highaltitude.log.20060330

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[17:52] phatmonkey (n=phatmonk@65.98.2.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[17:54] <phatmonkey> can anyone tell me if they find a reeeaaallly cheap slug
[17:54] <phatmonkey> like that ?35 one
[17:54] <phatmonkey> I really want to get something in the air
[17:55] <phatmonkey> I'll buy a load of really cheap equipment
[17:55] <phatmonkey> just gps, slug, phone and camera
[17:55] <phatmonkey> and just send something up on a parachute in the easter holidays
[17:55] <phatmonkey> I'm getting sick of sitting around on my arse figuring out how to do a glider!
[17:56] <phatmonkey> I guess I'll look out for a bargain on ebay
[17:57] <phatmonkey> and find a really cheap gps
[17:57] <jcoxon> hehe
[17:57] <jcoxon> how about slugs on ebay?
[17:58] <phatmonkey> they're not /that/ cheap
[17:58] <phatmonkey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9704185192&fromMakeTrack=true
[17:58] <phatmonkey> that'll probably go up
[17:58] <jcoxon> hmmmmm
[17:58] <phatmonkey> quite a bit
[17:59] <jcoxon> i'm sitting on my arse right now
[17:59] <jcoxon> got to wait for 2 weeks for my gumstix
[17:59] <phatmonkey> yikes
[17:59] <phatmonkey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Linksys-NSLU2-Network-Storage-Link-USB2-0_W0QQitemZ9703515096QQcategoryZ50197QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[17:59] <jcoxon> they are shipping the new gps daughterboard when its made
[17:59] <phatmonkey> I'll keep an eye on that too
[17:59] <phatmonkey> ah, nice
[17:59] <phatmonkey> I do love my slugs
[18:00] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:00] <jcoxon> in the mean time i've been learning how to program
[18:00] <jcoxon> and
[18:00] <jcoxon> thinking about how to maintain 60,000ft +
[18:00] <jcoxon> over the same place
[18:00] <jcoxon> thinking compressed air as a propellent
[18:03] <phatmonkey> or big ass propellors
[18:03] <phatmonkey> with solar panels
[18:03] <phatmonkey> I would be really interested in a project like this - sign me up
[18:03] <phatmonkey> :D
[18:03] <jcoxon> well its sort of what hte cambridge team want to do
[18:03] <phatmonkey> yeah
[18:03] <jcoxon> http://www.cambridgenovaproject.org
[18:03] <phatmonkey> some sort of artificial satellite
[18:04] <phatmonkey> ooh
[18:04] <jcoxon> http://cambridgenovaproject.org/
[18:04] <jcoxon> yeah
[18:04] <phatmonkey> it shouldn't move far
[18:04] <jcoxon> you'd use other balloons to lift it to the height
[18:04] <phatmonkey> so efficient propellors should do it
[18:04] <phatmonkey> yeah
[18:04] <jcoxon> i was explaining it to someone last night and i realised an amazing use for it
[18:05] <jcoxon> the hurricane in new orleans - communication blackout
[18:05] <jcoxon> within 3 hours you could have a "satelitte" overhead
[18:05] <phatmonkey> yes
[18:06] <jcoxon> we need to get launching!
[18:06] <jcoxon> the guy on lastnight rob i think was his name pointed me to another ebay seller selling 500gm balloons
[18:06] <phatmonkey> I would be seriously interested in setting up an artificial satellite
[18:06] <phatmonkey> ooh, nice
[18:06] <phatmonkey> link me
[18:07] <phatmonkey> we would need to use amateur radio for communication though
[18:07] <phatmonkey> something reliable
[18:07] <jcoxon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9503713197&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT&rd=1
[18:07] <phatmonkey> it would use a bit of power just for solar panels I guess
[18:07] <phatmonkey> it could turn it on for a few minutes every day
[18:08] <phatmonkey> anywho, food
[18:08] <phatmonkey> bbiab
[18:08] <jcoxon> cya
[18:31] <phatmonkey> back
[20:28] robhouse (n=rob@cpc2-port4-6-1-cust34.cos2.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:31] <robhouse> evening all
[20:31] <phatmonkey> evening!
