[00:25] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.102.175.131) left #highaltitude. [00:25] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.102.175.131) joined #highaltitude. [00:46] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude. [00:46] New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11 [00:50] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [00:51] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [00:55] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) joined #highaltitude. [00:59] DL7AD1 (~sven@p4FD41779.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude. [01:01] DL7AD (~sven@p4FD41598.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [01:26] New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA1 [01:43] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-179-191-73.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [01:51] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [01:54] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) joined #highaltitude. [02:02] Ojo_2 (pieter@2601:c6:c004:70c1:2832:4cbb:88d8:6c23) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [02:31] F6AIU (51333b8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.51.59.141) joined #highaltitude. [02:41] heathkid (~heathkid@unaffiliated/heathkid) joined #highaltitude. [02:43] F6AIU (51333b8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.51.59.141) left irc: Quit: Page closed [02:50] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [02:54] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: K-Lined [02:55] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) joined #highaltitude. [03:47] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [03:55] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) joined #highaltitude. [04:48] daey_ (~Flutterba@unaffiliated/day) joined #highaltitude. [04:52] daey (~Flutterba@unaffiliated/day) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [04:52] Nick change: daey_ -> daey [05:36] es5nhc (~tarmo@57-58-166-83.dyn.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude. [05:37] New position from 03S-18 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-18 [05:43] jcoxon (~jcoxon@36.251.198.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude. [05:52] gtfhercules (~gtfhercul@c-24-5-194-136.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving [05:54] jcoxon (~jcoxon@36.251.198.146.dyn.plus.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving [06:28] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) joined #highaltitude. [06:29] Bencls (~Bencls___@host31-51-57-183.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [06:34] New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11 [06:35] Bencls (~Bencls___@host31-51-57-183.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [06:48] SA6BSS-Mike (~SA6BSS-Mi@217-208-25-231-no166.bredband.skanova.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [06:53] SA6BSS-Mike (~SA6BSS-Mi@217-208-25-231-no166.bredband.skanova.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:11] LeoBodnar (~LeoBodnar@host86-132-24-144.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:11] LeoBodnar (~LeoBodnar@host86-132-24-144.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [07:11] LeoBodnar (~LeoBodnar@host86-132-24-144.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:36] gm all [07:37] !payload K6RPT-11 [07:37] 03pb0ahx: Can't find a flight doc matching your query [07:38] just aprs [07:38] ok tnx info Mike [07:39] last week i had one that did also rtty above europa [07:49] garymortimer (29a26206@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.162.98.6) joined #highaltitude. [07:50] trickv (~trickv@hg.vanstaveren.us) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds [07:50] trickv (~trickv@hg.vanstaveren.us) joined #highaltitude. [07:54] New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6 [08:24] New position from 03HIRFW-5 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-5 [08:32] https://ssdv.habhub.org/1STBEL [08:32] weird :) [08:33] nice tour of the neighbourhood [08:33] just the bit where it switches to a railway [08:35] I *think* it's still in the car. which is a worry [08:37] there's a weird quality to the images. like they're old polaroids [08:37] might still have the little cover still on the camera if it's a picam [08:39] image 7... Worrying that the kids cars and tricicle are parked better than the real cars in the street [08:53] mDjtI_ (~mDjtI@cpc78041-stav21-2-0-cust252.17-3.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude. [08:53] mDjtI (~mDjtI@cpc78041-stav21-2-0-cust252.17-3.