[00:02] Ebola (n=Ebola@host86-143-156-147.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [00:24] http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/Bil-Bristol.pdf [00:32] http://webstore.mlxsemi.com/mlxstore.asp?family=MLX90247 [00:59] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host81-159-32-92.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) left irc: [02:52] Ebola (n=Ebola@host86-143-156-147.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed" [03:45] Nick change: snoopl3s_ -> snoopl3s [05:47] snoopl3s (n=Snoopl3s@209.105.206.94) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [05:47] snoopl3s_ (n=Snoopl3s@209.105.206.94) joined #highaltitude. [06:29] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection [10:22] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) joined #highaltitude. [11:03] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) left irc: "Leaving" [11:36] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) joined #highaltitude. [11:55] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host81-159-32-92.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [12:53] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host81-159-32-92.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) left irc: [14:08] defy (n=defy@60-234-174-220.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 148 (No route to host) [15:07] edwardmoore (n=edwardmo@88.212.167.121) joined #highaltitude. [15:21] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-179-186.dsl.pipex.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:29] hi jcoxon [15:43] edwardmoore (n=edwardmo@88.212.167.121) left irc: [15:50] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude. [15:51] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) left irc: "Leaving" [16:14] Ebola (n=Ebola@host86-143-156-147.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [16:33] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) joined #highaltitude. [18:13] edwardmoore (n=edwardmo@88.212.167.121) joined #highaltitude. [18:19] rocketboy (n=steve@host86-132-43-147.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [18:20] hi rocketboy\ [18:25] hi ed [18:25] got your email [18:25] whtdyathink [18:25] fair enough- tomorrow does look pretty frim [18:25] grim* [18:26] yeah [18:26] better to leave it a few days [18:27] in any event i'm having trouble with the radio link [18:27] means i don't have to get up at stupid o'clock tomorrow too, which is nice [18:27] bonus [18:27] oh? [18:27] yeah - I cant figure it [18:27] I'm using an absolute stabdard circuit from the data sheet [18:28] (keyloc chips) [18:28] The transmitters transmitting [18:28] the receiver is reciving the signal fine [18:28] the data is going over the link fine [18:29] the reciver chip seems to be working - its responding to key presses [18:29] so it all should be working but it isn't [18:30] The only thing is that the circuit in the datasheet seems to have changed [18:30] in what way? [18:30] from an older version [18:30] - well in the old version there is an inverter on the data line on the transmitter [18:31] and on the new version of the datasheet there isn't [18:31] does it look like the newer one is clocking out the right sort of things? [18:31] also in the new version an LED is shown the wrong way round for it to work [18:32] yep - data sounds and looks (on a scope) fine - 0V to +4V (on a 5V Vcc) [18:32] I'm just wondering if the inverter did anything [18:33] given the link is manchester encoded - ten an inverter would make a difference [18:33] ten = then [18:33] so whay is the old and new datasheets different? [18:34] anyway - I'll ring then tomorrow [18:34] might be worth a bash. that is odd though- have any of the components been updated between then and now? [18:34] then = them [18:34] lol [18:34] figured :) [18:35] nah - everything is the same except the inverter - hand on I'll send the URLs [18:35] ok ty [18:35] http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/acatalog/DS600-10_RF600.pdf - see bottom of page 3 [18:38] brb just going to grab a drink.. [18:38] ok [18:39] manchester encoding is cool [18:39] do you know of any good books that teach someone who knows nothing about RF slightly more about RF? [18:41] the RSGB books used to be good - but I havn't read one for years [18:42] the circuit looks so simple that it looks like adding an inverter would be the only thing to try! [18:42] OK this is weird - the latest version of the other datasheet shows the transister inverter back in again - but I only printed out the