's a bit more clued up on this stuff than i am
[11:31] <defy> active antennas do indeed need voltage
[11:31] <defy> and that voltage can be supplied from the sma connector
[11:32] <defy> and its either just a jumper, or a software setting to activate it
[11:32] <jcoxon> right
[11:33] <jcoxon> 3 lines are connect from the sma to the gps chip
[11:35] <defy> which ones?
[11:36] <jcoxon> the central pin and the two pins nearest the chip
[11:36] <jcoxon> so one is gnd, one must be vcc and the other rx
[11:41] <defy> hrm
[11:41] <defy> data sheet says those are 2 grounds and rf_in
[11:41] <defy> unless i have it upside down, but pins 1 and 2 arne't used...
[11:42] <jcoxon> the central pin is rf_in?
[11:42] <defy> http://www.u-blox.com/customersupport/Data_Sheets/LEA-4H_Data_Sheet(GPS.G4-MS4-05019).pdf
[11:42] <jcoxon> okay the outside of the container is connect to the 4 outer pins
[11:42] <defy> im not sure which perspective to read that diagram from...on page 8
[11:43] <defy> those 4 outer are connected to 2 grounds from the looks of it
[11:44] <jcoxon> yeah and the centre is attached to RF_in
[11:44] <jcoxon> to me though a sma connector just has ground and RF_in
[11:45] <jcoxon> don't see how power can be transmitted
[11:45] <defy> vcc_rf seems to be the antenna voltage pin, which is pin 18
[11:45] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:45] <defy> which is directly below the last pin being used by the sma
[11:45] <jcoxon> but it isn't connected to anything
[11:45] <defy> but i cant tell if its actually connected
[11:45] <defy> hrm
[11:46] <jcoxon> the 4th one along isn't connected
[11:46] <defy> hrm
[11:46] <jcoxon> v_ant is to GND
[11:46] <jcoxon> which is the 5th along
[11:48] <defy> is that one actually connected?
[11:48] <defy> it looks like its connected to the bottom right sma pin
[11:49] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:49] <jcoxon> v_ant looks connected to that pin
[11:49] <jcoxon> as well as gnd (17)
[11:49] <defy> so they hooked up the v_ant, which is the antenna ground? but not the antenna voltage?
[11:49] <jcoxon> guess so
[11:50] <jcoxon> but where would you attach vcc_rf?
[11:50] <defy> yea exactly, i have no idea
[11:50] <jcoxon> aarrgghhhhh
[11:50] <jcoxon> hehe
[11:51] <defy> ah well if noone can get it working they'll have to respond sooner or later
[11:51] <defy> they always seem to be really good about responding to stuff
[11:52] <defy> its surprising how helpful the gumstix community is...most arne't
[11:52] <jcoxon> yeah
[11:52] <jcoxon> tis a good community - got some solid rocks
[11:52] <jcoxon> like dave hylands
[11:52] <jcoxon> he seems to know everything
[11:52] <defy> hehe
[11:57] <defy> the only place you could power it from would be the rf, but i cant see putting voltage into that being a good thing
[11:59] <defy> ah well i better get to sleep, ttyl :)
[11:59] <jcoxon> night
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[17:34] <defy> hey :) see that email? we have to hack the gpsstix to get it to work with active antennas
[17:36] <jcoxon> hey defy
[17:37] <jcoxon> not sure i actually understand gordon's email
[17:39] <jcoxon> also how do you pass power to the active antenna?
