[00:52] flowolf (n=flowolf@host178-236-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: "Leaving" [06:11] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [06:26] edmoore!!1one [06:27] too early [06:27] it's too late here [06:27] 1:30 am [06:27] gnite :) [06:27] what time? [06:27] lol [06:27] ok, leep well [06:27] sleep* [06:28] hehe, thanks [08:36] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [09:40] flowolf (n=flowolf@host178-236-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #highaltitude. [10:40] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [10:55] Laurenceb (n=Laurence@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [11:21] Laurenceb (n=laurence@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [11:21] hello [11:21] Action: Laurenceb has a working radio [11:22] awesome [11:22] not very good [11:22] but proves I'm on the right lines [11:23] I'm using fldigi [11:23] what's that? [11:23] think truetty is better [11:23] linux rtty app [11:23] its the only thing that can talk to my line in [11:23] using mic results in frequency splitting that utterly screws the singal [11:24] I'm sure we could get a really nice signal with Rocketboys setup, the FFT looks good [11:25] Action: Laurenceb realises that typing in obscene comments to test the radio is a bad idea, hams could be listening [11:27] grr minicom cant upload files from anywhere other than its install directory it would appear [11:30] hmm looks like a clock problem [11:30] either my radio isnt 300 baud, or fldigi doesnt think it is [11:31] but still, it should syncronise itself of the start/stop bit transition [11:33] doh you have to calibrate fldigi before using it, probably the cause of the problem [11:44] Question about radios and serial - probably displaying a huge ammount of ignorance [11:44] When I use serial to ssh ot telnet between Linux boxes it is duplex? [11:44] What happens with radios - is it just one way traffic? [11:45] we just use one way at the moment, yes [11:45] Ah [11:45] we're working on an uplink though [11:45] but it's been fine so far [11:45] I've bought a pair of TDi2s from radiometrix [11:45] I will have to test them out [11:45] cool [11:46] Still waiting for the microprocessor from Tin Can [11:59] the hammer? [12:07] Yes [12:07] Don't know much about it yet [12:09] hmm theres some sort of timing problem [12:10] it looks pretty funky [12:10] if I send blah blah blah blah blah [12:10] I get blah baŁ^TRR% blah blah Ł$Ł$% and so on [12:11] its odd, as if its not using the stop to start bit transitions to syncronise correctly [12:11] maybe a fault in fldigi, I got it to output a discriminator trace and that seems to be ok [12:13] I can get strings of 5 or 6 characters through, so it obviously working pretty much ok [12:14] its really annoying that truetty isnt talking to my sound card properly [12:15] flowolf (n=flowolf@host178-236-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left #highaltitude ("Leaving"). [13:11] flowolf (n=flowolf@host178-236-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #highaltitude. [13:20] http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:dscn0979.jpg [13:21] that looks really good laurenceb [13:21] nice job [13:21] thanx [13:22] I got the power saving to work [13:22] uses 10ma most of the time [13:22] then 30ma transmitting [13:23] I think it can be reduced to about 7 to 27 by turning off the unneeded avr hardware [13:23] from what to what? [13:24] from 7 to 27ma sleep to transmitting [13:25] wow that's not bad [13:25] tho- what's the 7ma when it's sleeping? [13:25] it has to keep a bit of hardware ticking over at 12MHz [13:26] wassat? [13:26] to timeout - timer1 [13:26] and that means a load of other logic is running at 12Mhz [13:26] but... if I used a clk divider [13:26] could you not send the whole thing to sleep? [13:27] no, it has to wake up [13:27] in case the main flight computer dies [13:27] ext int from usart? [13:27] oh ok [13:27] hmm..... [13:27] using the clk divider will get that way down, I should have thought of that one before [13:28] yeah [13:28] you could make an insanely low power module [13:28] or rather, entire balloon [13:28] use a mega168p [13:28] have it sit on seal island off hunstanton for weeks :) [13:28] hehe [13:29] I was thinking of a mini zero pressure with two powerfilm cells [13:29] and ethanol ballast [13:29] i can't wait to launch ours [13:29] whats your next launch? [13:30] the zp [13:30] and new flight comp [13:30] ah sweet [13:30] ballast? [13:30] 350g payload [13:30] nope, just want to do a sort of latex balloon flight profile, but with zp [13:30] wow thats good, almost as light as mihab1 [13:30] hmm [13:31] it might land in the north sea [13:31] well it's what the balloon is rated for to get to 35km ish [13:31] with no burst it will cruise until sunset [13:31] the new payload ha slanding prediction [13:31] has* [13:31] well of course [13:31] and the balloon itself will have cutdown [13:32] or rather, he vent [13:32] http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol_code [13:32] beat that :P [13:32] well its only 50% done [13:32] but it will read a kml file for cutdown [13:32] and do prediction [13:33] that is nice - I'm hoping to put kml files on ours [13:33] but doing it all in c