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds [09:04] andycamb (~Thunderbi@2001:630:212:800:3939:d3a:fbd6:f7fc) joined #highaltitude. [09:31] New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase [09:47] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [09:54] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) joined #highaltitude. [09:57] SushiKenBrown (~quassel@cmr-208-124-174-194.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude. [09:59] SushiKenBrown_ (~quassel@cmr-208-124-174-194.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [10:06] New vehicle on the map: 03BARC4 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC4 [10:21] !DIAL BARC4 [10:21] Last message repeated 1 time(s). [10:21] 03Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: Latest dials for 03BARC4 10(1256): none [10:22] oh, it's up [10:23] Not going to get wet either! [10:24] Well they've put in a lot of gas to stop it going too far east [10:25] wonder if its on .45 or .65 ?? [10:25] OK [10:25] Its got its eye on the Humber [10:27] bugzc_ (~1@unaffiliated/bugzc) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [10:30] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-179-191-73.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [10:33] dial for BARC is 434.450.8 [10:33] pb0ahx: what i have too [10:34] red red red lines [10:36] green [10:42] pb0ahx: what balloon was that? [10:42] BARC-4 [10:42] regarding the 09.39 [10:42] [09:39:35] last week i had one that did also rtty above europa [10:43] i dont know any more [10:43] als a usa ballon [10:44] ok, better be prepared when they show then :) was it in the regular span 434 - 434.7 ? [10:45] no was on 2mtr 144.180 or someting [10:45] ahh, good to know!! [10:47] sorry for my writing in English is not so good here [10:47] as I say I write it [10:48] hihihihi [10:49] :) I get what you say anyway so no problem :) [10:49] ok tnx [10:49] not many writers for BARC4 mmmmm [10:50] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [10:50] its a workday for most [10:52] seeing signals, but bloody crashy USB sound card. So no decodes today [10:53] the signaal is good here stable abt S8 [10:53] been hearing it a while now but red lines [10:54] i using on this moment the icom 910H and 2x19 ele yagi on 23 mtr agl [10:55] all vertical [10:55] happysat (~katpoep@s55970b39.adsl.online.nl) joined #highaltitude. [10:55] TIBS01 (~tibs01@5751bf7a.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude. [10:57] Since this channel is basically the collection of the smartest people I know [10:57] I need someone to either confirm my assumptions, or tell me I'm a f*cking moron [10:58] Have people seen the thing going around social media about if you had a Jet Plane on a conveyor belt the length of a runway - with the conveyor going in the opposite direction of the plane - would it ever take off? [10:58] garymortimer (29a26206@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.162.98.6) left irc: Quit: Page closed [10:59] i must now writing FUNCUBE-1 i am back later [11:01] g8fjg (6d9a9286@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.154.146.134) joined #highaltitude. [11:02] mythbusters did that one didn't they [11:02] New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11 [11:02] but it was yet another that the basic physics tells you it's a waster of time [11:02] garymortimer (29a26206@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.162.98.6) joined #highaltitude. [11:02] (blowing your own sail was another one) [11:03] though i reaall reading/seeing that some jets have vents on the leading edges to force airflow at low speeds (poss vtol?) [11:03] shirley its the speed of air over the wings that counts (regardless of how that is generated) [11:03] mfa298: that's my interpretation [11:04] it's the forward velocity of the plane that generates lift, via the wings [11:04] I've seen it ...cant see how it could take off ,,no forward motion to create lift,,,,but then again rockets can't work in space,,no oxygen :-) [11:04] so if the conveyor counteracts all forward motion perfectly (practically this is impossible) there is no lift generated [11:04] if a prop plane could create enough draught, that could possibly create lift? How m,uch is the issue [11:04] so you could get it to take off without moving with a big fan [11:04] mfa298: or the wind [11:04] as I witnessed the other day [11:05] light aircraft taking over in a very large headwind [11:05] basically just climbed vertically [11:05] taking off* [11:05] seen those planes after the hurricane [11:05] or in gales, when they are tied down on the hardstanding. They get a bit, frisky [11:08] Not the conveyor one again :/ [11:10] It's getting heated with a colleague now [11:10] we've both been told to shut up and do some work [11:10] makes bugger-all difference if he doesn't agree hit him