[00:18] do rc plane lipo cells (high discharge) have lower energy densities? [00:18] yeah [00:21] Nick change: fuzzylugnuts -> fuzzywet [00:27] http://www2.dem.inpe.br/hkk/2007/COBEM2007-1982-Walter.pdf [00:27] edmoore: ^ [00:36] Nick change: fuzzywet -> fuzzylugnuts [00:46] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc: [01:05] this is interesting as well http://openuav.astroplanes.com/library/docs/LTU-EX-00081-SE.pdf [01:05] not very well written in places [01:05] A123 cells for the highest power density. [01:06] I'm interesting in energy [01:06] http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=157 [01:07] energy density, you're looking at li-po [01:07] Or Li-S if you can obtain it, which you can't. [01:07] I'll probably get that one I linked [01:07] I've got some rc plane chargers to charge it with [01:08] That's what - 7Wh in 35g, or 210Wh/Kg/ [01:08] ? [01:09] something like [01:09] hello [01:09] my charger here is ~1 amp [01:09] well, as some of you may know, tonight I was sitting my radio amateur exam [01:09] that will be ok? [01:09] which... [01:09] gordonjcp: did you have a breakdown, and write 'Fish' all over the paper? [01:09] so it will charge at about 0.5C [01:09] I have passed [01:09] :) [01:09] with 100% [01:09] Laurenceb_: should be fine - if it's an actuall lithium charger. [01:10] I've *never* got 100% on a test in my life [01:10] Easy? [01:10] yeah, it does trickle charging and all the works [01:10] ShellEvil: it was a bit [01:11] just doesnt go <1A charge [01:11] gordonjcp: well done :D [01:11] Laurenceb_: ty [01:11] right time for some sleep [01:11] http://openuav.astroplanes.com/library/ <-- if your after something to read :P [01:12] cya all [01:12] Laurenceb_ (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-235.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc: [01:12] Wave. [01:32] wooo [01:32] fuzzylugnuts: you've achieved cold fusion? [01:32] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) left irc: Remote closed the connection [01:32] icez (n=icez@unaffiliated/icez) joined #highaltitude. [01:32] oh... did you find a youtube comment? [01:33] or were you looking at my web page? [01:35] ShellEvil: and btw, I have a hardon for the A123's. LifeBatt puts out some bigger capacity ones [01:35] http://lifebatt.com/ [01:37] No - random comments. [01:37] Yeah - but can I buy one. [01:37] Or ten. [01:37] ? [01:38] A123s? [01:38] no - lifebat [01:38] of course [01:38] if you have the cash [01:38] they come in 3.3v, 10Ah cells that make up their packs [01:39] low charge current [01:39] 12V 40Ah runs $910 [01:39] hmm? low charge current? [01:39] 3C [01:39] oh [01:42] they are still very groovy. [01:42] I'd like to buy just the cells [01:45] http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WE-REBUILD-YOUR-36-VOLT-DEWALT-LITHIUM-BATTERY-DC9360_W0QQitemZ280264046464QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280264046464&_trkparms=72%3A12|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 [01:45] I wonder if they can get it. [01:45] A123 cells. [01:46] IIRC they're only really selling to dewalt. [01:47] you can buy developer kits straight from A123, but its cheaper to jus tpull them out of the dewalt 36V packs [01:47] the Black & Decker VPX packs contain 1.1Ah A123s [01:47] yeah. [01:48] Which aren't sold in the UK. [01:48] ah, lame [01:49] Oh, btw. I got some hot melt glue to mess with. [01:49] I'm trying to get my hot-melt thread roller working. [01:49] I have done some tests on foil with really good results. [01:50] 15um foil, joined by a 0.2mm dia thread of glue ironed flat. [01:50] yeah? it holds well? [01:50] Was getting about 80Kg/m of strength per bond. [01:50] In peel. [01:50] Not even in shear. [01:50] that'll do [01:50] Which is _well_ over what's needed. [01:51] it would be so much easier than using tape. [01:52] And foil balloons aren't actually that bad. [01:52] I like them [01:52] they are shiny [01:53] and that mylar film is pretty damned strong [01:53] No - I mean actual foil. [01:54] oh [01:57] and for the record, this hot glue is holding nearly to the point of ripping the mylar. [01:57] :) [01:57] Try at -20C though [01:57] yeah... [01:57] And try extended peel strength [01:57] I'll have to try and get some dry ice somewhere [01:57] extended peel strength? [01:58] Rig up something to apply a constant load to it, and leave it for a while [01:58] ahh [01:58] if its cold I don't think creep will be a prob [01:59] No - I was meaning failures where it starts failing at a slow rate across the joint [02:00] I'll mess around with it. [02:00] Foil doesn't seem too bad either. 