from scratch is more tricky [13:33] :( [13:33] might have to pass on that one [13:33] Action: Laurenceb is now a python fan [13:33] I'm going to use reed solomon with MD5 checksum [13:33] it basically is a pseudocode interpreter [13:34] and live google earth view :P [13:34] you've seen my reed solomon encoder? [13:34] ha [13:34] got to, really! [13:35] http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:python_reedsolomon [13:36] impressive [13:36] I'm going to add a parity bit for each byte [13:37] then you have error probability data for the decoder [13:37] which results in a doubling of performance [13:38] god knows why that isnt used as standard... but in CD drives the error probability data comes from the tracking electronics [13:42] the cool thing about reed solomon is that the start of each packet is human readable [13:43] you'll need a list of irreducable polynomial vectors to make that work with different character sizes [13:44] so I'll build that into the code [13:51] bbl lunch [14:35] back :D [14:36] I might email the fldigi developer, I'm sure he could offer some advice [15:15] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@host86-129-62-157.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:17] hey there [15:18] hello Laurenceb [15:20] I got the radio working [15:20] excellent [15:20] sort of, theres bursts of corruption [15:20] i fried my data logger it seems :( [15:20] I've emailed the fldigi developer [15:20] jcoxon nooo :( [15:20] yeah, seems i managed to short out one of the pins by a mistake [15:21] and it died [15:21] truetty wont talk to my sound card, and I think fldigi might need some sort of calibration [15:21] isn't the end of the world though [15:21] :( [15:21] on linux? [15:21] yes [15:22] what sound card drivers are you using? [15:22] alsa? [15:22] OSS [15:22] hmmm [15:22] yes [15:22] it recommends portaudio [15:22] but it wouldnt compile [15:23] oh [15:25] theres a binary, but for amd32, not amd64 [15:30] jcoxon: always work with the power off, and quadrouple check everything before turning it on. If in doubt, wait until after lunch before turning it on [15:30] thats my technique [15:31] oh i know [15:31] its more that i placed one of the resistors onto the wrong pin [15:32] well thats what i think did it [15:33] oh well, c'est la vie [15:34] its not the end of the world, can still log directly to the gm862 [15:36] get an ngw100 [15:39] ooh I have a reply from the fldigi developer :d [15:40] ngw100, pah [15:40] hehe [15:40] i'm quite happy [15:49] Laurenceb, so, where do you see the future of ballooning going? [15:49] I'm redoing my website and its made me think [15:50] I want to do long duration [15:50] zero pressure with ballast [15:50] then ir [15:51] miir* [15:51] It's harmless fun - I would imagine that the government will make it illegal [15:51] :-) [15:51] lol [15:51] Simon-MPFH, nah they won't make it illegal [15:51] its nothing new [15:51] not enough people doing it [15:51] Hmmmm, they will say that a terrorist could use it [15:51] the CAA still seem happy with us [15:52] The Campaign Against Aviation [15:52] not enough people doing it for them to care [15:52] Cool - lets hope it stays that way [15:52] hehe [15:52] indeed [15:52] Question [15:52] Why one big balloon and not lots of smaller ones? [15:52] (we just have to be sensible so they stay happy) [15:53] Simon-MPFH, quite a few answers [15:53] you can't be sure about them all bursting at the same time [15:53] Aye - but then you have cutdown? [15:53] (though you could of course cutdown) [15:53] snap [15:53] cutdowns aren't perfect [15:54] actually they usually don't work [15:54] Ha ha - there's confidence! [15:54] jcoxon: did you see my ballast design? [15:54] also there would be problems about balloons rubbing [15:54] there has been a lot of discussion about damage to balloons [15:54] for example US scientists don't really mind how you handle balloons [15:54] but CNES do [15:55] I guess a big balloon is more effitient - weight/volume [15:55] that as well [15:55] and big balloons can stretch more [15:55] however a multiballoon design has its uses [15:55] would be good for a platform say [15:55] basically a ball bearing resting on an o ring, then a small coil to lift it to release ethanol, good for zero pressure ballast [15:55] for perhaps a rockoon launch [15:55] yup, i saw [15:55] i think ethanol is a good choice [15:55] not going to cause too much damage [15:56] drown your sowwows with the remains when balloon lost? [15:56] sorrows [15:56] and go blind due to it being industrial ethanol [15:57] :-D [15:57] Hey Laurenceb - you work for TinCan? Where's my hammer? I'm soooooo excited [15:57] Simon-MPFH, it ain't Laurenceb [15:58] Ah, soz [15:58] Was never any good with names [15:58] you want pplague [15:58] Still, it's better than a bumstix [15:58] ouch [16:00] Laurenceb (n=laurence@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection [16:01] The ngw100 looks good [16:01] indeed it does [16:02] Laurenceb (n=laurence@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [16:02] Bah, too many choices [16:02] there are lots of good modules, but i reckon its best to choose one and stick to it for a bit [16:02] constantly changing doesn't make things reliable [16:02] I've got plenty done with 8bit Atmels! [16:02] you can do anything with avrs [16:03] Simon-MPFH: you have avr experience? [16:03] Yes but quite basic [16:03] Assembler hurts my head so I use C from Linux [16:03] Driving servos to take photos from r/c gliders and suchlikje [16:04] cool [16:04] I'm looking for a 433 MHz Yagi with SMA connector - any sites recommended? [16:05] http://www.lprs.