[00:54] DL7AD_ (~quassel@p4FD41FEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude. [00:57] DL7AD (~quassel@p4FD41F47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [01:01] Ian_ (4d651452@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.101.20.82) left #highaltitude. [01:01] Ian_ (4d651452@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.101.20.82) joined #highaltitude. [01:10] chimpusm_ (~Chris@host109-151-40-199.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [01:14] chimpusmaximus (~Chris@host86-178-84-49.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [01:21] G8KNN (~pi@cpc17-cmbg14-2-0-cust358.5-4.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds [01:22] TheInteroth (~Chris____@host109-151-164-189.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [01:24] Interoth (~Chris____@host86-173-88-182.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [01:31] KT5TK1 (~thomas@p5B37B422.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude. [01:33] KT5TK (~thomas@p5B37B84A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [02:18] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host109-146-22-22.range109-146.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds [02:39] SA6BSS-Mike (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude. [02:42] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [03:33] New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_chase [03:42] day_ (~yashi@unaffiliated/day) joined #highaltitude. [03:44] ggherdov` (sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-diaxnrqeqcmsefro) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [03:45] russss (sid30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iwwbgafzssdskziv) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [03:45] day (~yashi@unaffiliated/day) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [03:45] Nick change: day_ -> day [03:46] nickjohnson (sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plsonqakujniwnab) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [03:50] dock9 (sid49786@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egrpwsdslhaqprbq) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [03:51] ggherdov` (sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mewzauercxhrfkdu) joined #highaltitude. [04:02] russss (sid30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mobpqmwhalpjewil) joined #highaltitude. [04:03] nickjohnson (sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmisvjqnrbqkfirn) joined #highaltitude. [04:29] Lemml (~andreas@p4FEEAC92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude. [04:44] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0 [05:03] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk [05:04] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0 [05:10] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk [05:11] es5nhc (~tarmo@108-40-71-217.static.internet.emt.ee) joined #highaltitude. [05:33] G8KNN (~pi@cpc17-cmbg14-2-0-cust358.5-4.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude. [05:34] I have to inform you of my Fathers death, I enclose the death certificate. I am the executor named in the will and have been granted probate in order to administer all my Fathers affairs. I also enclose the grant of probate. [05:34] I would be grateful if you could release the funds from the bond which my Father held with Aviva. Please make the cheque payable to myself as the executor. [05:34] Please send both the death certificate and grant of probate back to me, since I will need them again. [05:34] Thank you for you assistance. [05:34] ooops [05:34] ignore that [05:36] :-) [05:47] New vehicle on the map: 03KK6UUQ-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6UUQ-1 [06:04] malclocke (~malc@121.99.231.192) joined #highaltitude. [06:04] malclocke (~malc@121.99.231.192) left irc: Client Quit [06:13] OK1RAJ (53d05305@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.208.83.5) joined #highaltitude. [06:15] RAJ-2 start have been delay... We have clouds over Prague now... We are ready to start when the sun work corectly... :-) [06:21] niu (5489dc94@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.137.220.148) joined #highaltitude. [06:54] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude. [06:55] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [07:02] sumie-dh (~sumie-dh@rt02.komunikacnisite.cz) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [07:07] SA6BSS-Mike (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [07:08] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0 [07:08] SA6BSS-Mike (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:20] chimpusm_ (~Chris@host86-178-84-49.