[00:03] jarod (~jarod@85.93.177.177) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds [00:04] jarod (~jarod@85.93.177.177) joined #highaltitude. [00:20] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@2001:1c03:3e10:3c00:d0c1:61fc:62ad:15c9) left irc: Quit: Leaving [02:11] Laurenceb (~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [02:54] New position from 03BSS24 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS24 [03:19] Axone (~Axone@lfbn-idf1-1-63-56.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.2 - http://znc.in [03:20] Axone (~Axone@lfbn-idf1-1-63-56.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude. [03:55] tweetBot (~nodebot@philcrump.co.uk) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [03:55] tweetBot (~nodebot@philcrump.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [05:14] New position from 03U4B-2 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U4B-2 [05:17] New position from 03ICT4 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICT4 [05:30] New position from 03K6STS-15 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6STS-15 [06:06] New vehicle on the map: 03SP3RAT_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3RAT_chase [06:07] Lahti (~Lahti@dywkqcbb4yjllxj5nl3jt-4.rev.dnainternet.fi) joined #highaltitude. [06:13] Kodar (~Kodar@93-139-145-41.adsl.net.t-com.hr) joined #highaltitude. [06:26] snaked (~snaked@pdpc/supporter/active/snaked) left irc: Quit: Leaving [06:27] New position from 03SP9UOB after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB [06:27] New position from 03SP9UOB-P37 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-P37 [06:31] snaked (~snaked@pdpc/supporter/active/snaked) joined #highaltitude. [06:37] FireFighter (~firefight@2601:44:4200:ab4f:fc04:76ca:38dc:4cfb) joined #highaltitude. [07:12] rubdos (~rubdos@77.109.103.196) joined #highaltitude. [07:20] rubdos (~rubdos@77.109.103.196) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [07:22] rubdos (~rubdos@77.109.103.196) joined #highaltitude. [07:24] New vehicle on the map: 03SP7THR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP7THR [07:29] kerel (kerelmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gqkecskpfywwpeoz) left irc: Quit: killed [07:29] Pit[m] (pit711matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tlqxpmcxwuybogrn) left irc: Quit: killed [07:47] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) joined #highaltitude. [07:56] kerel (kerelmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xmngxgpdcrjurjdh) joined #highaltitude. [08:09] Pit[m] (pit711matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kuoowjczifgjkbrv) joined #highaltitude. [08:12] Kodar (~Kodar@93-139-145-41.adsl.net.t-com.hr) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [08:12] Kodar (~Kodar@93-139-145-41.adsl.net.t-com.hr) joined #highaltitude. [08:21] SQ9GOL (~Peter@ip-178-108.ists.pl) joined #highaltitude. [08:36] New vehicle on the map: 03cheap - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=cheap [08:37] gartt (gart@ip68-14-86-104.ri.ri.cox.net) left #highaltitude. [08:50] c_j_b (~cjb@203.14.156.197) joined #highaltitude. [08:58] c_j_b (~cjb@203.14.156.197) left irc: Read error: Network is unreachable [08:58] c_j_b (~cjb@203.14.156.197) joined #highaltitude. [09:25] chris_99 (uid26561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ybbuonezveftlubh) joined #highaltitude. [09:36] New vehicle on the map: 0319GSN0013_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=19GSN0013_chase [10:13] c_j_b (~cjb@203.14.156.197) left irc: Quit: Konversation terminated! [10:25] New position from 03PS-74 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-74 [11:17] New vehicle on the map: 03SP3RAT_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3RAT_chase [11:17] New vehicle on the map: 03GOL2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GOL2 [11:17] New vehicle on the map: 03GOL3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GOL3 [12:09] New vehicle on the map: 03CHEAPO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHEAPO [12:35] DK6OV (~DK6OV@2a02:560:42e1:9500:3c6c:b700:9572:e9b5) joined #highaltitude. [12:47] DL7AD (~sven@200116b8426c5400647cb0cde066135a.dip.versatel-1u1.de) joined #highaltitude. [13:06] Laurenceb (~laurence@223.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude. [13:06] qyx_ (~qyx@84.245.120.194) joined #highaltitude. [13:06] qyx (~qyx@gw2.krtko.org) left irc: Read error: No route to host [13:10] qyx_ (~qyx@84.245.120.194) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [13:11] qyx_ (~qyx@gw2.krtko.org) joined #highaltitude. [13:12] DK6OV (DK6OV@2a02:560:42e1:9500:3c6c:b700:9572:e9b5) left #highaltitude ("Leaving"). [13:12] Guest80750 (~sam@ns3047089.ip-5-135-160.eu) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [13:12] sam (~sam@2001:41d0:8:e3bf::1) joined #highaltitude. [13:19] Nick change: qyx_ -> 5EXAACQ57 [13:20] Nick change: sam -> Guest61311 [14:08] fl_0 (~fl_0@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Quit: STRG + Q [14:14] fl_0 (~fl_0@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude. [14:21] OLHZN (~Tory@cpe-66-66-13-40.rochester.