[20:32] <robhouse> found this link earlier today: http://scipp.ucsc.edu/outreach/balloon/
[20:33] <robhouse> has a few bits on balloons, including some calculations. quite useful for begginers.
[20:34] <phatmonkey> nice
[20:36] <phatmonkey> we really have kicked off a new little generation of balloon builders with this
[20:37] <phatmonkey> maybe we should start something bigger
[20:37] <phatmonkey> at least some way for us to all work together and share ideas well
[20:38] <robhouse> yeah, it would be good to have a central resource
[20:43] <robhouse> Hey phatmonkey, just been having a look at your website - just wondering what dvb-t card you're using in your mythtv box?
[20:43] <phatmonkey> not 100% sure
[20:44] <phatmonkey> I think it's a hauppauge card of some sort
[20:44] <phatmonkey> nova-t
[20:44] <phatmonkey> the earlier model
[20:44] <phatmonkey> I think the later one doesn't work as well
[20:44] <robhouse> cool, I have a very similar setup - 2 x Hauppauge Nova-T, Ubuntu, etc...
[20:44] <phatmonkey> yeah
[20:44] <phatmonkey> 0000:00:09.0 Multimedia controller: Philips Semiconductors SAA7146 (rev 01)
[20:45] <phatmonkey> <3 mythtv
[20:45] <phatmonkey> I really need more tuners though
[20:45] <robhouse> hehe
[20:45] <phatmonkey> now I'm starting to set up clients around the house
[20:45] <phatmonkey> one tuner is a bit chaotic
[20:45] <robhouse> I have 2 of the new Nova-T's and have had no problems under Fedora Core 4 or Ubuntu 5.1
[20:46] <phatmonkey> http://search.ebay.co.uk/nova-t_W0QQfromZR40QQsatitleZnovaQ2dt
[20:46] <phatmonkey> they aren't oo expensive either
[20:46] <phatmonkey> too
[20:47] <robhouse> They're good value - they're only £39 new now
[20:48] <phatmonkey> yeah
[20:59] <jcoxon> hey guys
[21:01] <robhouse> hi
[21:01] <jcoxon> :-D organised my dates for the summer
[21:01] <robhouse> cool
[21:01] <jcoxon> going to Niger for 2 weeks to launch balloons!
[21:02] <robhouse> ooo, i'm so jealous!!!
[21:02] <jcoxon> oh robhouse i sorted those programming issue
[21:02] <robhouse> cool, what was the issue?
[21:02] <robhouse> sorry, that should read what was the solution
[21:03] <jcoxon> not really sure, but some posted an example of the correct code
[21:03] <jcoxon> i used that
[21:03] <jcoxon> :-D
[21:03] <jcoxon> enough about programming, balloons!
[21:03] <robhouse> lol
[21:04] <jcoxon> i've got 2 weeks to wait before i can start work on pegasus III :(
[21:04] <robhouse> I found this site earlier: http://scipp.ucsc.edu/outreach/balloon/
[21:04] <robhouse> it has info on different projects and discusses tethered balloons :)
[21:04] <jcoxon> oooo i'll add that to my links page
[21:05] <robhouse> The link "Practical Guide To Balloon Research" from the left hand menu, seems to be pretty good.
[21:07] <jcoxon> if you find any good links i don't have do email me - trying to get a really good links page
[21:07] <robhouse> Will do
[21:08] <robhouse> I'll check my bookmarks at work tomorrow, think I might have another 1 or 2
[21:09] <jcoxon> cool
[21:13] <jcoxon> hmmm i've been offered some webspace but need to get domain
[21:13] <jcoxon> not sure what domain to get
[21:13] <phatmonkey> oh wow, niger sounds amazing
[21:14] <jcoxon> www.pegasushabprojct.org?
