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[03:34] nayr (~nayr@users.nayr.net) got lost in the net-split. [03:46] hello nigelvh [03:46] Evening [03:46] heh... I grabbed 10 standard mylar "Mother's Day" balloons thinking Monday they'd be pretty cheap... [03:46] there is like zero lift [03:47] doubt ten of 'em would lift a pair of AA batteries! [03:55] Have you actually measured the lift? [04:25] no [04:25] I just weighed my tracker and 3 standard Energizer AA's... 115.83 grams (with a stubby duck antenna) [04:26] that's without ANY insulation or a keychain HD camera... [04:26] let me toss on the camera... [04:26] 135.04 grams [04:26] with the keychain [04:27] I need to lose the battery holder for sure... solder them together... [04:28] but I know what that'd do to the batts (potentially) [04:28] if I'm not fast enough [04:29] and I think my 1/4 whip might weigh less (probably the same) [04:29] add counterpoise... [04:29] dang... [04:29] and insulation... [04:29] Yep, it adds up. [04:30] fast! [04:30] do you know what a single 3 ft. mylar provides in lift? [04:31] Nope [04:31] so I know how many would be needed... [04:31] :( [04:31] I know already one won't be enough [04:31] four to six maybe... [04:31] for a pico [04:31] That sounds about usual [04:31] APRS pico seems to be heavier payload than RTTY... [04:32] there are issues with having that many balloons too, as you probably won't manage to fill them all exactly the same [04:32] APRS pico has a larger antenna. [04:32] right [04:32] still, it'l go up with enough of them :P [04:32] :) [04:32] just probably one will burst before the others which might make it just descend very slowly or do other annoying things [04:32] but what is enough for fast ascent to burst? [04:32] well that's kinda one of the problems [04:32] one of them bursts first [04:33] now there's not enough lift, it descends very slowly [04:33] touches down in the evening [04:33] bah... [04:33] next morning, sun warms it up, there's just enough lift to pick up a little [04:33] and it starts drifting a long way at low altitude, into power lines and roads and so forth [04:33] need a sensor on each balloon... one bursts... cutdown. [04:33] Just do a time cutdown. [04:33] or an altitude (or change in altitude) cutdown [04:33] time is good too [04:34] Randomskk: are you in the US or UK? [04:34] UK [04:34] despite what timezones may lead you to believe [04:34] okay... so say a 1km drop... cutdown? [04:34] I live on UTC [04:34] heathkid: that kind of thing [04:34] heathkid: UTC <3 though sadly right now the UK is in BST so we're an hour off [04:34] very frustrating [04:35] Action: heathkid is UTC -5 right now [04:35] I wouldn't typically be awake at this hour but my MEng project is worrying [04:35] so I am worrying at it [04:35] what's a MEng project? [04:35] hmm [04:35] my master of engineering degree project [04:36] mechanical engineering? [04:36] heathkid, I wouldn't rely on the alt. I'd do a cutdown if it's still up after a few hours if you want it nearby. [04:36] just "engineering", though my specialism is technically "computer and information engineering [04:36] that's what my degree is in sort of... [04:36] computer engineering technology [04:36] in reality I'm mostly doing info stuff, a mix of control and inference and sigproc and things [04:37] though I spent two years doing mechanical and thermo and fluids and civil and materials and god knows what else [04:37] yeah... in reality... I do nothing that has to do with my degree [04:37] hehe [04:38] okay nigelvh... now I'm stuck with not knowing how many balloons I need to provide lift for a fast ascent... nor how fast they will ascend for a time based cutudown which this version of the board doesn't support... [04:39] I'm afraid if I do a "pico" launch... it'll end up transatlantic! [04:39] Not sure that's likely, but it may not be an easy recovery. [04:39] or at least "atlantic"... and get pretty wet and non-recoverable [04:39] picos are often fairly tricky to recover [04:40] I'm in Indiana... the Jetstream is usually right above me [04:41] Randomskk: are you suggesting for the very