with a hammer [11:10] so my assumption that it won't take off is correct? [11:10] er .... [11:11] There'll be some effect due to friction in the wheels [11:11] if we could make a perfect lossless system of testing this [11:11] tyre losses etc [11:12] i am back [11:12] the conveyor might produce some air motion but trivial amounts [11:12] I'm just sat here slowly banging my head against the wall. I have not taken off yet [11:13] yeah, and without the wings being just above the conveyor, that'll mae next to no difference [11:13] I'm getting told "The wheels don't matter, it's not about that - planes aren't driven by their wheels" [11:14] yeah [11:14] quite [11:14] o god... this must be what talking to a Trump or Brexit supporter is like [11:14] it's the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the wings that lift it [11:15] if you where going down the runway at 100mph and the wind had matched your speed and direction, it ain't taking off either [11:15] just wait until you've tried talking to someone about the faked moon landing [11:15] Not sure many jet planes can take off at 100mph wind speed anyway :p [11:16] ah yes, missed the jet part [11:16] :) [11:16] a very small jet :) [11:17] think any aircraft would struggle :P [11:17] helis are aircraft [11:17] but yes - it's the difference in veloctiy between aircraft and wind that generates lift (due to aforementioned idfference in P above and below the wing) [11:17] daveake: I wouldn't want to attempt to take off in a heli in 100 mph wind... [11:17] hah [11:17] that conveyor belt is how they really launched the module back from the moon [11:17] not so much a take off, as a take sideways into a tree [11:17] ha [11:18] thats why they point aircraft carriers into the wind, more lift, fewer planes getting run over [11:18] and why runways work both ways, and many airports have multiple runways - to better match a headwind [11:18] Ojo (pieter@2601:c6:c004:70c1:ccae:e4ff:4c6d:9e3) joined #highaltitude. [11:18] cool, didn't know that. makes sense [11:18] old airports tend to have crossed runways [11:18] and it isn't just so you can have ammusing collusions! [11:18] or a A shape [11:18] ive taken off from some that are very short but really wide [11:19] Just look at all the old RAF airfields in the UK and you will see that. even Heathrow if you look [11:19] my instructor is off my christmas card list now [11:20] he decided to subject me to an unplanned engine failure test drill on SAturday.. [11:20] change your underware after? [11:20] sure it was unplanned? [11:21] he might have just said that to calm you down :) [11:21] lol - yes - he yanked the throttle closed [11:21] "Your engine has failed, what do you do?" [11:21] g8fjg: very nearly [11:22] "Use the rocket engine I've built that I strapped to the wing?" [11:22] EFATO FTW [11:22] AndyEsser: good at spotting hidden fences in corn fields? [11:22] thankfully most fields around here are divided by hedges, not fences - so easy to spot a big enough field :P [11:23] garymortimer: ? [11:23] engine failure after takeoff [11:23] ah - haven't tested those yet [11:23] this was an engine failure during flight [11:24] I'm only 5 hours in - chatting to another pilot when waiting for my instructor, he was surprised I was already doing circuits [11:25] poof [11:25] Thats very good, its all good fun! [11:26] It's awesome fun [11:26] I love being up there [11:27] I have at least 2 hours booked every weekend in November, most weekends are 4 hours booked [11:27] BARC4 team mni tnx for nice flight [11:27] as long as the weather behaves - it's going to be awesome :) [11:27] It is, my partner in crime down here, Vic has a small aircraft and runway at his house so any excuse. [11:27] nice [11:28] would love to own my own aircraft someday [11:28] I have one now. but it's kinda small [11:28] geoffw (56ba7483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.186.116.131) joined #highaltitude. [11:28] !flights [11:28] 03geoffw: Current flights: 03Barc 10(1256), 03Dixon 10(8f40), 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5) [11:29] !dial barc [11:29] 03geoffw: Can't find a flight doc matching your query [11:29] !dials barc [11:29] heading for the humber [11:29] 434.450.8 [11:29] bloody expensive hobby here. apparently in the states it is much cheaper [11:29] yeah I've heard that [11:29] gonzo_: yea - someone suggested going to the states for 2 weeks and just doing a solid 30 hours [11:29] lots of little airfoelds [11:30] cheap fuel I guess [11:30] go for a long hobby [11:30] holiday [11:30] both [11:30] but I think I'd feel like I was cheating on my instructor :P [11:30] Ta pb [11:30] bring him with you [11:30] maybe someone there does a crash course? [11:30] bad choice of name... [11:30] oh