2700Kg/m^3 - sure - but it's availbale cheaply at 11um. [02:01] let me know how it works out [02:02] I'm trying to do a test with what's in the kitchen. Trying to work out how to make a consistent thread of glue [02:06] *nod* [02:06] I'm cutting more gores. [02:07] And trying to resist the source of lift gas in my kitchen :) [02:07] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) left irc: "TEH MONSTARS THEY BE COMING" [02:56] this hot glue gun kinda sucks. it was cheap [02:57] if did this on a grand scale I'd get a good one [03:04] laters [03:05] fuzzylugnuts (n=hush@c-68-34-212-42.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) left irc: "sleepinticus" [03:17] EI5GTB__ (n=Paul@78.16.80.54) joined #highaltitude. [03:34] Ei5GTB_ (n=Paul@213-202-168-101.bas503.dsl.esat.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [03:38] Anyone happen to know if there is a mass limit below which you can release balloons without CAA/... [03:49] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude. 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[08:11] ah [08:11] fuzzylugnuts is now known as fuzzywet [08:11] http://www2.dem.inpe.br/hkk/2007/COBEM2007-1982-Walter.pdf [08:11] edmoore: ^ [08:11] fuzzywet is now known as fuzzylugnuts [08:11] [12:42am][SpeedEvil(+eiw)] [#highaltit(+cnt)] [Act: 1,5,4,3] [08:13] Okay guys, i've got the funds for the next project. You could start, betting how well will burn sixty 120l trashbag ductaped together. ;) [08:24] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude. [08:51] Filled with hydrogen? [08:52] what's happening? [08:52] Hiena mentioned something about burning trashbags. [08:55] :) [08:58] I'm still working on something to extrude 0.2-0.3mm dia hotmelt. [08:59] For my foil balloons. [09:00] No, it will be filled with hot-air. I've got enough lunch money for a trashbags and the ducktapes. Also, made a new burner design. [09:00] What're you fixing them together with? [09:00] oh [09:00] that RC balloon was fun [09:00] Very silly. [09:00] not sure how much C you can really get [09:00] You getta de up, and you getta de down. [09:01] I hopes 8 qubic meter will be enough for the 1 kg modells droptests. [09:01] That's about 10Kg of air. [09:02] If you heat it by 50C, you get 2Kg lift ish. [09:02] not sure I'd rate plastic bags at ambient + 50 [09:02] True. [09:02] That is the plan. The trashbag mets at 80. [09:02] unless you're in canada [09:02] +l [09:03] you are? [09:03] Also, i want to use it in winter time, and around february the we goes below -10. [09:04] that makes your life a lot easier then I guess [09:05] You could make a 'burner' from freezing water. [09:07] I need nil wind condition for the tests, and here the only options the spring and autumn mornings when the temperature around 10 C or a calm winter days when the temperature is around -15 C. [09:08] 1Kg what model? [09:08] Gliders and blended-wing-bodies. [09:09] And some lifting bodies, [09:09] fly like a pig [09:09] sting like a pig [09:10] glide like a pig, landing like a pig [09:10] that's a crap haiku about lifting bodies [09:10] Sure, but for the low Re conditions certifications have to do droptests. [09:11] Also, with a well adjusted CG and control surfaces, even the steamiron id flyable. [09:11] Khmm.. is... [09:12] I can't argue with that :) [09:13] At the same, my pals at the university, need something for the "morphing wing" tests. [09:14] Btw, i've got a crappy video from our last tests. http://rht.bme.hu/~balazs/dir/OPENAIR_autnomous_flight_test.wmv [09:15] Droptests from what altitude>? [09:16] At the second part you could see the onboard camera picture. The red line shows the horizont identification results, the short line shows the angle of the control surfaces. [09:17] SpeedEvil, 50m. That is the legal maximum here for the modell balloons. [09:17] Have you considered compressed air guns? [09:28] Yes. I use 8 atm "aircannon" for the high speed modell launch. But for the droptest need 0hv 0vv. [09:29] Nick change: wickerwaka -> akawaka [09:37] What i really don't likes with the pressure assisted lauch, how the start tube disturbs the flow around the the body. If the body has something supersonic shape or delta it's not a real problem, because it has enough lenght to hide the launch tube. But at the plank style flying-wigns almost useless. [09:45] Laurenceb_ (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-235.