FIRST launch I ever do with a new tracker board that hasn't flown yet (though a few variations already have)... I use my Kaymont 1600 and hope for the best? [04:41] if you want to recover it and have a predictable flight and all that, then quite possibly yes [04:41] you could get like a 100g latex balloon [04:42] that's like $500 for a launch and probably no hope of recovery.... [04:42] mylars are just more faff. harder to fill, very hard to balance the fill, and probably one will burst and the rest will sink slowly [04:42] maybe make a lighter payload ;) [04:42] (just kidding) [04:42] doing lots of mylar balloons works [04:42] yeah... not sure how it could be lighter... [04:42] but they do tend to have this issue with it falling slowly [04:42] cutdowns solve that nicely [04:43] and as a bonus really help ensure it lands nearby [04:43] but you'll probably need a fair few balloons [04:43] the tracker itself is only 13.83g [04:45] 3 AA (standard Energizers.. I know the Ultimate Lithiums are lighter) are 84.52g in a holder... [04:45] 13.83 isn't bad [04:45] but I've seen 1xAAA trackers, I think :P [04:46] definitely worth getting lithiums [04:46] stubby duck antenna for 2m is 17.44g [04:46] I guess that doesn't help [04:46] we mostly use 1/4 wave whips on 434MHz which are pretty light [04:46] can't do a HX-1 based tracker on one AA [04:47] step up voltage converters :P [04:47] already doing that [04:47] huh [04:47] current the problem? [04:47] :) [04:47] yep [04:47] fe [04:47] I forgot, those 2m radio units pack a reasonable punch huh? none of this 10mW stuff? [04:48] 300mW [04:48] and already looking at a 500mW transceiver [04:49] sucks to be in the UK [04:49] ;) [04:49] sorry... couldn't resist... [04:49] we manage >700km to the radio horizon on 10mW [04:49] I don't think we're lacking for much :P [04:49] need a lot more than 300mW to get beyond radio horizon [04:50] true [04:50] but we're doing APRS... not RTTY [04:50] However, FM benefits a good bit from more power. [04:50] I want to do APRS, RTTY, and CW [04:50] yea, aprs needs more [04:51] silly afsk [04:51] plus a 70cm video downlink [04:51] that's cool [04:51] ultimate goal is 1080p live video stream [04:51] doubt that'll ever happen [04:53] you need like 25MBit/s for 1080p [04:53] unless I do a sat uplink to downlink the video stream [04:53] _with_ compression [04:53] right [04:53] maybe 30 or so [04:54] especially with high motion from swinging balloons [04:54] I happen to do some contract work for a company that happens to own a few geosync sats... ;) [04:54] I guess you can use your amateur licenses though [04:54] ha [04:54] who knows... [04:54] still [04:54] pointing an antenna and getting enough power to uplink 30MBit/s on a satellite band [04:54] swinging balloons? [04:54] is going to be a fun challenge [04:55] swinging payloads* I guess [04:55] a couple gimbles... etc... that's the easy part (just need a bigger balloon) [04:55] :P [04:55] you're not the first to say that [04:56] sort of like a Steady-Cam tripod mount [04:56] with a stepper based direction motor [04:56] no crooked pics for me! lol [04:57] just need a bigger balloon! :P [04:57] good luck :P [04:57] Atlas rocket would be a lot easier... but not really in my budget. [04:58] heh.. filling my Kaymont 1600 blows the budget! :) [05:20] anyone have a link to a smaller latex that'll lift say... 200 grams? [05:20] and a lift calculator? [05:20] I want fast ascent to burst for my first launch [05:21] http://habhub.org/calc [05:24] Blarg [05:24] that doesn't seem to calculate anything... [05:25] do you have javascript enabled? [05:25] yes [05:25] I change things but nothing changes... [05:26] wfm [05:26] what browser? [05:26] Firefox [05:26] not that it should matter. it's just simple javascript [05:26] does the results box at the bottom have any values in it at all? [05:26] and if you click Constants, does it expand? [05:27] it does... but I don't see a results box [05:27] not having a results box sounds like it might be part of the problem [05:27] it should be between the input boxes and the constants box [05:27] :/ [05:30] with a payload mass