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:20] chimpusmaximus (~Chris@host86-178-84-49.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [07:21] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54888E7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude. [07:25] hah [07:25] yes please fix it [07:27] MightyMu (~MightyMu@104.131.138.31) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [07:29] MightyMu (~MightyMu@104.131.138.31) joined #highaltitude. [07:32] chimpusmaximus (~Chris@host86-178-84-49.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:32] chimpusm_ (~Chris@host86-178-84-49.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [07:35] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54888E7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [07:42] devtt (4e918804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.145.136.4) joined #highaltitude. [07:45] fab4space (~fab4space@109.237.242.98) joined #highaltitude. [07:47] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) joined #highaltitude. [07:49] TheInteroth (~Chris____@host109-151-164-189.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds [07:57] ipdove (~ipdove@interclub.plus.com) joined #highaltitude. [08:05] New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-PITS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-PITS [08:06] sumie-dh_ (~sumie-dh@gw.mediafactory.cz) joined #highaltitude. [08:22] DL7AD_ (~quassel@p4FD41FEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [08:25] pb5a (4dfa48c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.250.72.195) joined #highaltitude. [08:27] !flights [08:27] 03pb5a: Current flights: 03SP3OSJ 144.7MHz RTTY 100bd 450/7n2 10(b234), 03RPI Test Flight 10(7795), 03RAJ-2 launch 10(2df6) [08:30] OK1RAJ_ (5918efac@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.24.239.172) joined #highaltitude. [08:31] RAJ-2, sky is clear over Prague now, we are ready to take off... to 9:00 UTC [08:32] dl3yc (~yc@beta.szi.fh-jena.de) joined #highaltitude. [08:34] devtt (4e918804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.145.136.4) left irc: Quit: Page closed [08:34] yea sorry about that we borrowed the sun for a day [08:34] it's a tradition, summer is the best day of the year in Finland and we need the sun for it :) [08:37] New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-PITS-LORA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-PITS-LORA [08:40] New vehicle on the map: 03RAJ-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RAJ-2 [08:41] ibanezmatt13 (d5cdc211@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.205.194.17) joined #highaltitude. [08:42] TT7 (4f7fd023@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.127.208.35) joined #highaltitude. [08:42] hey ibanezmatt13, did you get to the bottom of your busylooping? [08:42] Morning Vaizki [08:42] Guest80363 (5681dd1f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.129.221.31) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [08:42] noope [08:43] I have no idea now what the problem is, might just re-write it or something [08:43] OK1RAJ: good luck, I'll be waiting for RAJ-2's signal at the other side of the country [08:44] devtt (4e918804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.145.136.4) joined #highaltitude. [08:48] dl3yc (~yc@beta.szi.fh-jena.de) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [08:49] ibanezmatt13, doh.. maybe someone here can spot the problem :P [08:50] yeah, I'll fire up the laptop and put a copy out shortly just in case :) [08:51] I'm looking at balloon floating too, trying to work out how the sun affects temp/pressure in and out of the balloon [08:54] dave-mob (~AndChat56@dab-glb1-h-66-4.dab.02.net) joined #highaltitude. [08:55] dl3yc (~yc@beta.szi.fh-jena.de) joined #highaltitude. [09:02] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude. [09:06] SA6BSS-Mike (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [09:23] dl3yc (~yc@beta.szi.fh-jena.de) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [09:23] OK1RAJ_ (5918efac@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.24.239.172) left irc: Quit: Page closed [09:24] ok1cdj (4decc959@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.236.201.89) joined #highaltitude. [09:24] hello all [09:27] garymortimer (9a49dfc7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.154.73.223.199) joined #highaltitude. [09:28] LunarWork (~kevin@131.173.10.152) joined #highaltitude. [09:29] hello [09:29] Hi [09:31] different payloads being switched on in Cambridge? [09:31] rning [09:31] erm [09:31] morning [09:31] batc up ? [09:32] yep :) [09:32] cool [09:32] http://batc.tv/streams/m0rpi [09:32] pubs for current predictions shown tad tricky [09:34] Now more sensible ;-) [09:37] PE2G (~PE2G@2001:982:57a:1:3c09:6cd8:4e0d:d86e) joined #highaltitude. [09:38] New vehicle on the map: 03EOS_T2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EOS_T2 [09:38] try 6m/s up 4.5m/s down burst 29.5km [09:39] Looks a tad breezy [09:40] does indeed [09:46] im trying to wrap my head around this. If i put enough helium into a latex weatherballoon that it starts rising up, isn't it inevitably going to rise up until it pops? [09:46] 1280x960. nice [09:46] day: not always [09:47] fsphil: i was thinking, if it rises it will expand due to lower atmospheric pressure > which induces more rise > which induces more expansion [09:47] if it rises slowly, the latex may have enough strength to stop the expansion of the helium [09:48] the ascent rate is pretty constant [09:48] lots of flights end up out in that area, there really ought to be a UKHAS pub guide to it [09:48] some flights do speed up as they ascend [09:48] fsphil: so my assumption is the general outcome of such an experiment? [09:49] is it anything to do with how as you go up the pressure/density drops so the buoyancy force gets less and closer to the weight of the whole thing? [09:50] that means only foil balloons can be used for long flights, because they do not expand past a predefined voluminum? [09:51] larger latex balloons can be made to float, but usually only for a few days max [09:51] I've had a few flights float for about 24 hours [09:51] ibanezmatt13: assuming that the balloon expands without exerting extra compressive force on the gas, the buoyancy force doesn't change. [09:51] ok1cdj (4decc959@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.236.201.89) left irc: Quit: Page closed [09:52] fsphil: because they ascended so slowly that they didnt hit the critical height? Or were they able to create an equilibrium? [09:52] the latex never gets pushed past its stretch limit [09:52] hm I see [09:52] However of course there will start to be some compression, and although air drag reduces, the balloon gets larger and less aerodynamic.. [09:52] oh i assumed that [09:53] This engineering with numbers is opinion of course ;) [09:53] *without [09:53] :P [09:53] totally :) [09:53] i think Dave is off [09:53] We have lift off [09:54] I'll be doing a floater flight again sometime [09:54] though all my flights seem to happen in winter [09:54] and winter is coming [09:54] :P [09:55] a zero pressure latex balloon would be interesting to try [09:55] zero pressure are the ones with a hole in the bottom? [09:56] yea [09:56] the lifting gas expands downwards [09:56] mm, cool [09:57] latex probably don't make much sense though, the material doesn't need to stretch [09:57] can you make sure that the downside stays down during strong wind? [09:57] just needs to be big already [09:57] weight of the payload should do that [09:57] ive no idea how much weight it would take [09:58] Making your own envelope for that should be quite easy [09:58] none of the superpressure stresses [09:58] yea. just make a long tube [09:58] making the balloon should be simple as well [09:59] can be sealed up for filling [09:59] would need a nice calm day [10:00] Love the size of the ssdv images [10:00] it's a nice change from 320x240 :) [10:00] yep [10:01] First pub recommendation, looks like reasonable beer on tap with