[00:13] SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Connection timed out [00:28] http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/ [00:28] [00:28] I'm a bit worried by that [00:33] Right, steer clear of Birmingham for a while... [00:48] ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [01:05] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host81-154-154-237.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection [01:47] Nick change: ShellEvil -> SpeedEvil [02:06] SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Remote closed the connection [02:12] ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [02:15] ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Remote closed the connection [02:21] ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [02:46] Nick change: ShellEvil -> SpeedEvil [03:04] nicros (n=craver@ip65-44-113-2.z113-44-65.customer.algx.net) got netsplit. [03:04] ybit2 (i=ybit@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu) got netsplit. 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[18:59] natrium42 (n=natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [19:04] SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [19:17] ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [19:27] GeekShadow (n=Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude. [19:53] Finally - 3G modem works. [19:53] When on a 4m bamboo pole. [19:53] I need to try to find somewhere more reasonable [19:53] Or put it with an antenna with some gain [20:41] natrium42 (n=natrium@CPE000625d867e2-CM0014045885be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #highaltitude. [20:56] edmoore (i=836f0142@gateway/web/freenode/x-mfnvlwxchadunhoc) left irc: Ping timeout: 180 seconds [21:02] fuzzylugnuts (n=hush@c-68-34-212-42.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude. [21:02] Hey [21:03] you folks so wise in the ways of serial [21:04] Indeed. [21:04] at what level does xon/off flow control work? [21:04] I've recently murdered 8. [21:04] software. [21:04] can I use it half duplex on a 3 wire serial line? [21:06] yes [21:06] half duplex? [21:06] you mean only listening or sending at any one time? [21:07] yes [21:07] Not reliably [21:08] how so [21:08] as in, what makes you say that [21:09] Laurenceb (n=laurence@host81-154-154-237.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [21:09] hi [21:09] laurentium! [21:12] fuzzylugnuts: because you can't - in general do that - unless you have a protocol round it [21:12] which xon/xoff supplies, if I understand it correctly [21:13] fuzzylugnuts: for example - you send xon when you have finished sending a packet - and start to listen - and don't stop listening till you get xoff [21:13] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude. [21:13] hmmm [21:13] Hi all [21:13] It doesn't work in the case that either side may want to send data [21:13] so it depends on the 0 data loss [21:13] Hi RJ [21:13] Just used my oscilloscope in earnest [21:13] :O [21:13] yo fuzzylugnuts [21:14] fuzzylugnuts: as if both are allowed to transmit - they both chose the same time to start sending xon - you get both sides talking, and neither listening [21:14] Francis Rogallo died :( [21:14] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Rogallo [21:14] ShellEvil: this would be used for a serial terminal [21:15] so no transmission would go unprompted [21:15] :/ [21:15] Laurenceb: Did his canopy fold? [21:15] he was 97 [21:15] My PWM wasn't working and I used the scope to work out that the wrong pre scaller was at work [21:15] 1 not 8 :) [21:16] fuzzylugnuts: if each side sends xon before, and xoff after - and doesn't send until it gets an xon - it works [21:16] hmmm [21:16] fuzzylugnuts: but that means that one side can never notiy the other of data [21:17] fuzzylugnuts: and both sides have to continually actively turn round the line. [21:17] that doesn't sound righ [21:17] fuzzylugnuts: what are you trying to do [21:18] deal with flow control issues with a wireless terminal [21:18] There are several ways. [21:18] http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus/pwm/servo-pwm.jpg [21:19] Syncronised cocks, every 0.1-0.5th second side A transmits - every 0.6-1th second side B transmits [21:19] ...teehee [21:19] Scopes are so hadny [21:19] shell... thats not really practical [21:19] I like the fact that it does all the cals for you eg 50Hz and 20ms [21:19] calcs [21:20] fuzzylugnuts: It depends on your situation. [21:20] ok, maybe I best explain this more [21:20] Was it a dark and stormy night? [21:21] Was it the best of times, the worst of times? [21:21] Yeah, and it was all dark and grainy, and a pinabll machine was involved [21:21] Had the lawn just eaten its first robin of the spring? [21:21] you know the serial ports on the gumstix, the 3wire ones? [21:21] no [21:21] ok [21:21] what are you trying to do [21:21] its basically a tty on a 3 wire serial port [21:22] yes - I am familiar with the concept of 3 wire serial ports [21:22] ok cool. [21:22] that's on my balloon. on the ground I have my computer with some manner of terminal program. [21:23] between them is the transcievers, who can only act half duplex [21:23] if one is transmitting while the other does, data is lost [21:23] how is transmitting done - is it just if there is any data on the tx line? [21:24] yep, any data sent to the buffer in the transciever is automatically transmitted [21:24] so, what I need is some sort of flow control to keep it from transmitting while data is comiing in [21:24] xon/xoff looked hopeful [21:24] since I can't use RTS/CTS [21:24] er dtr and co [21:25] You can do that on the bottom end to a degree. [21:25] bottom end? [21:25] Code your gumsitx thing to always leave a gap of 0.5s after a transmit. [21:25] whenever it sends any serial data at all [21:25] on the bottom end - you have a little monostable triggered from the rx line. [21:26] If it hasn't seen any transmissions in 0.1s - it toggles the flow control to enable the PC to transmit [21:26] For 0.3s or so [21:27] this is transparent to the software on the bottom end - and just means that you add a check when you send a byte from the gumstix if it is over 0.5s after the last byte sent - if not you wait [21:27] Or you just do this in software - it's not hard [21:28] If one side is themaster, one side is the slave - then the flow control issue doesn't arise [21:29] hmm [21:30] I might be able to add a lag to the tty [21:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@81.187.157.65) left irc: "Leaving" [21:35] if an xon/off packet is lost due to signal loss.. it would screw everthging up right? [21:37] yes [21:37] you'd wait forever - or suffer a collision [21:38] ok [21:38] hmm. [21:39] one of the main problems that I've run into is when you type a charachter in a console, it sends the char back as an echo, so you have to type really slow [21:39] or you start colliding [21:44] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #highaltitude. [21:47] fuzzylugnuts can't you turn off echoing [21:48] I think so [21:48] bbiab [21:48] Ok [21:48] rjharrison_ (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc: [21:48] I kinda like seeing what I'm typing though [21:49] hmm. [21:49] we'll see [21:49] you can turn on local echo on many termianl programs [21:49] Yeah [21:49] that would be great [21:49] also - you're just complicating your life by using a normal terminal program [21:50] I don't plan to [21:50] not for the ground station [21:50] just using getty for the balloon [21:58] ah well [21:58] we'll see [22:04] ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left #highaltitude. [22:05] ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude. [22:07] fuzzylugnuts (n=hush@c-68-34-212-42.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) left irc: "drinks and 9" [22:30] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@adsl-63-197-2-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) left irc: [22:50] simon_MPFH (n=simon@tiger.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection [23:23] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@32.153.189.133) joined #highaltitude. [23:36] sbasuita_ (n=sbasuita@unaffiliated/drebellion) left irc: "Quit" [23:54] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@32.153.189.133) left irc: No route to host [23:59] ChezaWho (n=chezawho@32.157.184.87) joined #highaltitude. [00:00] --- Sat Sep 12 2009