[21:14] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, yeah, going to do 2 weeks there
[21:14] <phatmonkey> one more reason to get into cambridge
[21:14] <jcoxon> www.pegasushabproject.org
[21:14] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:14] <phatmonkey> shall we create a communal high altitude balloon site?
[21:14] <phatmonkey> some sort of organisation
[21:14] <jcoxon> if all goes to plan with the cambridge nova balloon project i don't see any reason why you can't come up to visit!
[21:15] <phatmonkey> ooh, cool!
[21:15] <phatmonkey> we could do a mass balloon launch!
[21:15] <phatmonkey> hehe
[21:15] <jcoxon> not sure the CAA will be to happy, hehe
[21:15] <phatmonkey> I've been thinking of how to make some really little balloons
[21:15] <phatmonkey> tracking things
[21:15] <jcoxon> i'm definitly thinking a UK organistation
[21:15] <phatmonkey> with a little camera
[21:15] <jcoxon> phatmonkey, i think thats a really good idea
[21:16] <phatmonkey> and maybe organise something with a school
[21:16] <jcoxon> use a small stamp processor, AT phone, gps
[21:16] <robhouse> all sounds good
[21:16] <phatmonkey> each kid could have their balloon
[21:16] <phatmonkey> yeah
[21:16] <phatmonkey> and they can decide what to put on it
[21:16] <jcoxon> or one balloon and a train
[21:16] <phatmonkey> or we could start carrying up school experiments on our balloons
[21:16] <phatmonkey> like those podsats (or something)
[21:16] <phatmonkey> yeah
[21:16] <jcoxon> need a reliable launch system
[21:16] <phatmonkey> where experiments were put in a table tennis ball
[21:17] <phatmonkey> yes.
[21:17] <phatmonkey> satellite phone? how expensive are they?
[21:17] <jcoxon> pongstats
[21:17] <phatmonkey> or maybe we should back the amateur radio thing
[21:17] <phatmonkey> yes
[21:18] <jcoxon> nova (cambridge) we think we might have found a frequency we could use
[21:18] <jcoxon> though it'll be rather directional
[21:18] <phatmonkey> highaltitudeballoon.org is available
[21:19] <phatmonkey> I can do hosting if that's needed
[21:19] <phatmonkey> hmm
[21:19] <jcoxon> need something uk like
[21:19] <jcoxon> like GBhighaltitudeballoon
[21:19] <phatmonkey> highaltitudeballoon.org.uk ;)
[21:19] <jcoxon> or UKhighaltitudeballoon
[21:20] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:20] <phatmonkey> haballoon.org.uk
[21:20] <jcoxon> perhaps a name for the society first
[21:20] <jcoxon> then the site afterwads
[21:20] <phatmonkey> yeah, I suppose
[21:20] <phatmonkey> ooh
[21:20] <phatmonkey> or even highaltitude.org.uk
[21:21] <robhouse> does anyone know if there is a UK importer / supplier for totex or similar weather balloons???
[21:21] <phatmonkey> I know nothing about societies
[21:21] <phatmonkey> ebay?
[21:21] <jcoxon> i haven't found one yet
[21:22] <jcoxon> ebay
[21:22] <robhouse> me neither
[21:22] <jcoxon> i have got some from contacts in the British Antarctic Survery
[21:22] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:22] <robhouse> most of the ones on ebay appear to be government or military surplus
[21:22] <robhouse> cool
[21:23] <phatmonkey> there must be some way we can communicate with our balloons
[21:23] <phatmonkey> I find it incredible that there doesn't seem to be
[21:24] <robhouse> I'll ask some people I know and see what they're using with rockets.
[21:26] <robhouse> Any idea what sort of restrictions the CAA impose of telemetry from balloons?
[21:27] <jcoxon> well its not really the CAA which impose the restrictions i don't think
[21:27] <jcoxon> from what i understand you can't use any amateur radio equipment
[21:28] <robhouse> ok
[21:29] <robhouse> surely telemetry can be done over 433mhz though?
[21:29] <robhouse> although i'm not certain if the range is sufficient
[21:29] <phatmonkey> satellite phones?