large grass area in front to setup antennas and command and control infrastructure http://www.brisleybell.co.uk/ [10:03] Whats with the South African callsign!! ZSTWH [10:04] !dials [10:04] er [10:04] is that a callsign? no numbers in it [10:05] garymortimer: How's your pub knowledge in the hampshire area? [10:05] Ah well now I used to live there so.... [10:06] excellent :D [10:06] My fave is the Milburys and its well [10:06] potential upcoming launch ;) [10:06] interesting how the missing packets have less of an effect on the large image [10:06] they tend to blend in [10:06] Yeah its an aircraft tail number down here [10:07] ah, I was thinking amateur radio callsign. [10:07] Oh, wasn't paying attention there and slow to tune in to the RTTY. The LoRa sorted itself out. [10:07] oh rtty flight?? [10:07] lora even [10:07] need to get the websdr rx going... [10:08] I had the airspy setup at home, but my internet's gone down [10:08] Herman_ (535426fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.84.38.250) joined #highaltitude. [10:08] typical [10:08] !flights [10:08] 03Herman_: Current flights: 03SP3OSJ 144.7MHz RTTY 100bd 450/7n2 10(b234), 03RPI Test Flight 10(7795), 03RAJ-2 launch 10(2df6) [10:08] is the sstv lora [10:08] !flights [10:08] 03Geoff-G8DHE: Current flights: 03SP3OSJ 144.7MHz RTTY 100bd 450/7n2 10(b234), 03RPI Test Flight 10(7795), 03RAJ-2 launch 10(2df6) [10:08] garymortimer: seems to be ssdv going over both rtty and lora [10:08] !flight7795 [10:08] assuming the larger images are through lora [10:08] !flight 7795 [10:08] 03Geoff-G8DHE: Flight 10(7795): 03RPI Test Flight 10(2 payloads) - Launch date 03Today at 11:00 from 03Cambridgeshire, UK 10(52.2135,0.0964) [10:09] !dial 7795 [10:09] 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03RPF-PITS-LoRa 10(7795): none [10:09] 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03RPF-PITS 10(7795): 03434.60295 MHz, 434.6026 MHz, 434.603 MHz [10:09] freq of RPF ???? [10:09] Payload ID RPF-PITS, 434.600MHz, 300 baud, 8 N 2. Telemetry and SSDV [10:09] Its 3KHz high [10:09] that large image is great [10:10] Just picking up LoRa in Peterborough [10:10] Hmmm [10:10] I'm getting garbage on the decode [10:10] Autoconfigure checks out though [10:10] ssdv will appear as garbage text [10:10] but you should still see the normal $$ strings every so often [10:11] gotcha [10:11] !payload 7795 [10:11] 03Geoff-G8DHE: Payload 03RPF-PITS-LoRa 10(7795) 03$$RPF-PITS-LoRa - no transmissions [10:11] 03Geoff-G8DHE: Payload 03RPF-PITS 10(7795) 03$$RPF-PITS - 03Primary - 03434.6 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2 [10:11] doe FL decode the lors or do you need a module?? [10:12] Whiteg6 (d92cf33e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.44.243.62) joined #highaltitude. [10:12] !flights [10:12] 03Whiteg6: Current flights: 03SP3OSJ 144.7MHz RTTY 100bd 450/7n2 10(b234), 03RPI Test Flight 10(7795), 03RAJ-2 launch 10(2df6) [10:13] is the ZSTWH on the tracker ? [10:13] :-) my First proper LoRa decode [10:13] fl-digi autoconfig is working ?? [10:14] garymortimer: it's a proprietary mode, requires the hardware module sadly [10:14] websdr lora gateway: ONLINE :) [10:14] how does the gateways handle ssdv packets? [10:14] heh [10:14] uploaded to habhub? [10:15] Yes [10:15] still only showing a single station for the large images [10:15] I think a lot of mine are failing crc [10:16] ZSTWH on SSDV where is is it, im confused ? [10:16] I thought so, I have a couple here they are the future! [10:16] does the gateway tell you the frequency offset of the lora signal? [10:16] I hope not :) at least, not until it's fully reverse engineered [10:16] 20kHz is quite sensitive to frequency mismatches [10:16] I'd rather use something that's free to implement ourselves [10:16] 434.603 very strong but no decode in fl-digi-hab [10:17] Same here [10:17] Although I have a fair amount of local QRM here [10:18] dl3yc (~yc@outbound01.eduroam.eah-jena.de) joined #highaltitude. [10:19] dl3yc (~yc@outbound01.eduroam.eah-jena.de) left irc: Client Quit [10:19] yes now decod [10:19] I'm getting ssdv packets [10:20] Looking at it i assume the callsigns shown on ssdv on LoRa images don't show the actual reciever? [10:20] but not showing callsign on ssdv. [10:20] Is