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=3&products_id=108 [16:05] This seems OK but no data [16:06] http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/code:python_reedsolomon [16:06] updated it :P [16:06] uses a library to decode the encoded data [16:08] So LaurenceB, for the 'hard of radios' what does it do? [16:10] it encodes your data into packets [16:10] errors in a packet can then be corrected [16:11] kinda like parity in serial coms? [16:12] no [16:13] it can correct errors, as well as detecting them [16:13] Ah, like TCP [16:15] not sure about that [16:15] I dont know how TCP works [16:15] but its FEC, it doesnt have to have the data resent, which I'm guessing TCP does [16:15] AFAIK TCP gives you a guarenteed end to end connection - it will keep asking for packets that are lost or corrupt [16:15] ok its not like TCP [16:18] as everything you need to know is contained in one packet [16:18] look up FEC [16:20] i'm quite nostalgic :-) [16:20] re reading my write up about pegasus 3 [16:22] jcoxon: how do I include python code? [16:22] ? [16:22] ie whats equivalent to #include [16:22] import [16:22] ok [16:22] so import "reed_solomon.py" ? [16:23] ummmm [16:23] on my gm862 it compiles them as binaries on start up [16:23] and so i do [16:23] import reed_solomon [16:24] ignoring the file ending bit thingy [16:24] but you should check first! [16:27] Oooooh, so this can run on a GM862 and use a GPIO line to send the GPS readout by Radio [16:29] what can? [16:29] i'm confused Simon-MPFH [16:30] reed solomon? [16:30] Is that not what the "reed_solomon.py could do? [16:30] yes :P [16:30] Smart [16:30] in fact, with parity checking, it can correct 23 errors in a 128 byte packet [16:31] You hoping to get 3-400Km I should think? [16:31] yes [16:31] with 256 byte packets you could get 1000km [16:31] but its not for a gm862 [16:32] What's your base reciever? [16:32] its more for a serial port based radio [16:32] Ah [16:32] yes sorry [16:33] http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:aerosol [16:33] there [16:33] sweet got cocoamodem working [16:42] hmm [16:42] say could I send you some wav files? [16:44] yup [16:44] you want me to test teh rtty? [16:45] maybe, i'm trying fldigi with some samples [16:49] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@phantom.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving" [16:51] aha [16:51] with sample files I get similar behaviour from fldigi [16:52] seems to be a bug in the way it recognises the stop/start bit transition [16:52] and uses it to syncronise itself [16:53] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@lancaster.mpfh.co.uk) joined #highaltitude. [16:55] yes, its certainly buggy [16:56] which is annoying... [16:56] right time to pack up here [16:56] cya [17:00] Laurenceb (n=laurence@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection [17:57] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude. [17:58] Good eveningt! [18:53] Hiena (n=Hiena@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: "-=Alkoholmentes-sör és repülőgép-szimulátor, biztos út a guminő felé=-" [19:20] hi jcoxon [19:23] jatkins (n=jatkins@79-73-124-40.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #highaltitude. [19:59] MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a429.adsl.enternet.hu) joined #highaltitude. [20:03] ohai [20:49] jatkins (n=jatkins@79-73-124-40.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: " I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-" [21:30] Simon-MPFH (n=simon@lancaster.mpfh.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving" [22:08] edmoore (n=edmoore@pomegranate.chu.cam.ac.uk) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [22:13] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust538.glfd.cable.ntl.com) joined #highaltitude. [22:28] mc- (n=mfcastle@cpc4-glfd1-0-0-cust538.glfd.cable.ntl.com) left irc: [23:00] edmoore (n=edmoore@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [23:10] hey edmoore [23:14] hi jcoxon [23:14] hows things? [23:14] am with fnoble (again) [23:14] fpga time [23:15] sounds fun [23:15] we're looking at some waterproof enclosures for nova 6 [23:15] interesting [23:16] i was going to make firefly float [23:16] but not be fully waterproof [23:16] well probs same for us [23:16] not all will be waterproof [23:18] really getting there with firefly [23:29] what's left? [23:30] ummmm payload case [23:30] and the cutdown code [23:30] cool [23:30] our igniters now have avrs on them [23:31] so they can all be daisychained up on an i2c loop [23:31] they will have normaly digital 1/0 overide though [23:32] nice [23:33] the gm862 does't do floats [23:33] so its needs some work to change them into usable ints [23:34] (i know its a matter of just shifting the decimal point) [23:35] edmoore (n=edmoore@fn217.quns.cam.ac.uk) left irc: [00:00] --- Thu Feb 7 2008