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [09:49] hi folks [09:50] hi. [09:51] I've been reading this - http://openuav.astroplanes.com/library/docs/LTU-EX-00081-SE.pdf [09:52] It's a bit weak on charachter development. [09:56] lol [09:56] akawaka (n=akawaka@external.treyarch.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [09:57] sections 2 and 4 are the most useful [09:57] Haven't read it yet [10:04] Shanuson (n=Peter@p54A96184.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [10:29] Laurenceb_: I found that paper very helpful, I remember [10:30] restart time [10:32] neontube (n=davemart@neontube.plus.com) joined #highaltitude. [10:37] morning all [10:37] Bit of a hangover this morning [10:37] :) [10:38] solder fumes from a diligent and focussed all-nighter? [10:38] Been soldering this morning. Learning to read pinout and desolder too [10:38] being [10:39] desoldering is a trick and a half [10:39] Does anyone happen to knoe if the internal occilator is turned on by default? [10:39] every time i have to desolder a chip I swear a lot [10:39] Laurenceb_: a question for you ^ [10:40] robert1971: is joining the happy avr world, and you know your fusebits [10:40] sorry, that was directed at Laurenceb_ [10:40] Seened to work very easy for me. Shoved brade on problem. Heated. Solder wicked away and remove wire. Might be more interesting with a 28 Pin DIL [10:40] seemed [10:41] big dills are the pain, yeah [10:41] surface mount is ok [10:41] when my a-level project 40-pin dil pic was soldered in the wrong way round by my friend, that made me a little jumpy :) [10:41] neontube_ (n=davemart@neontube.plus.com) joined #highaltitude. [10:52] neontube (n=davemart@neontube.plus.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [11:10] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) left irc: [11:11] Laurenceb_ (n=Laurence@host86-133-69-235.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [11:13] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host86-136-203-28.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [11:15] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@92.40.7.144.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [11:16] morning all [11:16] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [11:16] morning [11:18] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude. [11:19] robert1971, hows the beacon coming along? [11:19] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Halt! Hammerzeit!=-" [11:21] Morning peps" [11:23] :-) [11:24] Having a few teathers getting my avr to program [11:27] oh :-( [11:28] Apologies if this has already been asked robert1971 but what programmer/software tools are you using? [11:31] I ask as I'm having fun with an Atmel AVRISP mkII and AVR Studio 4. [11:32] its all about using an arduino [11:32] so much easier [11:33] Thanks jcoxon - Robostix for me. [11:34] :-) [11:35] Hey! Were we not going to collaborate on a project? [11:35] now that i've completed my beacon I'm going to start on the gumsix part of my payload [11:35] Can I be of assistance? [11:36] i'm sure you can be of assistance [11:36] ooo tunnels [11:36] might disappear [11:36] what were our plans again? [11:36] Not sure! I'm working with Gumstix and stuff for work - yes really! [11:37] sounds like a plan [11:37] :-) [11:37] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) left irc: [11:38] SpikeUK, send me an email and we could discuss this in detail if you want (jacoxon@googlemail.com) [11:38] quite a lot of the code is ready [11:38] robert1971 (n=rharriso@80.176.172.227) joined #highaltitude. [11:38] but its going to need lots of testing and debugging [11:38] join #avr [11:39] robert1971, you missed a '/' [11:40] jcoxon - done! [11:40] right i better be off [11:40] ok! Bye! [11:40] getting into the station (the joys of mobile broadband) [11:41] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@92.40.7.144.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving" [12:25] Xenion (n=robert@p579FC409.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude. [12:25] hello [12:27] is someone there ? [12:28] i wan't to acquire helium [12:28] about 2000 liter [12:28] can someone hep [12:28] can someone point me or help me to find a payable reseller ? [12:36] boc [12:37] http://www.bocballoongas.co.uk/ [12:51] thanks robert1971 [12:51] sorry to bother you but just a specific physiscs questrion [12:53] just imagine [12:54] i have a ballon with 5m³ [12:54] how much helium would i need to fill it up ? [12:54] i calculated 2000liter but i cant fight the thought that i forgot something or miscalculated something [13:00] edmoore (n=edmoore@88-212-167-121.rdns.as8401.net) joined #highaltitude. [13:29] robert1971: it's arrived! thank you very much! [13:59] jn1 (n=jenda@r6k145.net.upc.cz) joined #highaltitude. [14:00] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Nick collision from services. [14:01] Nick change: jn1 -> jnd [14:40] Xenion (n=robert@p579FC409.