ZSTWH the Cambridge flight RPI or something ? [10:21] Geoff-G8DHE: Yes as far as i understand [10:21] I'm uploading SSDV from LoRa as far as I know, but my callsign isn't showing so I guess it must be using the payload callsign [10:21] SSDV Packet, Callsign ZSTWH, Image 9, Packet 17, 7 Missing [10:23] It's an error in the code [10:23] mattbrejza: Dave's gateway code does show offset and I added AFC so it can tune itself [10:23] oh ok [10:24] but perhaps chimpusmaximus 's lora reciever isnt AFC'ing [10:24] fsphil: ?callsign= on sanslogic/ssdv/data.php [10:24] Still no decodes [10:24] what callsign is that meant to be? [10:24] Loud and clear though [10:24] I still say this is a great place to wait http://www.brisleybell.co.uk/ Dave [10:24] AFC on and seems to be working, my antenna is far from ideal [10:24] https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway/blob/master/gateway.c#L599 sends the payload callsign [10:24] what throughput is this lora? [10:25] Ah right starting to get TTY decode but nothing on LoRa yet odd [10:25] unlike https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway/blob/master/gateway.c#L557 [10:27] Ah right they are using a different callsign for SSDV from telemetry! [10:28] the AFC could do with a bit more hysteresis, I should probably make it bandwidth dependent too [10:29] craag: callsign is the receiver [10:30] it gets the payload name from the packet [10:30] fsphil: That's what I thought :) [10:30] see you've fixed it [10:30] jokke_ (~jokke@unaffiliated/jokke/x-6281767) joined #highaltitude. [10:30] your callsign showing up nicely [10:30] I've fixed and dave has a pull req ;) [10:30] Geoff-G8DHE: I have the LoRa a bit high, try tuning up a bit with 'd' so the AFC can capture it [10:30] yea ive found the afc can go haywire sometimes [10:32] https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway/pull/3 [10:32] ^^ This fixes ssdv callsign for lora upload [10:32] I tested the AFC with a slow mode which also had gaps between packets so this is its first real test [10:32] it appears to be sending ground images [10:32] with the same numeric ID? [10:33] that's a it odd [10:33] bit* [10:35] sometimes the lora module reports somewhat dodgy offset values [10:37] i rcvd lot of data but see not yet a picture [10:38] al data is green [10:42] http://i.sigio.nl/ee9c42f5d79004d5e4721df71611c7ef.jpg [10:42] mattbrejza: I've not noticed that. I could also add a sanity check and rolling average as it should only need to handle a slow drift. [10:42] so this is the image fldigi was just decoding, but it isnt on ssdv.habhub http://imgur.com/kazDQn7 [10:43] note tjats image 0x0A (10), but 10 on ssdv is different, and screwed up [10:43] that's a collision of two images [10:43] with the same resolution, callsign and image id [10:44] so did the payload send id 0x0A twice? [10:44] seems to have yea [10:45] maybe lora and rtty are re-using IDs [10:45] they are [10:45] ah yes [10:45] should probably have different callsigns [10:45] or interleaved image IDs [10:47] lora is now up to SSDV Packet, Callsign ZSTWH, Image 26, Packet 24, 19 Missing [10:49] Ah on the gateway you can't control the Freq. once AFC has jumped in on EITHER channel :-( [10:50] I've switched off AFC and set freq to 424.4025 [10:50] Freq Error = -0.0 KHz :) [10:51] lets wave my lora rx around and see what i get [10:51] using a shitty antenna though [10:51] \o [10:51] /o [10:52] Geoff-G8DHE: it should still tune, but AFC will still kick in unless switched off [10:52] actually might wait for some more altitude [10:52] dbrooke, Here its ignoring the kbd totally [10:52] More importantly it looks like the pub at Whissonsett marked on the OS just up the way from current landing positions has closed [10:53] http://www.whissonsett.com/village_history/ [10:54] Geoff-G8DHE: Hmm, it works for me. [10:55] perhaps its different version of code ? [10:57] only differences I have from Dave's master is craag's fix and increased AFC hysteresis [10:58] Once a channel is showing something I loose control [10:59] on both channels [11:03] Well I only have one channel but don't think that should make any difference [11:03] so i am writing a while funcube now agn back to RPI [11:04] pb5a (4dfa48c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.250.72.195) left