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[07:41] early mornings should be banned :) [07:42] natrium42 (~natrium42@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:43] simhed (~lonek@host86-180-28-241.range86-180.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:45] natrium42 (~natrium42@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Client Quit [08:01] DaveyC (~IceChat7@188-221-51-13.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [08:02] Nick change: DaveyC -> DaveyC_Away [08:26] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: Leaving. [08:26] SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [09:07] junderwood (~John@adsl.jcu.me.uk) joined #highaltitude. [09:08] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving [09:13] DanielRichman (~DanielRic@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [09:14] DanielRichman: aren't you on holiday? [09:14] yeah [09:14] it's like 0914! [09:16] orthodontists [09:16] aah [09:16] I'm wondering if http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9821 could be used in place of ntx2s [09:16] haven't actually looked at a datasheet or indeed anything except the page, and that in little detail [09:18] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-161-48-136.range86-161.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [09:18] I suppose the big question is does it have the relevant certifications(?) to let us use it in the UK [09:18] DanielRichman: certifications are a massive gray area anyway to be honest though [09:18] true [09:19] I was always under the impression that the antenna counted towards the entire thing so should really be certified with an antenna - certainly that's the case in the USA [09:19] jcoxon: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9821 [09:19] n Frequency Range = 240930 MHz [09:19] morning Randomskk [09:19] yeah these have been around for quite a while [09:20] the legalities is a tough one really [09:20] actually it's just the little chip that's of interest really huh [09:20] hmm [09:20] might look at it a bit more later [09:20] for example - if you were to use this on the ground no one would ever ever care [09:22] but in the air is something of a different matter huh [09:22] not really - just people pay a tiny bit more attention [09:22] but in some ways they don't pay any attention [09:22] has anyone ever measured the actual ERP from the ntx2 with a quarter wave? [09:23] not that i know of [09:24] tricky thing to do I imagine [09:33] the module seems to handle all the modulation itself, unlike the ntx2. might not be easy to decode on the ground with regular radios like we do now [09:40] maybe that module is the answer to laurences plans to make a usb radio receiver [09:47] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude. [09:53] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie ! [10:18] m1x10 (~mixio@ppp089210100049.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude. [10:29] good morning jcoxon [10:44] hey m0tek [10:45] morning [10:45] good time in london yesteday? [10:45] yep thanks, was excellent [10:45] great [10:45] good time with g-parents? [10:45] hehe indeed [10:45] managed to escape to a friends birthday party [10:46] hehe :) [10:46] so two birds, 1 stone [10:46] hello there [10:46] very good [10:46] hello m1x10 [10:46] hi m1x10 [10:46] I'm new to the hobby :) [10:47] excellent! [10:47] welcome to #highaltitude [10:47] :-) [10:47] we are less so, so you've come to the right place [10:48] !! [10:48] m1x10, first question is really where are you based? [10:48] where abouts are you based? [10:48] gah too slow [10:48] haha [10:48] greece the country of no ecomonic crisis :) [10:48] I really must learn to touch type [10:49] m1x10, hehe [10:49] m1x10, islands or mainland? [10:49] mainland, north greece, thessaloniki [10:49] cool [10:49] islands only for holidays [10:49] :) [10:50] but this perid no money, no funny :( [10:50] m1x10, well it doesn't need to be an expensive hobby [10:50] I suppose you are Brits? [10:50] ballooning can be cheap fun [10:50] yep [10:50] yeah [10:51] yes, for that hobby I will give anything [10:51] now I'm testing my APRS [10:51] seems to work but I must handle some gps originated bugs [10:52] Im using Radiometrix HX1 144.8 transmitter [10:52] m1x10, radio amateur then? [10:52] excellent that you are using aprs [10:52] sure :) [10:52] what's your call? [10:52] have anyone tested HX1 [10:52] < this is mine [10:52] SW2HYX [10:53] m1x10, we have incredibly restrictive radio licence laws here [10:53] seems hab'ing and amateur radio are quite close :) [10:53] so we only use 70cm currently [10:53] oh [10:53] they complement each other excellently [10:54] so nobody has tested the HX1 there :( [10:54] although