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [14:44] neontube_ (n=davemart@neontube.plus.com) left irc: [15:04] Afternnon all [15:05] hello! [15:05] it's arrived robert1971, thank you! [15:05] Hi! [15:05] Cool. Hopefull enough cable there [15:05] Did the monitor survive [15:06] ha yes, should have seen the look on mum's face when I was explaining when i explained where it would be layed [15:06] yep, it is perfectly happen [15:06] I can imagine [15:07] I have put in four terminators for the cable in the box you'll have to squish them using pliers when making the cable. I'm sure it's not beyond you :) [15:13] I'll manage :) [15:14] neontube (n=davemart@neontube.plus.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:16] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-144-99-26.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:18] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [15:19] jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) joined #highaltitude. [15:21] hello all [15:21] hi neontube [15:22] how u all been ? [15:22] hey neontube [15:22] good thanks [15:23] jcoxon: ever do anything else with that weather sat box? [15:27] my flat mates made me take down my antenna from the balcony during the summer as they wanted to sit out there [15:27] :-p [15:28] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host86-136-203-28.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]" [15:29] lol [15:29] tell them that without it being up you wouldn't know when it was going to be a nice day to sit there! [15:29] hehe [15:30] i'm wondering if i can put it inside somewhere [15:30] do u havea licence key for wxtoimg ? [15:30] jcoxon: would you/your parents put up with a 2ft tall truss tower with twin 4m auto-track yagis on top? [15:30] yeah [15:30] 20ft* [15:30] not sure how well that would go down in london [15:30] and we live in a conservation area in suffolk [15:30] indeed, was thinking suffolk [15:30] the mobile phone masts aren't even allowed [15:30] oh well, no giant pointy robots 4 u then [15:31] is it worth paying for ? [15:31] shame [15:31] lol [15:31] neontube, it was pretty good [15:31] i don't seem to pay any attention to palnning laws [15:31] got a nice 1m dish and motor on a pole in the garden [15:32] and a nice 5m scaffolding pole strapped to the greenhouse to hole the weather sat antenna up [15:32] neontube, so you set up nicely for the weather sats? [15:32] antenna wise yes [15:32] but looking for a scanner radio at the mo [15:33] i'm getting my licence soon [15:33] as that old reciver box (like that one i gave you) doesn't have much scope to use the new ones due to lack of xtls in it [15:34] oh i miss have the sats passing [15:34] anyone got an old scanner they want rid off ? [15:34] 'tick tock - tick tock - tick tock - tick tock' [15:34] hmmm would being indoors massively affect the reception [15:34] neontube, trawlled ebay? [15:34] yer [15:35] over priced junk mainly [15:35] but i'm checking every day to spot if anything good comes up [15:35] http://cam.balloonfacility.com/CgiStart?page=Single&Language=0 [15:35] getting ready for this HASP thing [15:35] which is a bit behind schedule [15:36] cool [15:36] i wanna get something that will let me receive the SW weather faxes [15:36] look now! [15:36] that's what we need [15:36] too late [15:37] what was it [15:37] giant tanker full of helium ? [15:37] SpikeUK (n=chatzill@host86-136-203-28.