irc: Quit: Page closed [11:05] ibanezmatt13 (d5cdc211@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.205.194.17) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [11:05] I wonder why Dave did'nt go up the 1065 [11:05] http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Highlights/Boundary_conditions [11:06] I live in Rosetta, oh no thats a different place https://www.google.co.za/maps/place/Rosetta/@-29.3043305,29.98493,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x1ef3fa8101a3c76f:0x312cb6533d7f3d05 [11:07] PerczUK (5689cd3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.137.205.58) joined #highaltitude. [11:07] :) [11:07] hi everyone o/ [11:09] garymortimer, well then you'll have PS-46 buzz you soon :) [11:10] yeah an amazing flight [11:10] PerczUK (5689cd3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.137.205.58) left irc: Client Quit [11:12] Only a pop up pub at Mileham (current landing ish) http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/pop_up_pub_at_mileham_village_hall_aims_to_revive_social_spirit_1_2813181 looks like there needs to be pub free landing danger areas marked on charts as well [11:14] Lets hope it can make it to the Brisley Bell and its open [11:16] pfysmate (1fdd5142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.221.81.66) joined #highaltitude. [11:20] dave-mob (~AndChat56@dab-glb1-h-66-4.dab.02.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [11:21] ok1cdj (d5e2c165@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.226.193.101) joined #highaltitude. [11:21] hi [11:22] please look for RAJ-2 434.690 [11:23] Back receiving LoRa after fudging yagi in front garden [11:25] it's a bit hit and miss [11:26] Can we see the sea yet (yes in 51) [11:26] raj-2 is a floater? [11:29] yea the coastline is showing in a few [11:29] chimpusm_ (~Chris@host86-178-84-49.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [11:29] very patchy cloud on the south coast today [11:30] What's the orange tube in RPF-PITS's pics? [11:30] antenna support maybe [11:30] yes, raj-2 is floater [11:30] ultralight, payload only 7.5g and foil balloon [11:31] but is powered only from solar [11:31] no battery.. [11:31] Second pub prediction for Dave (he did ask) http://www.longhamwhitehorse.co.uk/ [11:32] In fact that and the Brisley Bell are the only two worth a look in the area I think and I don't think the Bell is open from a refit yet. I have seen it was close in June [11:32] Johnwulp (~Johnwulp@92.109.151.65) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [11:32] ok1cdj, interesting [11:33] Interoth (~Chris____@host109-151-164-189.range109-151.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [11:34] New vehicle on the map: 03jr_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=jr_chase [11:35] pop [11:36] garymortimer: did you notice the burst in the signal? [11:36] no just on the display [11:37] I didn't notice it either [11:38] pfysmate (1fdd5142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.221.81.66) left irc: Quit: Page closed [11:40] I do like the speed of the LoRa images [11:40] only dropping one in 30 packets at moment [11:40] http://www.kingsheadhotel.net/ this might be pretty close by as well ;) [11:41] Too early for the folk night though [11:42] Johnwulp (~Johnwulp@92.109.151.65) joined #highaltitude. [11:43] PE2BZ (~pe2bz@032-145-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl) joined #highaltitude. [11:44] !flights [11:44] 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03SP3OSJ 144.7MHz RTTY 100bd 450/7n2 10(b234), 03RPI Test Flight 10(7795), 03RAJ-2 launch 10(2df6) [11:44] !dial zstwh [11:44] 03PE2BZ: Can't find a flight doc matching your query [11:44] !dial rpi-pits [11:44] 03PE2BZ: Can't find a flight doc matching your query [11:44] !dial rpf-pits [11:44] 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03RPF-PITS 10(7795): 03434.603482 MHz, 434.603 MHz, 434.603444 MHz, 434.60312 MHz, 434.6026 MHz, 434.603483 MHz, 434.60333 MHz [11:45] !dial rpf-pits-lora [11:45] 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03RPF-PITS-LoRa 10(7795): none [11:45] PE2BZ: RPF-PITS on 434.604 [11:46] PE2G Thanks Frits. Had to check if my SDR-Play is on frequency ;-) [11:47] PE2BZ: np. O3 is up. [11:47] How should LORA have to look on the waterfall ? I see a 16 kHz broad carrier. [11:51] dl3yc (~yc@beta.szi.fh-jena.de) joined #highaltitude. [11:52] PE2BZ: this screenshot was on this channel a while ago: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/upu-lora-explained.png [11:53] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude. [11:54] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [11:55] Asok (d572a04e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.114.160.78) joined #highaltitude. [11:55] oh that looks like my payload lol [11:55] all of the lora modes... [11:55] PE2G Tnx. Saw something that looked like it, but much weaker than the RTTY @434.600 [11:55] typo in that image [11:56] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude. [11:56] lora seems to be just a wide FSK mode. we could totally do better :) [11:57] umm lora is a chirp mode [11:57] dl3yc (~yc@beta.szi.fh-jena.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [11:58] probably QPSK with frequency hopping will work best [11:58] with perhaps some feedback so i can avoid interference [11:58] the receiver locks on to the chirp "ramp" preamble which also allows lots of overlapping lora signals to be decoded [11:58] *it [11:58] if lora was multiuser it would be great [11:58] but it isnt [11:59] (and open etc) [11:59] !flights [11:59] 03Whiteg6: Current flights: 03SP3OSJ 144.7MHz RTTY 100bd 450/7n2 10(b234), 03RPI Test Flight 10(7795), 03RAJ-2 launch 10(2df6) [11:59] what do you mean multiuser? [11:59] you cant have two people using a frequency at the same time [11:59] like with DSSS [12:00] well from what I understand you can especially if the chirp rates are different [12:00] i.e. different ramp speeds [12:01] yea but i still not think its great, and there is only one chirp pattern per configuration [12:02] well I lack real world experience but I guess lora is really meant for infrequent short bursts of data [12:03] Anyone Know what the $$$BARC RRTY is on 434.729 ? [12:03] jrchase could at least go and see if the pub is open! [12:03] yea indeed [12:04] so do you think something like rc dsss radios would work out for hab telemetry? [12:04] Whiteg6 at the west coast of the Netherlands no RTTY signal on 434.729 [12:04] perhaps not out of the box ones [12:04] you would have to make custom stuff [12:05] Cheers occasionally there is LAT/LON info and it puts it North of Sheffield [12:06] If it[ height is continuous perhaps it�s a �to be launched� balloon, near you ? [12:06] Whiteg6: they are http://sentintospace.com/ [12:07] ok1cdj (d5e2c165@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.226.193.101) left irc: Quit: Page closed [12:07] mattbrejza, but DSSS usually has more than one symbol per bit, right? meaning we'd need a radio that can jump between frequencies extremely quickly [12:08] dsss is fast bpsk (kinda) [12:08] Getting proper info now altitude is 8000ish metres [12:08] from a designing the tx point of view [12:08] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [12:08] a bit is many bits [12:08] it's a neat system [12:09] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude. [12:09] hmmh ok [12:10] chimpusm_ (~Chris@host86-178-84-49.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [12:10] cheers fsphil [12:12] ah so the DSSS signal would be formed by modulating the data signal with pseudo noise, then just analog mixing it onto a carrier without any bpf to produces a wide "DSB" signal? [12:13] yea you'd have two sequences of pseudo random data, one represnting 0 and the other 1 [12:14] so you might be sending at 1000bit/s from the transmitters point of view [12:14] but the symbols could be 1000 bits long, and the actual data rate is 1bit/s [12:14] right, and by using different sequences multiple users can coexist on the same spectrum [12:14] exactly [12:15] I am a Futaba FASST user btw :) [12:15] Whiteg6 (d92cf33e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.44.243.62) left irc: Quit: Page closed [12:15] also if done on a hab you could use it for 'reverse gps' [12:16] I really want to try that [12:16] i wonder if the 'txdone' signal from the lora modules is useable [12:16] i suspect theres too much jitter in the signal [12:16] reverse gps? like