I think A Cool Project would be for chase cars to identify themselves over aprs but to also include decoded balloon strings in the aprs payload [10:54] m1x10, i don't think so [10:54] proxy aprs [10:54] radiometrix are great module sthough [10:54] we are big fans of the NTX2 [10:54] I bought it from England, fixed at 144.8 [10:55] frequency? [10:55] but we have had excellent experience with radiometrix's 70cm stuff so I am sure you will be fine [10:55] damn too slow again [10:55] right, touch typing from now on [10:55] i don't touch type as such - more like 3 finger hacker typ [10:55] e [10:55] :) [10:56] since my carpal tunnel I am learning [10:56] what's the freq NTX2 runs at? [10:57] 434.075 or 434.650 [10:57] sometimes we fly balloons with 2 transmitting payloads, one on each frequency [10:58] we did this with a couple of weeks ago [10:58] with 144.8 I get iGated [10:58] pegasus/nova joint flight] [10:58] pegasus :) [10:59] how much does an average flight lasts? [10:59] 2-3 hrs [11:01] oh god, how much I love this modern hobby [11:02] Im planning to add a GSM module as a backup in case the 144.8 fails to transmit when it hits the ground [11:02] good idea [11:02] agreed [11:02] if you casn make it completely stand-alone, so much the better [11:02] oh man that will cost money [11:03] and I dont have !! [11:03] you can use old mobile phones off ebay [11:03] eg nokia 6310 [11:03] they have serial ports [11:03] I have already bought a GMS module from sparkfun [11:03] :) [11:03] I plan to put it on the aprs [11:04] on the payload how do you put the antenna? upwards, downwards or side? [11:05] m1x10, often we use 1/4 with ground plane, facing down [11:06] I also plan to use a servo mechanism in order to turn the antenna downwards when ballon is up and turn it down when its about to crash [11:06] but people have also flown j-poles, slim-jims, bazooka dipoles, big-wheels; all sorts of things [11:06] facing down? and when it hits the ground? [11:07] sory, I made a mistake. turn it UP when its about to crash [11:07] it often lands on its side [11:08] hang on will get you a pic of a payload i madena couple of weeks ago [11:08] hm [11:08] I would like to show me where did u get the parachuts. I really have now idea about this at the moment [11:08] m1x10, http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/ [11:09] the upper left box is the nova 18 payload [11:09] the antenna is housed in the foam insulation tube [11:09] the radials are the black things with yellow tips [11:09] ground plane yeah [11:10] http://imagebin.org/103778 [11:10] thats my aprs [11:10] still building it [11:10] looks great [11:10] nice job [11:10] thx [11:10] love how you've connected the antenna [11:10] another arduino-er then :) [11:10] but your box is awesom [11:10] but your box is awesome [11:10] it's an arduino in that box too [11:11] the 'ferret' tracker built by Randomskk and jonsowman [11:11] wow, yes. Im havents studed electronics and I want some things to be simplified [11:11] lol :0 [11:11] m1x10, what gps is that? [11:11] :) [11:11] ha i know where this is going [11:11] EM-406 from sparkfun [11:11] eek! [11:11] its the most popular [11:11] great gps on the ground but won't work above 24km [11:12] just to warn you [11:12] I know about 18km [11:12] sirfIIIs (such as em406) work up to 24km then break [11:12] hmm, I have a good question now [11:12] shame really as they are very good gps modules - recommend a ublox or lassen instead [11:13] hmmm i can't seem to download gfs data currently [11:13] when you say break you mean it keeps sending from uart but the NMEA it no-fixed? [11:13] is no fixed* [11:15] ublox works above 24km? [11:15] yes [11:15] m1x10, yes they work up to 50km [11:15] 1st yes goes to NMEA ? [11:16] 50km !!!!!!! [11:20] is it possible to get 144.8 signal from high altitude? [11:20] oh definitely [11:21] you have line of sight so it should be loud and clear [11:22] ah, here many hams tell me it's impossible [11:22] but I disagree with them [11:22] m1x10, we have got 434.075 at 10mW from 555km [11:22] 10mW!!!!!!! [11:22] oh man [11:22] thats are max power output [11:22] our* [11:23] so HX1's 300mW would enough for up to 30km height [11:23] FM? [11:23] yes [11:23] should be fine [11:24] NTX is not modulating FM? [11:24] Nick change: DaveyC_Away -> DaveyC [11:25] I will use a high gain yagi antenna from the ground to listen for signals. So I believe it will catch it. [11:25] ublox seems very different from NMEA [11:25] oh ublox output nmea as well [11:26] they also have their own binary protocol [11:26] yes? [11:26] uart interface? [11:26] yep [11:26] they often have 2 uarts [11:26] one does ubx (ublox binary) the other nmea [11:26] can you give me a link of this product? [11:26] if