wait ... [11:30] more people use light ac as a form of transport [11:30] here it is only hobby [11:31] my instructor has talked about me doing some work for the flight school (some sort of webapp thing) and hinted it about 20 hours worth of lessons [11:31] which would be good [11:31] the uk isn't big enough to need it for transport [11:31] they have the space/distance/lack of eu pettyness [11:31] my old landlord did that. went for a hol to us to get an faa licennce [11:34] I bet BARC are willing that payload to come down quicker [11:35] he told me that lots of unmanned airstrips have the runway lights triggered off the radio. You just key the tower freq a few times and the lights come on. Then go into the clubhouse and drop your money in the box, and make a cuppa whilst you await yoru taxi to wherever you are heading [11:35] sounds about right [11:35] sounds very civilised. [11:36] very not US [11:36] probably there is more trust out in the sticks [11:36] (and more guns) [11:36] i am away laterssssssssssssss [11:42] there is a three runway airfield just West of BARC now [11:42] Sandtoft [11:43] http://www.sandtoft-airfield.com/ [11:46] That payload seems quite keen on the island http://www.rspb.org.uk/discoverandenjoynature/seenature/reserves/guide/r/readsisland/ [11:47] no pubs on there then? [11:47] Seems not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read%27s_Island [11:48] When I tried for a wet landing, I missed [11:48] Maybe I should have flown this instead [11:48] if the tide is out, there are some huge mud flats there [11:49] it could be a slodge landing [11:49] splodge [11:49] Now its slowing down. Hopefully it will jump the water! I don't know this part of the world at all. Been over the bridge just once when about 10 (so obviously just recently) [11:49] turning left longer land track [11:50] when I was a student, we would go out to Brough and play in the mud. It was a hose off job before anyone was alowed back in the car to go back [11:55] geoffw (56ba7483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.186.116.131) left irc: Quit: Page closed [11:56] powerlines now! [12:00] Gosh those lines will be a thing currently! [12:01] fab tracking from UPU [12:01] Nick change: mattbrej1a -> mattbrejza [12:02] looks like they mau have just fallen short [12:03] Tracked very nearly to the ground [12:04] 47m from so far a way thats amazing must be jolly flat [12:04] LoS from my house to the coast [12:04] the ground must be 15 or so [12:04] g8fjg (6d9a9286@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.154.146.134) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [12:11] Nick change: sumie-dh_ -> sumie-dh [12:13] petrinm (niemelp1@gateway/shell/tkk.fi/x-hguarulrkzkgrvyn) joined #highaltitude. [12:20] New vehicle on the map: 03K6RPT-7 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-7 [12:26] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Quit: STRG + Q [12:32] assuming that it was the chase team got the last packet after landing, there is still 100ft or so of height to account for [12:32] In real units: 100 ft = 30 m [12:32] oh sod off sibot [12:33] :P [12:33] so wonder how well synced the map/image is to the lat/lon [12:35] does sibot take offence with FL100 then..? :) [12:35] apparently not [12:37] 100ft would be FL1 [12:37] In real units: 100 ft = 30 m [12:37] it has not been programmed for offence. yet [12:39] angry corrections next? [12:40] "SIbit: Stop using Imperial you muppets" [12:40] s/SIbit/SIbot [12:41] I love that imperial units are defined in metric [12:41] Bt very standard aviation units [12:42] did it not realise from the context I had to make the concious decision to convert to imperial, just to be contrary [12:43] garymortimer (29a26206@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.162.98.6) left irc: Quit: Page closed [12:54] MoALTz (~no@78-10-223-145.static.ip.netia.com.pl) joined #highaltitude. [13:06] kc2uez (~SKA0ut@static-74-42-252-20.br1.glvv.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [13:07] While we are talking conundrums about conveyor belts, I have to say AndyEsser that I feel unable to confirm your assumption stated circa [11:57] :) [13:08] as stated [13:15] "Jet Plane on a conveyor belt the length of a runway" [13:15] would you not need one just as long as the wheelbase of the plane? [13:16] ChrisMunich (5b167087@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.22.112.135) joined #highaltitude. [13:16] Hi [13:16] though I expect that adding logic to this argument is not in the spirit of it [13:18] A jet plane doesn't care if it's on a conveyer belt. [13:18] It's pushing against the air, not against the ground. [13:18] Would anyone please be so kind and tell me what the green and blue circle mean when you watch a balloon with the tracking tool. Thanks :-) [13:18] if the req is that the plane stays static on the ground, then just put the brakes on and rev up [13:19] (which is sort of what all planes do before take off) [13:19] (testing temps and pressures, not actualy as part of the take off itself) [13:19] ChrisMunich, The Blue circle is zero degree horizon, whilst Green is five degree horizon [13:19] beat me to it [13:20] you should get a signal between the two [13:20] unless you are like me and live in a valley, so i only tend to get sigs when i get to the green line [13:20] kc2uez (~SKA0ut@static-74-42-252-20.br1.glvv.