[21:29] <robhouse> probably a bit too expensive
[21:30] <jcoxon> 5ghz
[21:30] <jcoxon> it'll have to be directional
[21:30] <robhouse> yeah, 5ghz is used by 802.11a isn't it?
[21:31] <jcoxon> yup
[21:31] <jcoxon> apparently it can be used if not continous (as in bursts every minute)
[21:31] <jcoxon> not really my department but nova are looking in to it
[21:32] <jcoxon> though it'll be at a much higher power then .11a
[21:32] <robhouse> yeah, that sounds a sensible approach
[21:33] <jcoxon> direction is an issue
[21:34] <jcoxon> so a group, society, project?
[21:35] <jcoxon> UK Amateur Near Space Project
[21:35] <jcoxon> UK ANSP
[21:35] <jcoxon> ???
[21:35] <robhouse> sounds cool
[21:36] <phatmonkey> UK high altitude society?
[21:36] <phatmonkey> or something like that
[21:38] <jcoxon> UK High Altitude Society (UKHAS) "10 miles up and above!"
[21:41] <robhouse> EHAS - European High Altitude Society
[21:41] <jcoxon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/weatherwise/factfiles/popups/img_atmo_atmosphere.html
[21:41] <robhouse> Or HASE - High Altitude Society of Europe
[21:41] <jcoxon> quite interesting
[21:41] <jcoxon> do we want to include europe?
[21:42] <robhouse> I dunno, I was just trying to find a interesting acronym
[21:42] <jcoxon> sticking to the UK saves us from learning about all the different countries laws
[21:42] <robhouse> true
[21:42] <phatmonkey> yeah
[21:42] <phatmonkey> we're all from the uk aren't we?
[21:42] <jcoxon> wasn't criticising!
[21:42] <jcoxon> :-D
[21:42] <robhouse> :D
[21:42] <jcoxon> hehe i've got it
[21:42] <jcoxon> "The 10 mile high club!"
[21:43] <phatmonkey> haha
[21:43] <robhouse> lolthe suspense is killing me....
[21:43] <robhouse> lol
[21:44] <robhouse> (wasn't quick enough there)
[21:44] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:44] <jcoxon> UK High Altitude Club?
[21:44] <jcoxon> UKHAC
[21:45] <jcoxon> UKNSC UK Near Space Club
[21:45] <phatmonkey> hmm
[21:45] <robhouse> possibly - are we looking to make this balloon specific?
[21:45] <phatmonkey> don't think so
[21:45] <robhouse> or balloon orientated?
[21:46] <jcoxon> well if you can get a rocket that high you can definitly join hte club!
[21:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:46] <phatmonkey> well, I don't think we should specify it in the name
[21:46] <phatmonkey> yep!
[21:46] <phatmonkey> not sure about club...
[21:46] <phatmonkey> doesn't sound quite right
[21:46] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:46] <jcoxon> slightly scouts and guides?
[21:46] <robhouse> lol
[21:46] <phatmonkey> yes
[21:46] <phatmonkey> hehe
[21:46] <robhouse> group, association, society, etc
[21:46] <jcoxon> guild!
[21:47] <phatmonkey> :D
[21:47] <jcoxon> union
[21:47] <robhouse> true
[21:47] <jcoxon> i think we should strike
[21:47] <robhouse> hehe
[21:47] <jcoxon> rubbish laws
[21:47] <jcoxon> and poor pensions
[21:47] <jcoxon> for ballonists
[21:48] <jcoxon> UK High Altitude Association (UKHAA)
[21:48] <phatmonkey> Main Entry: club
[21:48] <phatmonkey> Part of Speech: noun 2
[21:48] <phatmonkey> Definition: organization
[21:48] <phatmonkey> Synonyms: alliance, association, brotherhood, bunch, circle, clique, company, crew, faction, fellowship, fraternity, gang, guild, hangout, league, lodge, meeting, mob, order, outfit, ring, set, society, sodality, union
[21:48] <phatmonkey> I still like society somehow
[21:49] <phatmonkey> hmm
[21:49] <robhouse> yeah, it sounds professional, but also open to everyone
[21:49] <jcoxon> i like society too
[21:50] <jcoxon> really its either high altitude or near space
[21:50] <robhouse> yeah
[21:50] <jcoxon> i thnk high altitude is more accessible
[21:50] <robhouse> yeah
[21:50] <jcoxon> most pople don't know where near space is
[21:50] <robhouse> true
[21:50] <robhouse> do we go for UK or GB?