you have a woreking nmea parser already you should just be able to drop the ublox in [11:27] Yes Im ready with my APRS. [11:27] http://www.earthshineelectronics.com/27-falcom-fsa03-gps-module-with-smart-antenna.html [11:27] http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=1000&view=normal [11:27] *but* you need to put it into its 'airborne' mode to get the 50km altitude limit [11:27] you can do that over the uart [11:27] http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03 [11:28] well, if I decide to put use it and find money I will buy it. [11:28] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds [11:29] 35pounds is 42 euros [11:29] hmm [11:30] might be able to get it locally [11:30] strange is too cheap cause EM-406A is more expensive [11:31] the person who runs that shop is involved with UK ballooning [11:31] so its a good deal [11:32] nice [11:32] brennen (~brennen@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [11:32] what about parachutes? [11:32] once you k ow your payload mass, pick a parachute of the right size [11:32] know* [11:33] we usually aim for a sea-level descent rate of 5m/s [11:33] I dont think I will find parachute shops in GR [11:33] Im also concerned about water..must build something waterproof [11:33] :) [11:33] Is there any online shop you know for parachutes? [11:34] those seal-able 'tuppareware' boxes are good for that [11:34] m1x10, we use aeroconn systems, though shipping is slow [11:34] but hobby rocketry shops are the best places in general as they use parachutes of similar sizes [11:36] thanks from the info. I found aeroconn online. [11:36] If you plan holidays in GR let me know :) [11:36] it will be a lot fun ! [11:37] how old r u? [11:38] 23 [11:38] you? [11:38] 25 just finished from university as software engineer [11:39] now must go 1 year army :) [11:39] better :( [11:39] i just finished too [11:39] although no army [11:39] aahh [11:39] I should live there to escape from army ! [11:40] I'm thinking of going to australia [11:40] for what? [11:40] work? [11:42] PhD [11:42] nice, what's your studies? [11:42] signal processing and control theory [11:42] hehe awesome [11:42] so i did two years of general engineering then two years of specialised [11:43] Have you ever heard about Brune university? [11:43] no? [11:43] hmm its in england [11:43] Brunel perhaps? [11:43] I'm not very good at knowing about other places in general [11:43] oh Brunel? [11:44] yes Brunel ! [11:44] is it good? [11:44] Cause my teachers proposed me to do a Master [11:44] yes, excellent for engineering and product design, I understand [11:44] my master's was the best year of education I've ever had [11:44] highly recommend it [11:44] I can do the brunel studies here [11:45] engineering on what? [11:46] telecomunication? software? [11:46] me? [11:46] no Brunel [11:46] :) [11:46] afraid I don't know [11:46] you said its excellent for engineering. On what ? [11:46] ok [11:47] i forget other places have different engineering courses - our degree course made you do all types of engineering then let you specialise [11:47] brennen (~brennen@68-64-214-18.static.forethought.net) joined #highaltitude. [11:47] :) [11:48] how tall is the your ground plane antenna? [11:49] I have a 80cm diamond RH789.http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/rh789.html [11:49] Is it a good choice for balloning? [11:49] we make outs just out of wire [11:50] haha [11:50] more flexible that way [11:50] and cheaper [11:51] Im very new to HAM and in general electronics so I don't have that much knowlegde and I prefer something ready. [11:51] we often make the antennas like that because they need to be soft [11:52] so you don't poke someone's eye out [11:52] and we use drinking straws or foam to help them keep their shape [11:54] hmm [11:55] do you also notify the local airtraffic service? [11:56] yes, although greek regulations will probably be different [11:56] sure [11:56] I hope I dont finish the project and they wont let me !! [11:57] I will travel to UK then to do it. haha. [11:59] m0tek, I going afk. C ya later. [11:59] Nick change: m1x10 -> m1x10^Afk [12:00] m1x10^Afk, good to talk to you, see you later. i am also edmoore or eroomde, depending on which irc client i use. we are all the same person [12:01] that makes me sound sectionable [12:01] hehe, i'd need another opnion to properly section you [12:01] :-p [12:01] you have the power though? [12:01] wow [12:02] yeah i could emergency section someone [12:03] under Section 4 of the mental health act for 72hrs [12:03] that's like a superpower [12:03] however if i did it i would be under quite a bit of scruitany to prove the reasons why i did it [12:04] especially as a junior [12:05] hmm how should I go about testing