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #highaltitude. [13:21] omg i missed the discussion about a plane on a runway? [13:22] Geoff-G8DHE-Lap. Thank you very much! [13:24] not sure you missed much [13:24] Exit [13:24] everyone agrees the plane takes off, right? [13:24] ChrisMunich (5b167087@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.22.112.135) left irc: [13:26] and some misunderstandings of how wings generate lift? [13:26] magic fairy dust [13:27] do you learn how wings generate lift as part of pilot training? [13:27] it's like about 50% of the mythbusters stuff. Easilly answerable with little thought. But prob fun to try and makes good TV for 80% of the popluation (who who are not wound up by the nee dto test it) [13:27] adamgreig: only the GCSE "low pressure over wing, high pressure under wing - thus lift" [13:28] yea gonzo_, though I think the problem is people who are convinced of something are often not swayed by the mythbusters experiment (or indeed by anything at all) [13:28] "but they didn't use a real conveyor belt!" "but it didn't match the wheel speed of the plane, just the takeoff speed!" "but the plane took off, so the experiment must be wrong!" [13:28] no true plane, indeed [13:29] have started rewatching some of them and I'm usually fast forwardinmg to the bit where they state the obvious, but doing so as if it was a shock to them [13:29] hah [13:29] i wish more people would get taught the redirecting-lots-of-air approach to lift instead of this mysterious pressure thing [13:29] but at least it's not "well the air on top has to go faster to cover the same distance" [13:30] I mentioned the 'blowing your own sail' one. They put a sail and a fan on a skateboard [13:30] fun [13:30] how about downwind sailing faster than the wind? [13:30] it did work. But that was just the air that didn;t catch the sail. So they proved it [13:31] wouldn't it go backwards? [13:31] but failed to show that without the sail on, it would have gone a damn sight faster [13:31] no [13:31] problem is - as we discussed earlier - there's a difference between a pure thought experiment with zero loses [13:31] you can sail downwind faster than the wind [13:31] and actually doing it practically [13:31] the plane takes off in both the pure thought experiment and in real life, though [13:32] (a more important question, is it damn sight, or damn site ??) [13:32] for versions of real life that are compatible with a thought experiment and don't involve the conveyor quickly going to infinite velocity [13:32] adamgreig: you're going to have to explain that to me then [13:32] think the latter [13:32] I failed to consider the wheels are not actually being driven at first [13:32] becuase I'd have said it wouldn't take off [13:32] sometimes it's easier to imagine a plane on skis [13:33] it just has to thrust for longer to overcome the negative motion of the conveyer [13:33] the engines suck the plane forward [13:33] depends on the conveyor set-up exactly, sometimes it's "always moving backwards at takeoff velocity" and other times it's "moves backwards at the plane's forward velocity" [13:33] the plane would move forward on the conveyer. But the wheels would spin faster than if on a static runway [13:33] or other, less interesting, setups [13:33] yes the wheels spin very fast [13:33] I also interpret it as it moves as fast as the forward velocity - to make relative velocity zero [13:34] also, never really thought of jets as sucking a plane forward... [13:34] if you have bad wheel bearings you need more thrust to compensate, but in real life that's barely noticable [13:34] so the conveyer would have to be accelerating so that wheel friction equalled the engine power [13:34] the problem with that AndyEsser is the plane still moves forward [13:34] so the conveyor quickly reaches either infinite velocity or [13:34] explodes [13:34] as gonzo_ suggests, goes so fast the friction in the wheels is able to drag the plane back [13:34] at which point the wheels explode [13:35] for any practical conveyor belt velocity the plane takes off, for anything else you can't build