[00:01] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) left irc: "Leaving" [00:02] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@81.135.101.221) left irc: "Leaving" [00:08] jcoxon_ (n=jcoxon@host81-135-101-221.range81-135.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving" [00:16] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc: [00:17] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude. [00:17] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc: Client Quit [00:36] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude. [00:44] I called the civil aviation authority here, it seems approval for launch is on a case by case basis rather than sticking to their predefined legislation, which is good news [00:48] solexious (n=quassel@cyarnold.vps.bitfolk.com) joined #highaltitude. [00:51] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [01:22] GeekShadow (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [02:44] grummund_ (n=grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) joined #highaltitude. [02:46] grummund (n=grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [05:29] juxta (i=fourtytw@219-90-142-45.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) [07:07] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) left irc: Remote closed the connection [07:16] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [07:48] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host81-135-101-221.range81-135.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [08:48] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude. [10:00] morning everyone [10:03] Action: SpeedEvil finds that it is in fact morning. [10:03] Action: SpeedEvil blames MikeMc. [10:03] :O [10:06] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host81-135-101-221.range81-135.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving" [10:12] anyone live in or near Manchester? [10:13] Action: SpeedEvil is far from that fair city. [10:25] i wanted to know if they had an iMax cinema in Manchester [11:04] rjharrison (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude. [11:08] juxta (i=fourtytw@219-90-142-45.ip.adam.com.au) joined #highaltitude. [11:20] jasonb (n=jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [11:56] jasonb (n=jasonb@66.124.73.250) joined #highaltitude. [13:14] evening all [13:59] bt42 (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude. [14:04] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host81-135-101-221.range81-135.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [14:20] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: No route to host [14:25] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host81-135-101-221.range81-135.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving" [14:48] Laurenceb (n=laurence@hosts-137-205-164-66.phys.warwick.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [14:48] hi [14:50] hi Laurenceb :) [14:50] hi [14:50] anyone see RocketBoy on children in need? [14:50] nope [14:50] Action: juxta finally found a working download for yagimax [14:51] Action: Laurenceb managed to bear watching an hour before giving up [14:51] Action: SpeedEvil hasn't watched TV for a few months now. [14:51] Well - more like a year I spose [14:51] Laurenceb: I tried to watch the clip on youtube, but I can't watch it in Australia [14:51] thats daft [14:51] yeah - the video is restricted to users in the UK it seems [14:51] I mean sure it doesnt come out of your taxes, but its excessive [14:52] you're supposed to pay some sort of TV license in the UK, aren't you? [14:52] I was watching top gear last night [14:52] yes [14:52] I watched top gear also, this morning, which I guess was your last night ;p [14:52] they made a "hybrid car" with a deisel generator and some parts from a milk float [14:53] that one? [14:54] yep :) [14:54] 'geoff' [14:54] or hamerhead eagle ithrust, or something along those lines ;p [14:55] there was a shot of my old house [14:55] oh nice :) [14:55] - me used to like on Banbury road Oxford [14:55] *live [14:55] about 100m down from where they broke down and had to recharge [14:55] hehe [14:56] that was kind of embarrassing [14:56] they could have moved it off the road [14:56] I was interested in the costs of hybridisng my car. [14:56] But the batteries are prohibitive. [14:57] Annoyingly apparanrly a few months ago a123 cells were going very cheap on ebay. [14:57] I've heard a bit about the dewalt cells going cheap [14:57] Not those [14:57] the raw unpackaged cells [14:58] i'm off to bed, night guys [14:58] cya [14:58] http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/80-Pcs-New-A123-3-3v-2300-mah-Lithium-Ion-Battery-Cell_W0QQitemZ180434153521QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a02b6b031 [14:58] About a third of that price [14:58] Action: Laurenceb has been working on some doppler shift apogee prediction code [14:59] its kind of works - I think its possible to make it work [14:59] Is this with one reciever? [14:59] yes [14:59] Do two sites help much? [15:00] I was using a metropolis algorithm technique [15:00] havent tried yet, Id guess a lot [15:00] I think its a case of using the right algorithm [15:00] yeah [15:00] it tends to get stuck in states that give a fairly good fit, but arent correct [15:01] they are local minima in the matching function and it cant find its way out [15:01] You're doing what - simulating with added noise? [15:01] yes [15:01] about +-0.1 m/s standard error [15:01] Are the bad states far from the good one? [15:01] - guassian noise [15:02] about 20m/s in most cases [15:02] if you're happy to have errors <100m/s then it always works [15:02] well... sometimes it never reaches a good solution [15:02] Generally not so useful. [15:03] Remind me again why you're not just using GPS on the top, and sending the position? [15:03] yeah you can get down to about 1m/s error with 0.1m/s errors on the dopplers [15:03] Oh - a mass thing [15:03] it will lock up due to speed [15:03] as well [15:03] Well - yes - stock GPSs [15:03] you could use a gps bitgrapper and downlink the data [15:04] How many bytes of a sample do you need [15:04] then solve on the ground [15:04] yeah [15:04] 1024 bits or so [15:04] may be enough to make it possible [15:04] I just like the simplicity of single station doppler [15:04] as there no extra hardware needed [15:05] hmm [15:05] yeah [15:05] well - other than a txco of some sort. [15:05] I think its possible if you divide state space into boxes [15:05] position is known fairly well and isnt that important to the shape [15:05] juxta (i=fourtytw@219-90-142-45.ip.adam.com.au) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [15:05] Two sites seems likely to be an easy fix. [15:05] you can have +-10Km [15:06] then with +-10m/s it seems to converge ok [15:06] I was getting +-1.5m/s with that [15:06] hmm [15:06] what's 1.56m/s error 10kmish? [15:06] on the perigee? [15:11] I suppose more like 2 [15:19] it can survive with 50m/s vertical v error [15:19] but theres the pointing error to consider [15:25] if this can be made to work it could be useful with GPS [15:25] add an IMU and you could have single satellite GPS [15:32] junderwood (n=chatzill@adsl.jcu.me.uk) joined #highaltitude. [15:32] actually I saw something like this in the journal of navigation [15:33] anyone ever tried PSK31 on a balloon? [15:33] only they had the gps correct the IMU for stray magnetism ect. when there was a good fix [15:33] PSK31 is hard [15:33] yeh it is [15:33] as you need to create the right phase shift [15:34] not possible with radiometrix modules [15:34] hmm [15:34] just looking into it a bit, wondering if it was possible with reasonably simple hardware [15:34] might be possible by fudging some registers in a chipcon transceiver [15:34] I've got dominoex working [15:34] with a radiometrix [15:35] hmm interesting [15:36] CU spaceflight have made a chipcon based transceiver [15:36] - "badger cub" [15:36] yup im part of CUSF - been doing some work on badgercub [15:37] might have a further look into PSK at some point [15:37] not convinced its really worth it over RTTY though [15:37] oh sorry [15:37] I lose track of poeple on here :P [15:37] ah me too, no worries [15:38] ive only just come to cambridge, so its a recent thing [15:38] PSK is nice to decode as you can use a PLL [15:38] - phase socked loop [15:38] *locked [15:38] yep [15:38] the FT817 etc have PSK31 modes inbuilt i believe [15:39] its the transmitter thats the hard bit... [15:39] I suspect theres a way to do it with a chipcon [15:40] if you kept the daud rate low you could just use your existing technique of changing the carrier [15:40] *baud [15:40] Will talk to fergus and ed about it at the next CUSF meeting [15:40] would be a nice thing to get working [15:42] MikeMc (n=quassel@62.56.69.163) left irc: Remote closed the connection [15:44] anyone had a problem with the microtrak and/or lassen transmitting the same coordinates regardless of where it is? [15:45] we launched a balloon yesterday and after the launch it was transmitting the same coordinates as the launch site for about an hour and