trilateration? [12:17] yea [12:18] picked landing spot nicely ... as far away from any road as possible on the area ;) [12:18] the fast rate the pseudo code is sent at makes it good for timing [12:19] not sure what rate the GPS satellites use [12:19] I guess you can trilaterate just based on differences between successive receptions etc? [12:19] at least the FR24 receivers don't timestamp with GPS even though they have GPS built in [12:19] you'd need a number of receive stations, each with accurate clocks to compare receive time against [12:19] 1Mbit fsphil [12:20] nice. could be tricky making a transmitter [12:20] fsphil, yea but FR24 doesn't do that for trilateration. I thought that was the obvious ToA way [12:20] I wouldn't want to fly a hackrf [12:21] well all you need is a DAC of a new MSPS and a IQ modulator [12:21] *few [12:21] this would still be ToA [12:21] I forget the specifics but I remember that FR24 doesn't timestamp received messages and doesn't care about the latency between receiver and server [12:22] blitzortung record each RF spike from lightning and send that in along with the time since the last GPS PPS pulse [12:22] that's probably as simple as a ToA system could get [12:23] yes, but you need to GPS timestamp at the receiver [12:23] in a sense [12:23] FR24 system doesn't need that but of course the transmitter has to move and planes move pretty fast [12:24] so each receiver will see different time deltas between transmissions [12:25] and they just use that to trilaterate positions.. if I remember correctly. prog knows the details, there was a long discussion of it on #airspy :) [12:30] PE2G (PE2G@2001:982:57a:1:3c09:6cd8:4e0d:d86e) left #highaltitude. [12:31] I can imagine. could probably write a book on it :) [12:37] you can really see the swinging of the balloon for the lora tracker [12:38] anyway, would be very advantageous if the receivers didn't have to have a GPS PPS signal coming in [12:43] can't rely on doppler [12:45] gps at the receiver is simple though [12:46] and so cheap for the accuracy you get. [12:47] it's not doppler.. it's more like payload sends out 2 messages, 10 seconds apart.. receiver A sees them 10.0123s apart and B seems them 9.998s apart .. and send this info to the servers. [12:47] Asok (d572a04e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.114.160.78) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds [12:47] so only a local clock is needed to track intervals instead of global gps clock [12:48] but probably the hab payloads are moving too slow to make it work. [12:48] that is doppler in a way - just over a longer time period. [12:49] yea, probably too slow. it's a neat trick though [12:49] and relies on the balloon moving? [12:49] yes [12:50] you couldn't get a position if it was too slow/still. [12:50] they do sometimes go straight up and down [12:50] yes I know. [12:50] I'm not saying it's viable, just wondering out loud :) [12:50] altitude accuracy will be pretty poor even for ToA with GPS :) [12:50] fair enough, nice trick :) [12:51] with global GPS clock and ToA, you'd need to account for local latency somehow [12:52] as long as you have the ToA relative to GPS time, network latency won't matter [12:52] if you are running windows with fldigi and random SDR and a random GPS.. how do you calibrate the arrival of the sentence and ppm [12:52] you don't use fldigi [12:52] right [12:52] do it in hardware/firmware [12:52] yea I was thinking airspy has a nice clock and gpio.. ;) [12:52] yep :) [12:52] you could do it with an airspy and in software if the gps pps signal could be included in what the airspy receives [12:53] just need the processing onboard to trigger on the right pulse [12:53] or that [12:53] I think Darkside did that with an rtlsdr once? [12:53] airspy normally sends 12bit samples in 16bit words.. so there's a few bits left for pps etc ;) [12:54] oh nice [12:54] easy modification to the firmware, just make ISR that flags the next packet for an extra bit [12:54] oops [12:55] forget that. it uses DMA from the ADC :( [12:55] so not as simple.. but the source is on github :) [12:57] michal_f (~michal_f@84-10-62-166.static.chello.pl) joined #highaltitude. [13:01] shame there is no ISM band near the GPS frequencies [13:16]