it, so.. [13:35] and makes really good tv [13:35] Yes - I concede if we were to actually build it - it would take off [13:35] the only thought experiments where it doesn't are ones where it quickly goes to a limiting case that explodes or can't happen [13:35] it's different for a car, which is kinda what I was thinking of at first [13:36] if you think of the jets as sucking the plane forward, it's clear that the wheels basically don't matter beyond adding some friction [13:36] what on earth is the topic of discussion? [13:36] or the jets as pushign the plane forward by blowing air out the back, which is easier [13:36] Laurenceb_: lol, a plane on a runway [13:36] conveyor belt airport? [13:36] or the tyres explode and the stantions grab the conveyer that was moving at uber speed, be dragged backwards and also explode [13:36] i was disappointed to miss it earlier [13:36] gonzo_: I think the conveyor's own bearings explode too [13:36] and "a damn sight" [13:37] everything's exploding. we need to try this [13:37] sounds a bit fun [13:37] wouldn't want to be in the plane [13:38] AndyEsser: better to think of wings as generating lift by diverting lots of air downwards (due to angle of attack) and then conservation of momentum means the plane is pushed upwards [13:38] otherwise you will really struggle to explain why planes can fly upside down [13:38] adamgreig: but that still requires forward velocity relative to the air, surely? [13:39] the pull push sounds more interesting. Wouldn't the pure air mass movement be a pull component. And the extra thrust from the heating of that air, be a push? [13:39] gonzo_: jet engines suck a lot of air in from the front and blow it out the back, beyond the air being drawn in for combustion [13:39] sucking in gets you very very little net thrust [13:39] blowing out gets a lot of thrust [13:39] there's a fun experiment you can do with a straw to demonstrate this [13:40] when flying upsiide down, isn't the angle of attack of the wing such that there is still lift against gravioty? [13:40] when sucking, air comes in from all directions, so a _lot_ of the momentum is sideways [13:40] when blowing, almost all the momentum is in the direction of thrust, so you get a lot more momentum in the direction you want [13:40] not a symmetric arrangement [13:40] far point [13:40] that makes sense [13:40] neat [13:40] fair [13:40] AndyEsser: yes you still need forward air velocity to not stall the wings [13:40] when flying upside down you still need to point upwards to get upwards lift [13:41] but if you believe the wing's shape generates lift, you'd expect flying upside down but pointing up to generate "downwards" lift [13:41] (ie if you believe that the assymetric shape generates high pressure below and low pressure above) [13:41] adamgreig: no no - I appreciate it's not a case of the GCSE style high/low pressure thing [13:41] I thought it as the angle of the wing [13:41] yea exactly [13:41] well it does, thats why coefficient of lift versus angle of attack doesnt intercept the origin [13:41] I figured out that was wrong due to exactly what you say - planes flying upside down [13:42] for non trivial "airfoils" anyway [13:42] angle of attack is the primary factor? [13:42] the angle of the wing against the air causes lots of mass (and therefore momentum) of air to be diverted downwards [13:42] I'd assume it's the shape and the angle [13:42] not saying the shape isn't very important [13:43] but it's a common belief that the shape is entirely responsible for generating high/low pressure regions that lead to lift [13:43] but upside down with a silly angle, will give lift, but not efficient [13:43] but you can fly with rectangular wings that aren't aerofoils at all [13:43] see also paper planes [13:43] I really want to make an RC plane now [13:43] :) [13:43] fsphil: want a rocket for it? [13:43] !!!! [13:43] yes we must do this [13:44] rocket launched, return to base [13:44] I'm folding paper, and someone across the office is going to cop it [13:44] once I'm finally build, and then finish, testing with my rocket engine, we can strap it to a wing and fly it ;) [13:44] one thing at a time [13:44] rockoon and return to base seems like its just making your lift too hard [13:44] hehe [13:44] nice slip [13:45] no -oon involved [13:45] just rocket launched from the ground [13:45] New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11 [13:45] I knew someone who was keen on paper planes with rocket assists [13:45] lol [13:45] turns out they're not stable most of the time lol [13:46] that just seems a bad combination [13:46] making a plane out of fuel [13:46] fsphil: helps with the mass issue [13:47] yeah. a solid rocket that was mostly just fuel would be cool [13:47] actually thats a