[21:51] <jcoxon> Great Britain High Altitude Society GBHAS
[21:51] <jcoxon> or
[21:51] <jcoxon> United Kindom High Altitude Society UKHAS
[21:51] <robhouse> I'm part of UKRA - the United Kingdom Rocketry Association
[21:51] <jcoxon> or British High Altitude Society BHAS
[21:52] <jcoxon> should we then beL UK High Altitude Ballooning Society?
[21:52] <jcoxon> UKHABS
[21:53] <robhouse> hehe, that sounds like a sister club to Alcoholics Anonymous
[21:54] <robhouse> the acronym does have very few hits in google though
[21:54] <jcoxon> should there be amateur somewhere in it?
[21:55] <robhouse> possibly
[21:55] <robhouse> UKHAABS
[21:55] <jcoxon> but then its getting rather long
[21:55] <phatmonkey> UKHAS?
[21:55] <phatmonkey> short and sweet :D
[21:55] <jcoxon> i like that
[21:56] <jcoxon> so United Kingdom High Altitude Society
[21:56] <robhouse> yeah, sounds good
[21:56] <jcoxon> if people can use other things then balloons then they can join
[21:56] <phatmonkey> yeah
[21:56] <phatmonkey> I would be interested to see some big rockets!
[21:56] <jcoxon> right i have to dash
[21:56] <phatmonkey> we could start launching things into space from balloon platforms
[21:57] <phatmonkey> now /that/ would be good
[21:57] <phatmonkey> oh, ok
[21:57] <jcoxon> but we should talk more about this sometime
[21:57] <jcoxon> but i like UKHAS
[21:57] <phatmonkey> ok
[21:57] <jcoxon> cya
[21:57] <phatmonkey> cya
[21:57] <phatmonkey> ukhas.org is free
[21:58] <robhouse> cool, cya
[21:59] <robhouse> talking of big rockets, here's one of mine; http://www.robhouse.co.uk/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/KV3.jpg
[22:03] <phatmonkey> oh wow!
[22:04] <phatmonkey> what sort of altitudes can you get from that?
[22:04] <robhouse> its about 9 1/2ft tall and just under 6" in diameter.
[22:04] <robhouse> It uses 3 solid rocket motors and is probably capable of between 10,000 to 15,000ft
[22:05] <robhouse> It's not really optimised for altitude
[22:05] <phatmonkey> crikey
[22:05] <phatmonkey> yes
[22:08] <robhouse> It would be interesting to us a balloon as a launch platform for a rocket. solid fuel rocket motors already have oxidiser, so there would be no problems igniting them.
[22:09] <phatmonkey> mmm
[22:09] <phatmonkey> there's little gravity and air resistance up there, might prove interesting
[22:09] <phatmonkey> at least launching a small rocket
[22:09] <phatmonkey> and compare it to a launch from the ground
[22:09] <robhouse> yeah, it would be interesting
[22:18] <phatmonkey> anywho
[22:18] <phatmonkey> night!
[22:18] phatmonkey (n=phatmonk@65.98.2.81.in-addr.arpa) left #highaltitude ("Leaving").
[22:46] <robhouse> <phatmonkey> anywho
[22:46] <robhouse> <phatmonkey> night!
[22:46] <robhouse> * phatmonkey has left #highaltitude ("Leaving")
[22:47] <robhouse> whoops, copy / pasted the wrong window there
[22:52] <robhouse> here's an initial idea i've had for a tethered balloon payload; http://www.robhouse.co.uk/balloon/camcarrier.jpg
[22:53] <robhouse> I should really look at drawing in 3D, but I'm looking at a triangular prism shaped payload.