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude. [14:21] fl_0 (~fl_0@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [14:21] fl__0 (~fl_0@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude. [14:22] Nick change: fl__0 -> fl_0 [14:22] fl_0 (~fl_0@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Client Quit [14:23] fl_0 (~fl_0@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude. [14:25] Viproz__ (~Viproz@unaffiliated/viproz) joined #highaltitude. [14:29] Viproz_ (~Viproz@unaffiliated/viproz) joined #highaltitude. [14:32] Viproz__ (~Viproz@unaffiliated/viproz) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [14:45] rubdos (~rubdos@77.109.103.196) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [14:46] rubdos (~rubdos@77.109.103.196) joined #highaltitude. [14:47] OLHZN (~Tory@cpe-66-66-13-40.rochester.res.rr.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [15:04] rubdos (~rubdos@77.109.103.196) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [15:05] rubdos (~rubdos@77.109.103.196) joined #highaltitude. [15:08] New position from 03KO4ACL-12 after 0316 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KO4ACL-12 [15:18] New position from 03KO4ACL-11 after 0316 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KO4ACL-11 [15:18] New position from 03W5KUB-16 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5KUB-16 [15:20] OLHZN (~Tory@cpe-66-66-13-40.rochester.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:22] 5EXAACQ57 (~qyx@gw2.krtko.org) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [15:23] New vehicle on the map: 03LAST_HE - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LAST_HE [15:26] qyx (~qyx@gw2.krtko.org) joined #highaltitude. [15:43] DL3KB (50d1dbf3@80.209.219.243) joined #highaltitude. [15:50] OLHZN (~Tory@cpe-66-66-13-40.rochester.res.rr.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [16:01] New vehicle on the map: 0319GSN006 GALAXY S10 ROBERT_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=19GSN006%20GALAXY%20S10%20ROBERT_chase [16:04] Kodar (~Kodar@93-139-145-41.adsl.net.t-com.hr) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [16:07] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@2001:1c03:3e10:3c00:d0c1:61fc:62ad:15c9) joined #highaltitude. [16:10] snakedGT (~snaked@pdpc/supporter/active/snaked) joined #highaltitude. [16:10] snaked (~snaked@pdpc/supporter/active/snaked) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [16:30] DL3KB (50d1dbf3@80.209.219.243) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [16:31] New vehicle on the map: 03DK0LG - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0LG [17:05] chris_99 (uid26561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ybbuonezveftlubh) left irc: [18:04] GyroW (~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [18:06] GyroW (~GyroW@d54c03e98.access.telenet.be) joined #highaltitude. [18:06] GyroW (~GyroW@d54c03e98.access.telenet.be) left irc: Changing host [18:06] GyroW (~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) joined #highaltitude. [18:21] chris_99 (uid26561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjbaoiqaohzojsyr) joined #highaltitude. [18:23] Hi, has anyone ever seen a survey type paper on different accelerometer and gyros used in IMUs, covering fancy ones like RLG, Hemispherical resonator, etc. i'm curious how they all compare [18:28] New position from 03U4B-1 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U4B-1 [18:57] Lahti (~Lahti@dywkqcbb4yjllxj5nl3jt-4.rev.dnainternet.fi) left irc: Quit: Lähdössä [19:00] pe2bz_ (~pe2bz@099-114-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl) joined #highaltitude. [19:02] PE2BZ (~pe2bz@099-114-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [19:13] FireFighter (~firefight@2601:44:4200:ab4f:fc04:76ca:38dc:4cfb) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [19:13] Nick change: snakedGT -> snaked [19:36] OLHZN (~Tory@cpe-66-66-13-40.rochester.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude. [19:46] OLHZN (~Tory@cpe-66-66-13-40.rochester.res.rr.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [20:11] mclane_ (~Thunderbi@p5B2E1B9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: mclane_ [20:16] chris_99: I skipped all of those in my surveys of the field as they have too many zeros in the price. [20:17] you can get some of them cheap on fleabay, like RLGs however im betting not a Hemispherical resonator, as i haven't found them [20:19] i saw this today though - https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/automotive-sensors/new-gyroscope-design-will-help-autonomous-cars-robots-map-world a mini version afaik [20:23] Interesting. [20:23] Action: SpeedEvil was recently sad when his ebay search fired. [20:23] Found a listing appearing to list a sterling engine from a ecogen baxi. [20:23] Googling got me the specs (560C in, 100C out, 5kW in, 1kWe out, even the driver PCB [20:24] Alas, it was just the housing. [20:24] Ebay is fun. [20:24] ecogen baxi.? google is showing me a boiler [20:25] yes [20:25] It was a micro-CHP boiler with a sterling engine in. [20:25] It was unpopular and really expensive. [20:25] But I wanted to play with a sterling engine, and that's one of the only ones that came to market on a consumer level. [20:26] ah gotcha, i'm confused. so my mechanical knowledge is v. poor, why would you need something like that in a boil, if you're heating water? [20:26] *in a boiler [20:28] oh it generates electricity [20:28] neat [20:28] If you need heat anyway, it's free electricity [20:28] yeah [20:28] sounds intriguing [20:28] Viproz__ (~Viproz@unaffiliated/viproz) joined #highaltitude. [20:28] It was about 2K IIRC, and difficult to fit due to weight and other things. [20:29] ahh [20:29] what where you gonna use the engine for [20:29] Solar-PV-thermal-store [20:29] And yes, it's stupid. [20:29] But solar-PV is cheap. [20:30] And thermal store is