good idea [13:47] thats what the Klima things were designed for [13:47] bbl [13:47] just something at the bottom to direct thrust [13:47] fsphil: Sprint. :) [13:47] https://agg.io/u/rocketplane.jpg [13:48] Something special about a rocket that in 5 seconds glows white hot due to aerodynamic friction. [13:49] yikes [13:49] 1.5 km > 30km took 15 seconds [13:50] however, a sprint class rocket may require CAA permission to launch [13:50] 'oh - that must be a typo, they can't actually mean giganewton seconds' [13:51] 'approved' [13:51] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvZGaMt7UgQ [13:51] they should have called this phoenix [13:51] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude. [13:51] you're not wrong about it getting white hot [13:51] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-179-191-73.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [13:53] a caseless solid fuel rocket would be pretty white hot eventually, without the vfriction [13:55] not sure it would powerful enough anyway. I think the real ones burn along their entire length inside, outwards. more surface area [13:55] it depends on rate [13:56] most solids burn radially but a few burn axially for lower thrusts for longer times [13:58] radially. that's the word [14:03] could be fun making a fuel that is tough enough to contain it's own force [14:04] and to burn unifiormilly enough for it to not waste a good % of energy at the end [14:06] the thin edges are going to break apart pretty randomly [14:11] i've failed misterably even getting a propellant to mould. grinding black powder to dust and trying to reform it, abit of a failure [14:12] google richard nakka [14:12] for all your DIY solid fuel needs [14:13] think commercial BP has a lot of coatings on the grains [14:16] yeah - this is sugar(of some sort) + nitrate melt [14:20] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [14:21] I was trying packing agents at random, with no info to go on. So not a great start! [14:22] how are you still alive? [14:22] I'm just not very good at dying [14:22] lol [14:22] lol [14:23] rocket making was one eve's experiments, with whatever was to hand, including beer [14:23] conclusion: 'bugger this, it's actuallyu cheaper to by commercial motors, than waste all my BP on this'. And pass me anothert beer [14:32] Bencls (~Bencls___@host31-51-57-183.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [14:44] MoALTz_ (~no@78-10-223-145.static.ip.netia.com.pl) joined #highaltitude. [14:47] MoALTz (~no@78-10-223-145.static.ip.netia.com.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [14:47] SP9UOB-Tom_ (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude. [14:57] trn (jhj@prone.ws) joined #highaltitude. [14:58] upu - ping PM [15:01] Upu, that is :) [15:11] andycamb (~Thunderbi@2001:630:212:800:3939:d3a:fbd6:f7fc) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [15:12] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz [15:17] andycamb (~Thunderbi@2001:630:212:800:5d8f:908:4af6:a480) joined #highaltitude. [15:19] jan64 (~jan64@bjo33.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) joined #highaltitude. [15:27] New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11 [15:40] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [15:44] New position from 03UBSEDS18 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS18 [15:46] hello [15:48] 2 months in the air [16:03] andycamb (~Thunderbi@2001:630:212:800:5d8f:908:4af6:a480) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [16:19] bertrik (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude. [16:24] G0ATW (51909922@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.144.153.34) joined #highaltitude. [16:25] Has BARC4 been recovered? [16:29] es5nhc (~tarmo@57-58-166-83.dyn.estpak.ee) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [16:30] New position from 03S-19 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-19 [16:31] G0ATW (51909922@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.144.153.34) left irc: Quit: Page closed [16:49] LeoBodnar (~LeoBodnar@host86-132-24-144.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: LeoBodnar [16:55] TIBS01 (~tibs01@5751bf7a.skybroadband.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [17:01] Bencls (~Bencls___@host31-51-57-183.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [17:02] KT5TK (~thomas@172.56.16.10) joined #highaltitude. [17:07] fl_0 (unknown@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude. [17:09] rjsnyder (~rjsnyder@p4FCD7544.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude. [17:23] TIBS01 (TIBS01@5751bf7a.