[17:42] <defy> yea thats what im asking
[17:44] <defy> the other thing though is that pin 20 is the active antenna detection
[17:44] <defy> which turns the power on
[17:44] <defy> and thats not connected to anything either, gorden didn't mention it
[17:44] <jcoxon> i've got two active antennas so i've taken one apart
[17:44] <jcoxon> tempted to cut the cable to see whats inside
[17:46] <defy> hehe
[17:47] <defy> my flatmate reckons they are powered through the RF
[17:48] <defy> just at different frequencies so they dont get mixed up...but i wouldnt think that hooking that pin directly to the rf_in would be a good thing
[17:48] <jcoxon> right well there are only 2 possible routes
[17:48] <jcoxon> the centre copper cable
[17:49] <jcoxon> and the outside silverey one
[17:49] <defy> but from gordens email it sounds like they've made passive antennas the only option
[17:49] <defy> yea, center will be the rf into the gumstix
[17:49] <defy> gpstix*
[17:50] <defy> it must be
[17:51] <jcoxon> http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/28/how-to-add-your-own-external-gps-antenna/
[17:53] <defy> hrm
[17:56] <jcoxon> well vcc_rf definitly gives out a voltage
[17:56] <jcoxon> just lit an LED with it
[17:57] <jcoxon> so do you connect vcc_rf with a 10K resistor to the central pin?
[17:57] <defy> interesting
[17:58] <defy> not too sure, i just asked gordon where its suppose to go on the list
[18:00] <defy> but i guess thats the only place that goes to the antenna, so it must be
[18:00] <defy> cant be the outside, thats all grounded
[18:02] <Tiger^> hey
[18:02] <defy> but the data sheet says "apply no dc through this pin" for the RF_IN, i guess maybe the RF in VCC_RF is what makes it acceptable?
[18:02] <jcoxon> hey Tiger^
[18:02] <defy> hi Tiger^
[18:02] <Tiger^> hi, jcoxon, defy
[18:03] <Tiger^> an active antenna should deinitely be powered through a separate lead
[18:03] <Tiger^> err, definitely
[18:04] <Tiger^> they even should have a capacitor inside that blocks DC static and passes AC RF
[18:04] <defy> yeah? those enclosed ones dont really look like they have a place for more cables
[18:04] <jcoxon> grrrr
[18:04] <Tiger^> unless it's some tricky design
[18:04] <Tiger^> defy: then maybe it's passive? :)
[18:05] <jcoxon> it really seems that most active antenna run through sma connectors
[18:05] <defy> well these antennas say they require voltage
[18:05] <jcoxon> oooo new email
[18:05] <jcoxon> connect 18 and 19 with resistor
[18:05] <defy> i see, leon just replied, aparently connecting pins 18 and 19
[18:05] <defy> haha, yea :P
[18:06] <jcoxon> now to read some of my resistors
[18:06] <jcoxon> can never do it
[18:06] <defy> hrm
[18:06] <Tiger^> use the chart on kpsec
[18:06] <defy> so the voltage is passed through the sheilding?
[18:07] <defy> ah i see, that png they posted helps...
[18:09] <defy> these pads will be fun to solder to :P
[18:14] <jcoxon> right so i have a 2200 resistor and a 75 to hand
[18:15] <jcoxon> would the 75 be best?
[18:16] <Tiger^> 75 or 75k? :)
[18:16] <jcoxon> 75
[18:16] <jcoxon> gordon did say but a 10R
[18:17] <jcoxon> which i assume is just 10ohms
[18:17] <Tiger^> it is
[18:17] <Tiger^> R = ohm
[18:17] <jcoxon> thats what i thought
[18:17] <Tiger^> it has to be a non inductive resistor
[18:17] <Tiger^> carbon
[18:17] <Tiger^> not metal or wound
[18:18] <jcoxon> how do i tell
[18:18] <jcoxon> it looks like a resistor to me
[18:18] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:18] Action: jcoxon is terrible at electronics
[18:18] Action: jcoxon hopes to learn one day
[18:18] <Tiger^> hmm
[18:18] <Tiger^> if it looks like a resistor, it should be carbon
[18:18] <Tiger^> :)
[18:18] <Tiger^> so you're probably ok
[18:18] <jcoxon> cool
[18:32] Action: Tiger^ has just got a Nokia 5110
[18:32] <Tiger^> wonder if it works
[18:37] Action: jcoxon thinks these resisitors are broken
[18:37] <jcoxon> they don't pass any current at all
[18:40] <Tiger^> they should
[18:41] <jcoxon> yeah i think something is wrong with them
[18:41] <jcoxon> they are slightly recycled
[18:41] <jcoxon> probably best i get some new ones tomorrow
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[23:58] <macfreak4> hi
[00:00] --- Fri May 5 2006