then all of a sudden started transmitting correctly [15:45] Did it indicate it had lock? [15:47] I'd have to look at the transmission logs, typically when it doesn't I get null data [15:49] Does it also say how many sats it has? [15:49] You're sure you're not doing something that buffers the outgoing stream until it passes checks, and sends that, forex? [15:49] So if it goes wrong you will resend till you get a good pos [15:50] I wasn't doing any buffering, I just have the lassen connected directly to the microtrak, I don't think the microtrak buffers though [15:52] we've been testing that rig for a couple months, yesterday was the first time I've seen it transmit the same coords like that though [15:55] odd [15:56] yeah, I'll have to do some more testing to see if I can reproduce that [15:56] Get the payload back? [16:09] http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=308 [16:09] natrium42: I'm going to have to report you [16:10] russss (n=russ@unaffiliated/russss) got netsplit. [16:10] jontyw (n=jontyw@jonty.co.uk) got netsplit. [16:10] russss (n=russ@80.68.91.217) joined #highaltitude. [16:10] jontyw (n=jontyw@jonty.co.uk) returned to #highaltitude. [16:17] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) joined #highaltitude. [16:27] ms7821 (n=Mark@78.86.165.225) left irc: Nick collision from services. [16:27] ms7821 (n=Mark@flat.ms) joined #highaltitude. [16:51] sbasuita, what up? [16:51] !!!!!!!! you guys [16:51] http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=305 [16:52] tl;dr: $100 free stuff from sparkfun [16:52] neat [16:53] woah, nice [16:53] up to $100,000 total expenditure by sparkfun, e.g. like a thousand orders [16:53] so get in early :P [16:54] it's pretty slow to load [16:55] it's not today [16:55] no rush [16:55] ah ok [16:55] wonder how much business they do [16:55] the page didn't load fully enough for me to realise that. [16:55] guess the idea is to raise publicity [16:55] AlexBreton, coursework [16:55] it's 9AM to 11PM, mountain standard time, Jan 7th 2010 [16:55] three factors [16:55] my birthday! :) [16:55] first they feel like giving stuff out for free? apparently they did pretty well in 2009 [16:56] second they say they wish they could sponsor more groups but can't so are doing this instead [16:56] finally they want a good way to load test their new server [16:56] oh, and it's their 7th birthday [16:56] sbasuita, not really [16:56] get on spotify [17:22] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [17:24] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection [17:26] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [17:39] bittwist (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) joined #highaltitude. [17:44] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@99.38.181.246) joined #highaltitude. [17:47] bt42 (n=a@unaffiliated/bittwist) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [18:00] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) joined #highaltitude. [18:04] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@99.38.181.246) left irc: [18:17] jasonb (n=jasonb@66.124.73.250) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [18:28] edmoore (n=ed@chu-gw.churchillcambridge.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [18:28] edmoore (n=ed@chu-gw.churchillcambridge.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection [18:31] Laurenceb: huh? [18:31] thats where you live isnt it? [18:31] yeah, rofl [18:31] wtf [18:32] thats what you would say ;P [18:32] XD [18:34] bbl [18:54] jasonb (n=jasonb@m4c0536d0.tmodns.net) joined #highaltitude. [18:58] Nick change: smealum -> prout [18:59] Nick change: prout -> smealum [19:37] natrium42 (n=natrium4@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: [19:54] 1/4 wave antenna elements: just solid core copper wire, that would have otherwise been put to use breadboarding, rjharrison ? [19:54] *have [20:00] bbl [20:00] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: Remote closed the connection [20:01] sbasuita, are you going to revise for phys test? [20:01] AlexBreton, in the morning I guess [20:01] #1 wasteman at his best [20:02] AlexBreton, after coursework I'll obviously cba any other work [20:02] fatty :P [20:02] hmmm...I may as well revise now [20:02] jasonb (n=jasonb@m4c0536d0.tmodns.net) left irc: Connection timed out [20:05] the lassen iq still considered a fairly good gps or is there something better to use? [20:08] jasonb (n=jasonb@dsl027-180-244.