[22:53] <robhouse> The ends of the payload will be oversized, to stop the camera lense touching the ground on landing.
[22:58] <robhouse> another thought i've been having is programming something in either symbian (c++) or java (j2me) to go on a symbian based smartphone.
[22:59] <robhouse> Potentially an old phone such as a nokia 3650, equipped with a bluetooth GPS receiver could log GPS data, send it via txt message and even take a photograph.
[23:04] <robhouse> right, I should probably get some sleep.
[23:04] <robhouse> cya
[23:04] <jcoxon> hehe
[23:04] <jcoxon> just got back
[23:04] <jcoxon> read your ramblings! :-p
[23:04] <robhouse> lol, I have a habit of doing that
[23:04] <jcoxon> i'm logging it all with zeusbot
[23:05] <robhouse> cool
[23:05] <jcoxon> don't worry won't miss a thing
[23:05] <robhouse> :S
[23:05] <jcoxon> the smart phone idea would certainly reduce the size
[23:06] <robhouse> yeah, i've got an old nokia one around. I might have to give it a go.
[23:07] <robhouse> Hopefully I should get my digital camera before the weekend. I've been designing a frame for it already.
[23:08] <jcoxon> cool
[23:08] <jcoxon> i'm really desperate to get working on pegasus III
[23:08] <robhouse> updated picture here: http://www.robhouse.co.uk/balloon/camcarrier.jpg
[23:08] <robhouse> yeah, I can imagine
[23:09] <jcoxon> they are shipping me the new gps daughterboard as soon as it comes out
[23:09] <jcoxon> thats why there is a delay
[23:09] <robhouse> ooo, that should be good
[23:10] <jcoxon> with gps built in all thats required is to wire up a serial adapter and plug the phone in
[23:10] <jcoxon> really really easy
[23:10] <robhouse> cool
[23:10] <jcoxon> do you have a circuit diagram you're going to follow for the timer chip for the camera?
[23:11] <jcoxon> i just found 2 555 chips
[23:11] <jcoxon> tempted to try and wire one up
[23:11] <robhouse> I was just gonna create a 555 astable timer, i'll have a quick look
[23:12] <robhouse> http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/LM555.html#3
[23:13] <robhouse> I was gonna remove R1, to get a sqaure output e.g. 1 second on, 1 second off
[23:14] <robhouse> R2 with a value of 15k and C1 with a value of 100 seemed to give 1 second on, 1 second off e.g. 1 picture taken every 2 seconds.
[23:14] <robhouse> You'd probably want to experiment with longer times though.
[23:15] <jcoxon> i've got limited parts
[23:15] <jcoxon> though i do have 3x220muF
[23:16] <robhouse> cool
[23:16] <jcoxon> and a variety of resistors
[23:16] <robhouse> I'm gonna take a trip to Maplin on saturday and see what they have in stock.
[23:17] <jcoxon> is the diagram with the chip alive or dead bug :-p
[23:17] <robhouse> lol, i'm not certain
[23:17] <jcoxon> oooo i just found a variable resistor!
[23:18] <robhouse> should be useful
[23:18] <jcoxon> god i'm rubbish at electronics
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[23:19] <robhouse> if you want a long delay between photos, you might want to look for a circuit which uses 2 555 timers or possibly a diode to restrict the flow in one direction.
[23:19] <jcoxon> one step at a time :-D
[23:19] <robhouse> I'm not really any good when it comes to electronics either, but I can wield a soldering iron ok
[23:20] <jcoxon> yeah i can solder - i guess thats half the problem
[23:20] <robhouse> true
[23:21] <robhouse> right, I should really get some sleep. I'll drop you an email tomorrow, if I can find any useful links.
[23:21] <robhouse> cya
[23:22] <jcoxon> cy
[23:22] robhouse (n=rob@cpc2-port4-6-1-cust34.cos2.cable.ntl.com) left irc:
[00:00] --- Fri Mar 31 2006