of 225g and balloon mass of (Kaymont -200) with target burst altitude of 40000m I get: [05:30] Burst Altitude: 33000 m Ascent Rate: 2.33 m/s [05:30] Time to Burst: 238 min Neck Lift: 1733 g [05:30] Volume: 2.66 m3 2660 L 93.9 ft3 [05:30] is that right? [05:30] probably about right [05:31] that's a pretty slow ascent [05:31] don't I want about 5m/s? [05:31] it's not appalling but it is a bit slow [05:31] 5 is nicer [05:32] I tried changing it to a Kyamont 450 but nothing changed... using a 225g payload mass [05:33] check it hasn't given any errors in red text [05:33] like "Altitude unreachable for this configuration" [05:33] I'll try IE [05:33] (which is what I get with a 225g payload, 450g balloon mass, 40k burst) [05:33] firefox really should work. I recommend chrome if you're going to do something different. IE is more likely to not work. [05:33] hmm... I don't get that [05:33] I don't think it's your browser though [05:34] heathkid: it's in light read text, just above the results box [05:34] where the word "Result" was [05:34] I don't see a "Result" [05:35] IE is working better than Firefox [05:37] bah [05:37] really? [05:37] with a 225g payload a Kaymont 2000 is a "Result (ocnfiguration suggests a possible floater)???? [05:38] there we go... [05:38] I only need a Kaymont 3000 [05:38] 225g payload [05:38] Burst Altitude: 40000 m Ascent Rate: 5.37 m/s Time to Burst: 124 min Neck Lift: 1701 g Volume: 4.58 m3 4580 L 161.7 ft [05:39] not exactly a pico! [05:39] lol [05:40] that calculator is WAY off [05:40] on the kaymont site... [05:41] ...a Kaymont 3000 will lift a 4.4 lb. payload to 118,500 ft. before burst [05:42] uh huh [05:42] and if you plug in 2000g payload, kaymont 3000 balloon, and 36000m altitude [05:43] you get that it does get there, with an ascent rate of 6.5m/s [05:43] that's 1995.806 grams! [05:43] which works fine on the calculator [05:43] so which balloon do I need for a 225g payload? [05:43] I would note that the atmospheric density drops off exponentially and getting to 40km is a lot harder than 36km (118kft is 36km) [05:44] idk, not much of one. maybe a 800g [05:44] depends on how high you want to get [05:44] I'd be happy with 100kft for first launch [05:44] well then plug it all in and see what you get [05:44] the calculator is pretty accurate [05:46] seems a Kaymont 1200 to get me to 36km at 5.44 m/s is the best bet [05:47] $$$ helium [05:47] haven't weighed my paraschute or radar reflector yet [05:47] how does anyone do a pico??? [05:47] doesn't seem possible! [05:47] light payloads (<60g total) helps [05:48] the batteries weigh more than that [05:48] err [05:48] 1x lithium AA is 12g [05:48] sorry... don't have my lithiums yet to weigh... [05:48] that will run Upu's payload or my payload, for about 30 hours [05:48] ONE AA? [05:48] yes [05:49] hell, we could use a AAA if we were OK with the shorter runtime - that'd be 7g [05:49] Action: heathkid just fell out of his chair... give him a minute to recover... [05:50] lol [05:50] http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/DSC_7956.jpg [05:56] that's RTTY only... right? [05:57] not APRS? [05:57] yes, but you can do APRS with a single AA too [05:57] it just won't last as long [05:57] maybe a day [05:57] top [05:57] tops [05:57] with that board? [05:57] nah, not with that board [05:57] Upu has a design that does it [05:57] heh... I'll give RTTY a try if you can get Upu to send me a board to test [05:58] >_> [05:58] If I can run off one AAA lithium for fast ascent to burst and be able to track it... [05:58] then I can go from there... and go bigger and better [06:00] codrBlu (~codrBlu@cpe-184-57-3-176.columbus.res.rr.com) left irc: Quit: codrBlu [06:02] otherwise... I'm about to give up on this hobby... seriously. [06:02] I need to get at something in the air ASAP! :) [06:12] Upu please help me... [06:21] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-50-47.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [06:27] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-99-17.49-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude. [06:27] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-50-47.