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #highaltitude. [20:12] jiffe1, the lassen is pretty common for normal balloon use but I've heard of high performance ublox gps being used as well [20:27] cool [20:28] the lassen seems to work alright, only thing I don't like is the fact that it doesn't take interference very well and seems to take a long time to track in [20:29] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude. [20:37] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude. [20:54] MikeMc (n=quassel@dyn-62-56-69-163.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [20:55] hello all [21:02] MikeMc, hallo [21:03] hey [21:06] DanielRichman (i=4e92c56b@gateway/web/freenode/x-quojuyjkuarxnnbd) joined #highaltitude. [21:07] Okey: got some solid core breadboardin' wire here. Looks like there's a brown core; copper; but the outside is silver - i'd imagine tin. Antenna-worthy? [21:08] Laurenceb (n=laurence@hosts-137-205-164-66.phys.warwick.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) [21:09] works fine [21:10] Groovy. And the length of the radials doesn't matter that much? [21:10] just the driven element should be roughly 16.4 ish [21:10] DanielRichman, the more radials the better, infinite length preferably [21:10] infinite length can be heavy [21:10] true [21:11] while we're at it, let's go travel faster than the speed of light [21:11] safe [21:11] So what's the optimum lambda/4 length for copper? [21:12] how straight does this wire have to be? [21:13] DanielRichman, staple it to the polystyrene? [21:14] ..? [21:15] just straightish [21:20] ok. and how would i best test how well the antenna works, once i've made it? [21:21] Place it on a balloon, launch, check range [21:21] Or a hill/... [21:21] (!) [21:21] :P [21:21] DanielRichman, you know the blog has had over 2000 views? [21:21] wat? [21:21] With a 100/1 power divider or something [21:21] not in one day -.- [21:22] DanielRichman, no, but still [21:22] that's nothing then [21:22] measure in visits/day [21:23] DanielRichman, it gets maybe a dozen a day [21:23] DanielRichman, which is good considering we never post ;P [21:23] mmm [21:25] DanielRichman, how well is the stuff inside secured? [21:26] pretty damn well [21:26] nothing moves if i shake [21:26] DanielRichman, how? [21:27] ? [21:29] juxta (i=fourtytw@219.90.142.45) joined #highaltitude. [21:31] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving" [21:41] sbasuita (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: "Leaving" [21:49] natrium42 (n=natrium4@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude. [21:51] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [22:07] blog got over 50 hits today [22:07] yesterday 64 [22:07] still below 9000 [22:07] true [22:07] we'll get there in the end ;-) [22:07] updates go a long way :D [22:08] hackaday is always good for a few thousand once you launch [22:08] just make sure to use an arduino XD [22:08] at the risk of commentards going "omg its been done bfore wtf lulz" [22:08] we have a bid on the CF card [22:08] OK, 99p [22:08] the start price [22:09] but 9 days left [22:09] you are this patient? [22:09] it's eBay [22:09] yeah, but you don't have to choose auctions with that much time left :P [22:10] it doesn't really make that much of a difference in the final price [22:10] Action: natrium42 prefers Buy It Now anyway [22:14] DanielRichman (i=4e92c56b@gateway/web/freenode/x-quojuyjkuarxnnbd) left irc: "Page closed" [22:21] MikeMc (n=quassel@dyn-62-56-69-163.dslaccess.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection [22:24] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) joined #highaltitude. [22:27] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc: [22:29] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) joined #highaltitude. [22:29] AlexBreton (n=Alexande@client-80-5-41-1.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) left irc: Client Quit [22:36] Xenion (n=robert@p57972AF0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude. [22:37] Nick change: grummund_ -> grummund [22:44] edmoore (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [22:49] DanielRichman (n=daniel@unaffiliated/danielrichman) left irc: "Leaving" [23:14] edmoore (n=ed@pluto.trinhall.cam.ac.uk) left irc: [23:20] junderwood (n=chatzill@adsl.jcu.me.uk) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.15/2009101601]" [23:22] RocketBoy (n=Steve@217.47.75.8) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [23:49] Xenion (n=robert@p57972AF0.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection [23:57] Nick change: grummund -> grummund|pedant [00:00] --- Tue Nov 24 2009