cheap, batteries ain't. [20:30] sorry i don't understand, you mean using the sun's heat to drive the engine? [20:31] Solar photovoltaic run into a resistive dump to heat a thermal store, to later generate electricity rather than put it in a battery. [20:31] Viproz_ (~Viproz@unaffiliated/viproz) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [20:32] can't you skip the PV, to generate heat directly? [20:32] like those solar pipe heating things i mean [20:32] on roofs [20:32] Thermal capture is actually more expensive - by a lot - compared to cheap solar panels. [20:32] oh [20:32] did not know that [20:33] i kind of want one of those hand warmer stirling engines [20:33] as a desk toy [20:34] er, warmed by hands even [20:34] https://www.bimblesolar.com/solar/solar-pallets For example, has 8.1kW for 2700 quid. [20:34] cool [20:35] that's cheaper than i thought they'd be, that's the peak power output then? [20:35] yes [20:36] efficiency 16.5 % [20:36] Also, on the topic of gyros/accels, you can get a tenfold improvement in some cases with MEMS ones if you use 100 of them. [20:36] aren't some up to 45% or something [20:36] (which is admittedly very silly) [20:36] PE0SAT (~ineo@juno.vgnet.nl) left irc: Quit: leaving [20:36] haha that's interesting though [20:36] that's only for lenses/mirrored panels. Typical 'premium' is only 21% or so [20:37] ah [20:37] does that require some very fancy algorithms re. the MEMS [20:37] PE0SAT (~ineo@juno.vgnet.nl) joined #highaltitude. [20:38] Just average all the outputs. [20:38] oh, i didn't realise you could do that [20:38] for that kind of thing [20:38] and get an improvement like that [20:38] You naively improve it by 1/sqrt(n). [20:38] For uncorrelated noise. [20:39] interesting, what's the 1/sqrt(n) from? not heard about that before [20:40] for electrical S/N improvement I know the explanation, but can't really prove it in general [20:40] Statistics. [20:41] Take a constant, add a random number to that, and if you average out enough of the uncorrelated random numbers, you get close to just the constant. [20:41] I also do not remember the proper mathematical term. [20:43] if you add two random/uncorrelated signals, the energy of the resulting sum, is the sum of the energy of the input signals, and energy generally scales with the square [20:44] nevermind, I can't really explain it [20:48] i'm just looking @ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27879855 they have 4 gyros on a chip by the looks of it, and are using a kallman filter to create a single output [20:49] the maths for that looks scary, but would that be better than averaging, or..? [20:53] I'm gonna say no. [20:53] If you look, you find the performance is twice (half the noise) with the averaging, as the raw bias corrected number [20:53] Which is 1/sqrt(4) [20:54] For non-coplanar gyros, yes, you need kalman or something more complex often when there may be significant correlations between inputs [20:54] Significnat unknown. [20:55] interesting, cheers [20:55] as far as I understand, indeed a Kalman filter cannot magically get better than averaging, the trick is that it will adjust itself to weigh the different inputs based on their "quality" [20:58] neat, how does it know the quality of one is better than the other? (maybe there's no simple explaination for that though) [21:03] I can't really explain that, not sure if I fully understand it myself to be honest :) [21:04] no worries, the idea of weighting the different inputs to improve the output, sounds cool though [21:05] if you have fixed weights, I think it's called a Wien filter [21:05] aha [21:06] sorry "Wiener filter" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalized_Wiener_filter [21:06] cheers , i found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_filter also [21:06] the one you found is much better yes [21:11] Viproz__ (~Viproz@unaffiliated/viproz) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [21:11] it could be that you combine two signals, where one signal is a better estimate at low frequencies, and the other is a better estimate at high frequencies, so the weight can be frequency dependent as well [21:12] oh, that's very cool, and with the kalman filter, you don't have to apply other things like FFT for it to deduce that? [21:12] and, as I understand, the kalman filter can estimate the reliability of the signals vs frequency and automatically adjust the weights [21:22] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) left irc: Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com [21:37] http://bilgin.esme.org/BitsAndBytes/KalmanFilterForDummies looks quite nice, i'm gonna look at its references too [21:39] I think a lot of the texts on kalman filters focus too much on the maths and too little on what the whole purpose is, that one looks nice [21:49] New vehicle on the map: 03BB07 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BB07 [22:12] snaked (~snaked@pdpc/supporter/active/snaked) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [22:12] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage) left irc: Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in [22:14] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage) joined #highaltitude. [22:17] snaked (~snaked@pdpc/supporter/active/snaked) joined #highaltitude. [22:25] SQ9GOL (~Peter@ip-178-108.ists.pl) left irc: Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) [22:44] chris_99 (uid26561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjbaoiqaohzojsyr) left irc: [00:00] --- Fri Apr 3 2020