the radiometrix transceiver's temperature/frequency drift in a controlled environment? just put it in a box and then -> freezer? [12:07] yep [12:07] if you have a decent temp sensor, maybe epoxied to the radiometrix, log temp and freq against time [12:07] on that note [12:08] my internal temp sensor on BH5 [12:08] wondering where to place it [12:08] i guess the pcb [12:08] as you're not really interested in the temp of anything other than what the electronics are feeling, rish? [12:08] on alien we stood the through hole temp sensor off the pcb a bit so that it wasn't in contact too much [12:09] might be fun to put one in ballast tank actually [12:09] I have a few DS18S20s spare m0tek but I don't think I'll be able to epoxy it to the radiometrix [12:09] well see if you can get it close enough to be roughly representative [12:10] m0tek, external ballast tank this time [12:12] ok cool [12:12] just uploading pics [12:13] am looking forward to seeing! [12:14] http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/sets/72157624376182662/ [12:14] tank isn't currently fully assembled [12:16] it's very pretty [12:16] and hell is pretty funky too [12:16] although more sloped than usual? [12:16] yeah its a timing issue [12:17] i can't seem to get it right, it goes the other way if i'm not careful [12:17] lol [12:17] consierin [12:17] considering its a Coxon TM implementation it probably won't work [12:18] seems to be working in the picture [12:18] Upu (~Upu@78.32.54.241) joined #highaltitude. [12:18] yeah but i fear ta [12:18] ooh where'd ya get the gold foil? [12:18] ouch bad typing [12:18] i fear that when it gets cold the timing will go off even more [12:20] fsphil, decathalon [12:20] survival space blanket [12:20] looks pretty 1337 doesn't it [12:20] it certainly does [12:20] i've been a little swayed by your silver insulation ed [12:22] my insulation brings all the boys to the yard [12:23] just hope this damn payload works this time [12:23] just tested the BH4 scenario of recovering from losing gps fix during ballast dump [12:24] oh, where you able to reproduce the fault? [12:24] i just dumped the lassen and moved to the ublox [12:24] now got code that kills teh ballast drop if it loses lock for too long [12:24] so that i can recover [12:39] having to re-set airborne mode [12:39] ... on the ublox, after a reset or power cycle, is probably worth noting [12:40] yeah when i get round to it i'm going to write a function to check what mode it is in [12:44] Upu (~Upu@78.32.54.241) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [12:49] Upu (~Upu@78.32.54.241) joined #highaltitude. [13:07] [STAR]Atanyi|MnG (~Upu@78.32.54.241) joined #highaltitude. [13:10] Upu (~Upu@78.32.54.241) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [13:12] [STAR]Atanyi|MnG (~Upu@78.32.54.241) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [13:20] So as the transmitter gets colder we expect it to shift in frequency... but the shift also change? [13:20] * frequency overall [13:20] yes [13:21] hmm that's what I'm worried about [13:21] the shift change is quite small [13:21] and only when very cold [13:21] dl-fldig has custom shift [13:22] oh rtty will be fine; it's the domex that might die horribly [13:23] how long you planning to be up there [13:23] most missions if well insulated won't get that cold [13:23] oh just a standard flight [13:23] insulate well and stick hte radio above the batteries [13:24] or near the camera [13:24] you don't think I need to test this in the freezer then? [13:24] test test test [13:24] :P [13:25] i think i might package my fake gps data for people to use [13:25] Action: jcoxon has been running scenarios all day [13:27] Nick change: m1x10^Afk -> m1x10 [13:28] jcoxon: do u have an online link with a place that sells space blankets? [13:28] m1x10, any camping / outdoor shop should stock them [13:28] I'm gonna try the local sports shop for those [13:29] oh ok ! [13:29] Action: fsphil is sold on the gold [13:29] they sometimes call them survival blankets [13:29] :):) [13:34] The leisure centre I was in had a fire drill while I was up swimming, they had us all out the back in those blankets -- they work really well! [13:36] :P [13:39] DanielRichman (~DanielRic@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [13:42] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [13:42] Upu (~Upu@78.32.54.241) joined #highaltitude. [13:55] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-161-48-136.range86-161.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving [14:13] m1x10 (~mixio@ppp089210100049.