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude. [17:27] LeoBodnar (~LeoBodnar@79-76-252-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude. [17:49] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude. [18:12] TIBS02 (~tibs01@5751bf7a.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude. [18:12] TIBS01 (TIBS01@5751bf7a.skybroadband.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [18:17] New position from 03SB after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SB [18:17] andycamb (~Thunderbi@host165-120-207-143.range165-120.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [18:39] New vehicle on the map: 03LTW7QO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LTW7QO [18:53] bugzc (~1@unaffiliated/bugzc) joined #highaltitude. [19:05] KT5TK (thomas@172.56.16.10) left #highaltitude. [19:09] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-179-191-73.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [20:06] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-179-191-73.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds [20:08] Babs_ (522fe266@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.47.226.102) joined #highaltitude. [20:20] rjsnyder (~rjsnyder@p4FCD7544.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [20:36] fab4space (~Fabrice@AMontpellier-656-1-400-3.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [20:49] bertrik (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [20:57] andycamb (~Thunderbi@host165-120-207-143.range165-120.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [21:08] jcoxon (~jcoxon@36.251.198.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude. [21:14] gurlavie_ (uid140489@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jjpuqlhslfgclydt) joined #highaltitude. [21:16] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude. [21:17] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: Quit: Konversation terminated! [21:25] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD [21:27] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [21:45] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude. [21:58] Babs_ (522fe266@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.47.226.102) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [21:58] M0RJX (~M0RJX@cpc97412-hudd9-2-0-cust9.4-1.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude. [21:58] jan64 (~jan64@bjo33.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [21:58] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [21:59] does anyone know if you can stack on the pi radio boards [21:59] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage) joined #highaltitude. [21:59] I cant seem to get anything in the top of the connector on the board [22:00] iooner (~iooner@2001:41d0:a:5b1d::1:20) left irc: Quit: http://www.iooner.me [22:03] jcoxon (~jcoxon@36.251.198.146.dyn.plus.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving [22:16] SP9UOB-Tom_ (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [22:20] There are different types of connector, not all allow multiple stacking [22:21] rjsnyder (~rjsnyder@p4FCD7544.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude. [22:26] rjsnyder (~rjsnyder@p4FCD7544.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [22:35] I guess mine doesn't ! Hey ho I'll fab my own board [22:35] G8KNN_ (~pi@cpc91242-cmbg18-2-0-cust1907.5-4.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [22:36] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [22:38] Geoff-G8DHE-m, it actually looks like this http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=stacking-guide [23:00] I guess that the biggest impediment is getting the right nomenclature for the type of part you want; or a catalogue with a picture :) [23:04] New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11 [23:15] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude. [23:15] Hix (~hix@97e0a657.skybroadband.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [23:26] with the likes of rs and farnel the picture maybe more of a hinderance than help. I've learnt to look at the information and datasheets rather than rely on the image (they often seem to use the same image for a whole range of parts which might include many options. [23:31] Laurenceb_ (~laurence@host86-179-191-73.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [23:39] M0RJX (~M0RJX@cpc97412-hudd9-2-0-cust9.4-1.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [23:39] M0RJX (~M0RJX@82.29.54.10) joined #highaltitude. [23:45] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTi6uM8oak4 - antares launch [23:56] wow Assange stuff is hotting up [23:56] inb4 he is thrown out of embassy [23:57] successful launch, in happier news [23:57] what engines are they using on first stage? [23:58] some ukranian made thing? an rd? [23:59] RD-181 [00:00] --- Tue Oct 18 2016