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving [06:38] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-148-50-47.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [06:52] steve_____ (~steve@cpc2-cbly1-0-0-cust515.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude. [06:58] nayr_ (~nayr@users.nayr.net) joined #highaltitude. [06:59] malgar (~malgar@adsl-ull-99-17.49-151.net24.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds [07:00] simrun (~simrun@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-xzncurgoocucopie) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [07:05] lz1dev (~rgp@46.47.80.192) joined #highaltitude. [07:06] simrun (~simrun@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-mevupfroauouvqar) joined #highaltitude. [07:09] lz1dev (~rgp@46.47.80.192) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [07:26] morning all [07:26] morning [07:28] hiya [07:29] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:29] all well? [07:32] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude. [07:33] SP9UOB_Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude. [07:33] Action: SP9UOB_Tom is gone. Gone since Sat May 11 11:49:00 2013 [07:34] meta [07:35] all is very well, good morning [07:36] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f [07:37] i tested my tracker earlier, it worked great 8 km away, behind the trees from the backseat! :) [07:38] homemade GP antenna and an RTLSDR for RX [07:39] nice! [07:39] sounds like ready for launch :) [07:39] we are finally getting there :) [07:43] i made a measure-tape yagi yesterday, too, but it wasn't even necessary this time, however i tested it yesterday in the garden with the payload antenna removed, and was amazed how much better it was compared to the GP, when i pointed it the right direction [07:44] yeah, not only do you get the increased gain, you more loose the 360 degrees of noise [07:45] i know that's technically the same thing, but i mean it's more about improving the SNR, i think, than collecting more energy, with habs sometimes [07:46] right, will try to test it on some amateur satellites today [07:47] rbckman (~rob@85-156-209-186.elisa-mobile.fi) joined #highaltitude. [07:51] daveake (~daveake@daveake.plus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving [07:54] morning [07:56] Morning upu [07:56] quick question if I might [07:56] sure [07:57] I submitted an order to your store for some GPS modules and ordered airsure shipping. What sort of timeframe does it take to get over here? [07:57] Received email: Steve "[UKHAS] Decoding RTTY tips" [07:57] good question [07:57] and it all depends on USPS [07:57] but its pretty quick normally [07:58] 5 working days I think [07:58] nosebleedkt (~nose@ppp141237128172.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude. [07:58] Good deal. Don't need it tomorrow, but 3 weeks is a bit too slow. [07:58] all depends if customs decide to hold it up [07:59] Those jerkbags. [07:59] I've had customs hold a package without reason for 5 weeks once [07:59] I even started the claim process then one day it just turned up [08:00] Hmm [08:00] Aim is six working days after posting to the Rest of the World. [08:00] Good deal [08:00] That works for me. [08:00] Will despatch tomorrow [08:00] Yes, seeing as it's sunday for you presently. [08:00] Thanks for the order its appreciated [08:01] Of course. [08:01] Thank you for having the uBlox modules at good prices. [08:02] can you get any further west than that without falling in the sea ? [08:02] Not really. [08:02] I do live in "Shoreline" [08:02] indeed [08:02] imaginative place name [08:03] you're almost Canadian [08:03] that said i live in oxford [08:03] which is where the river thames gets small enough that you can ford your oxen [08:03] Almost, canadia is only about an hour.5 north or so. [08:03] and before that i lived in cambridge [08:03] which is where there was a bridge over the river cam [08:04] so.... [08:04] anyone here from Cockermouth ? [08:04] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude. [08:04] giggle [08:05] seriously [08:05] is that a real place [08:05] yes [08:05] wow [08:06] there are lots [08:06] Cocks, in Cornwall [08:06] Minge Lane in worcestershire [08:06] Bell End, also in worcestershire [08:06] Twatt in the shetlands [08:06] Sandy Balls in the new forrest [08:06] Fingeringhoe in Essex [08:06] Haha [08:07] Butt Hole Road in yorkshire [08:07] now you're just making it up [08:07] well there are hundreds [08:07] i'm not making any of it up [08:07] butt hole road? [08:07] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butt_Hole_Road [08:07] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7263112/Britains-rudest-place-names.html [08:07] LOL [08:08] haha [08:08] hi [08:08] well [08:08] we have the trifecta in adelaide [08:08] lemme find a link, hold on [08:08] anyway Darkside you have Middle Intercourse Island [08:08] who wrote the ublox6 navmode bytes in thw ukhas? [08:08] Iron Knob [08:08] Mount Buggery [08:09] http://www.icanhasinternets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/wQo1y.jpg [08:09] Upu: lol, Iron Knob is 50km from home home town [08:09] their tourism advertising campaign was "Iron Knob - What a hole!" (big ironore mine) [08:10] anyway [08:10] Gays Arcade [08:10] Erected 1885 [08:10] James Cumming, Architect [08:11] anyway moving on :) [08:11] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMR5JVo21wQ [08:11] can i evangelise roast chicken briefly [08:12] i have found the one true way of roasting one [08:12] lol [08:12] oh? [08:12] yes [08:12] listening [08:12] I went to a farm shop locally yesterday was amazing [08:12] it involves not being silly and faffy which i am prone to [08:12] bought lots of nice things [08:12] you need a good chicken [08:12] but [08:13] butt [08:13] just put some salt and pepper and herbs and whatever up its jacksie [08:13] and then only, only, strictly only, salt and pepper on the skin [08:13] about 1 tbsp of salt, really to give it a decent covering [08:13] chicken crackling? [08:14] then an hour or two uncovered in the fridge to get the skin really dry [08:14] then into a 230C oven (not cooler) for 1 hour [08:14] the end [08:14] really hot, no faffing, maybe have the chicken up above the roast try and one of those little griddles so the bottom gets crisp too [08:15] and it's by miles the best chicken i've ever had [08:15] cool [08:15] the skin is orgasmic, the flesh is really juicy as it's cooked for a hotter and shorter time so doesn't dry out so much [08:15] and there is so much flavour even yough you have not been making up paprika butter to put under the skin or whatever it is you feel you ought to [08:16] srsly, revelatory [08:16] and so simple [08:16] i am having steak tonight [08:16] just dont chicken out (ha) and do 1.5hrs at 200 or whatever [08:16] 230 [08:16] nom [08:16] 230 is very hot [08:16] is it getting cooked all the way through ? [08:17] you know what else is hot? [08:17] i served it with some baby new potatoes and leeks and carrots which i poached in stock then plasted in a hot pan and butter [08:17] bad your mum jokes [08:17] 230 in a fan assisted oven [08:17] upu - was 78C in the thighs after 1hr [08:17] 73 being the required temp [08:17] sp yep, was perfect [08:17] i was worried to [08:17] don;t be [08:17] so much material in this conversation [08:17] ok fair enough [08:17] 17:47 < eroomde> upu - was 78C in the thighs after 1hr [08:17] upu was 78 degrees in the thighs eh? [08:17] lol [08:17] pretty hot [08:18] i'm doing it today again for some friends over from SF [08:18] when i'm feeling strong enough to resist a bout of salmonella i'll give it a go [08:18] because it means i'll have 2 carcusses for stock [08:18] which it was yum [08:18] will take pictures [08:18] pls do [08:19] don;t be scared it the skin starts looking prematurely brown after 40 mins [08:20] I would be :) [08:20] just relax and open a bottle [08:20] when the chicken comes out, leave it 10 mins to rest but not too covered as that will trap steam and reduce the crisp [08:20] 10-15 mins [08:21] during which time i just did the new potatoes in the stick and juices from the roasting pan [08:21] goddamnit [08:21]