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [14:19] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [14:52] DarkCow (~DarkCow@78.32.173.145) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [14:52] DarkCow (~DarkCow@78.32.173.145) joined #highaltitude. [15:13] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [15:14] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [15:23] juxta_ (~blah@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude. [15:24] rjmunro (~chatzilla@host81-136-206-155.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:31] m1x10 (~mixio@ppp089210100049.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude. [15:53] Hiena (~Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude. [16:18] juxta_ (~blah@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [16:23] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [16:33] juxta_ (~blah@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude. [16:34] jasonb (~jasonb@m350536d0.tmodns.net) joined #highaltitude. [16:40] juxta_ (~blah@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds [16:45] gonzo_ (~gonzo_@cpc1-pool8-0-0-cust154.sotn.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Quit: (Connection reset by beer) [16:56] Upu (~Upu@78.32.54.241) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [17:00] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [17:00] Upu (~Upu@78.32.54.241) joined #highaltitude. [17:07] DanielRichman (~DanielRic@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [17:11] d'oh, my new ft-817nd came with euro charger [17:11] any old 12V thing that fits will do [17:12] but congrats on purchase! [17:12] ty :) [17:12] this is my second :) [17:12] worth making a decent battery pack for it too [17:12] ah right [17:12] yea the internal battery is a bit weak [17:13] lipo for the win [17:16] the ic-7000 was very tempting, but I couldn't justify the cost :) [17:19] m0tek: I found a survival blanket. Can u check if it's ok for us? [17:19] link is: http://www.vasilikos.com.gr/index.php?MODULE=bce/application/pages&Branch=N_N0000000002_N0000002001_N0000002457_P0000001851 [17:19] ack, I forgot about that - was suppose to run down the town and pick up one [17:21] or this one: http://www.survival.gr/product_info.php?products_id=367 [17:34] jasonb (~jasonb@m350536d0.tmodns.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [17:37] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [17:38] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [17:43] simon__ (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [17:43] Simon-MPFH (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [17:48] simon__ (~simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving [17:50] rjmunro (~chatzilla@host81-136-206-155.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds [18:07] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude. [18:09] gb73d (gb73d@80-42-47-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude. [18:22] jasonb (~jasonb@dsl092-009-225.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #highaltitude. [18:29] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [18:39] timbobel (~timboebl@212-127-200-229.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #highaltitude. [18:39] evening [18:52] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [18:55] N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [19:11] jcoxon (~jcoxon@88-110-214-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude. [19:11] evening jcoxon [19:12] evening [19:16] bbl [19:16] jcoxon (~jcoxon@88-110-214-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving [19:23] m1x10 (~mixio@ppp089210100049.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: [19:29] m1x10 (~mixio@ppp089210100049.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude. [19:31] DanielRichman (~DanielRic@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [19:32] DanielRichman (~daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [19:36] natrium42 (~natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude. [19:54] m0tek (~ed@88-202-206-61.rdns.as8401.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving [20:12] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54885A83.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude. [20:12] hello [20:12] and good evening [20:12] Lunar Lander hehe :) [20:12] it is good to see you all again :) [20:13] you plan to land a balloon on moon ?!?! [20:14] that would be the project of the millenium [20:14] yes it would, but I only have my nick because I use it for years now [20:14] :) [20:14] how much room is there to go higher than average - what are the technical constraints [20:15] -expert question- [20:16] whats the theoretical max alt for balloon [20:18] hard to say [20:18] depends on which balloon you use and the amount of gas [20:18] helium is expensive ! [20:20] >50km has been done [20:20] wow, any photos or website? [20:21]