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:37] tranking antenna on the roof [15:38] sooo cool [15:39] we're not that far off this ourselves [15:39] when we do sawn launches (rather than silly am launches) this kinda stuff will be quite feasable [15:40] has anyone sorted out sending live (or recorded) stills from the camera back to a base station yet [15:40] neontube, i'm nearly there there [15:40] :D [15:40] strike the second thre [15:40] there* [15:40] i want to set up some sort of cctv on my allotment [15:41] once james super-beacon is finished he'll be putting us all to shame with crazy-bitch projects [15:41] and recieve it back at the house [15:41] i'm only about 500m away [15:41] superbeacon is finished! [15:41] needs testing but it works [15:42] Hey jcoxon! Have you received my email? [15:42] yes [15:42] thanks [15:42] ok [15:45] jcoxon: Show off :-P [15:45] I'm still building mine. Took me 6hr to program the avr on mine [15:46] i did the code on a big arduino then shifted it to a arduino mini [15:46] In the end it was the fu@@ing programmer. Using the atmel programmer now [15:46] I remember doug being delighted and amused that in the space of about 9 seconds, james had wrigged up the online radio tuner. [15:47] it was a few hours [15:47] :-p [15:47] i exaggerated the time slight. but still cool. [15:47] slightly* [15:47] hehe [15:47] these doctors they need to use their time wisely :) [15:48] pah i haven't done any medicine for a few weeks [15:48] start again on monday [15:48] I have three kids and a wife 4 my handicap [15:49] My beacon is working now :-P [15:49] i might need to change my serial routines as it waits for a serial string from the gps, if the gps dies then so might the beacon [15:50] can you not interrupt? [15:50] oh quite possibly - just the way i was doing the code [15:50] i.e. '1hz beep until there's a new nmea string' [15:50] which means there should never be 1hz beep unless the gps packs up [15:51] wouldn't a repeat of the last position be more useful than a 1hz beep ? [15:51] you are quite right. [15:52] though maybe with the warning that it's old data [15:52] adding a tone as part of the signal message is useful for tracking use though [15:52] the rtty warble is nice - you always think oyu hear it in white noise. [15:52] jcoxon: U got the gps connected too? [15:52] bimey i'm slow [15:52] yup [15:53] hmmm that said a 1hz beacon is always nice to actually find by fox hunting [15:53] yup, somehting u can hear without having to be in sync with a data stream [15:53] 1hz be my choice [15:53] i think my theory is all good [15:54] it's more of a heart beat, which is nice. [15:54] just need change the code to continue working without a gps [15:54] which isn't difficult [15:55] jatkins (n=jatkins@79-78-251-146.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:55] neontube (n=davemart@neontube.plus.com) left #highaltitude. [15:55] jatkins - alive! [15:55] hi [15:55] :) [15:56] Can GPS output be interfaced straight into the rx of the avr? [15:57] Assuming it's tty [15:57] ttl? [15:57] :) slip of the brain [15:57] yes [15:58] if they're both 3.3V, definitely yes [15:58] if they're 3.3/5V (one each, either way round) almost certainly yes but not best practice. though we don't care. [15:59] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude. [15:59] so i've got a 3.3v gps and an arduino mini pro which runs at 3.3v [16:00] so all is good [16:00] Talking of bad practice can I recieve input from the gps on the rx and TX to the gumstix on one avr [16:00] anyone want to save shipping on a farnell order? [16:00] if the gps doesn't need any input (not normally for defaults) then yep [16:00] I'm going to pick up my order on monday :-P [16:01] oh damn, you live next to it don't you [16:01] not fair [16:01] 10 low voltage atmega8s [16:01] cute! [16:01] what's the app? [16:02] beacon in the main. Just a quid less each for 10 [16:02] I'll put them in the draw with the others :) [16:03] the lassen SKII is 5v i think [16:03] why that'n over the iQ? [16:04] Ebola (n=Ebola@unaffiliated/ebola) joined #highaltitude. [16:04] it had the rf antenna attachment on it. I would go for the Iq next time [16:05] the iQ does too :p [16:06] still, will be good to have another gps validated on the altitude front [16:07] arse [16:08] well the SKII works at 5v at so does my avr at the momnet. @@uk it I'll order a couple of iQs up too :) [16:08] :) [16:08] not different connector - get a couple of hlf<>sma converters [16:08] i say hlf - it's some combination of letters like that that the iQ uses [16:08] They don't sell iQ's at farnell [16:09] I'm going to use an avr to drive the beacon [16:09] that's that then [16:10] BTW edmoore: can you rx from the gps and tx to a gumstix on the avr [16:10] yep [16:10] you have pretty independant control of the pins [16:11] the AVR would need to be at 3.3v [16:11] That is going to be perfect. [16:11] they're happy with 5V [16:11] unless they're the L versions [16:11] jcoxon: Picing up 10 lv ones on Monday [16:11] Picking :) [16:11] jsut hte gumstix will be 3.3v [16:13] 3.3v thats a usless value. What do you power it all with? [16:13] 4.5v [16:14] 3xAA witha resistor or a converter [16:14]