datasheet a couple of weeks ago [18:43] they have updated it in the last two weeks - my guess is that they had the worng version up [18:44] - so I have built the circuit without the inverter [18:44] odd, but it looks like that's the way forward! [18:44] So I'll make another version with an inverter [18:45] coolio- let me know how it goes [18:46] here is the RSGB site http://www.rsgb.org.uk/ [18:47] cool thank you [18:48] the ARRL is the US version of the RSGB - they used to go some good beginner books [18:48] very practical [18:49] practical suits [18:51] the ARRL handbook would be good then? [18:52] yeah - I have a very old copy (it has valves in it) - you are welcome to borrow - also the RSGB VHF handbook too [18:54] awesome ty. would be great to de-mystify some of this stuff! [18:55] happy to give you a run though of the basics on a whiteboard some time [18:56] that would be awesome- i'd appreciate it very much [18:57] perhaps we could do it round the whiteboard in your lab next time i'm over there [18:57] Some other the others might be interested too [18:57] yes definatelly [18:57] awesome :) [18:59] have finally begun to get PICs sorted [19:00] decided to start from assembler and fundamentals instead of asking henry a load of c-related stuff- makes a lot more sense now [19:01] yeah - assembler is a good starting point - you really get to understand the way the PICS work that way [19:02] - plus you can really pack some functionality into a small space with assember [19:02] it's been great so far... until I decided i need to do some trig functions :) [19:03] There is a floating point libary [19:03] suddenly the c-compilers looked more attractive. but it's nice to know i can do both now when i need to. i'm guessing the bit-bashing routines will be better in assembler [19:03] is there? [19:03] I think it includes SIN COS TAN SQRT etc. [19:03] hang on I'll look [19:03] that'd be very exciting [19:05] yep - seems so [19:06] I'll see if I can find them on the microchip site [19:06] cool. will have a poke around [19:08] application note 660 - http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00660.pdf [19:09] OK _ i'm off to build the other version of the circuit - BBL [19:10] ok cool- cya later. thanks for the link [19:11] fun reading this evening! [19:31] hey all [19:36] bbl [19:48] snoopl3s_ (n=Snoopl3s@209.105.206.94) left irc: "See ya" [19:54] snoopl3s (n=Snoopl3s@209.105.206.94) joined #highaltitude. [19:55] snoopl3s_ (n=Snoopl3s@209.105.206.124) joined #highaltitude. [20:12] snoopl3s (n=Snoopl3s@209.105.206.94) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [21:01] LaurenceB (n=laurence@host86-142-87-140.range86-142.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude. [21:01] Hi all [21:06] hi laurenceb [21:08] looking at thermopile sensors [21:09] I've been experimenting with my antaris gps today, not very impressed, sirf2 is better [21:10] lol [21:10] such is life [21:10] there is a firmware upgrade I plan to try, I've emailed u-blox to check it will work, hopefully they will reply tomorrow [21:10] have you seen the yummy 5hz one spark are now doing? [21:10] hmmm christmas time... [21:10] lol [21:11] but with thermopile stabilization high gps rate is not needed [21:12] but it's not as sexy [21:12] theres a US company called FMA direct, they sell thermopile stabilization systems quite cheap [21:12] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) left irc: "Leaving" [21:13] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) joined #highaltitude. [21:13] edwardmoore, postpone tomorrow? [21:13] yarp [21:13] cool [21:13] weaher looks bad [21:13] whats was planned for tomorrow? [21:13] peg 5 :p [21:13] ha [21:13] oh ed and i were doing our parafoil stuff [21:13] oh cool [21:13] LaurenceB, its not peg V [21:14] (i was joking) [21:14] that'll be soon [21:14] i see [21:14] brb [21:14] it also means i can get up at a more happy hour [21:14] hehe indeed [21:15] hmmm i'm bored [21:15] why? [21:15] cause i've got nothing to do at home [21:15] no use starting anything [21:15] I'm not convinced by parafoils and rogallo wings anymore [21:16] they have to go relativly slowly [21:16] and thus are effected by turbulence/ gusts of wind [21:16] why is it no use starting anything? [21:16] build a high alt glider lol [21:16] cause i'm going back to cam tomorrow [21:17] oh yeah i forgot [21:17] and i've got things to do in cam [21:17] fun with bones [21:17] as ever [21:17] are you still both keen on parafoils? [21:18] LaurenceB, yeah, we had some interesting results [21:18] encouraging [21:18] I like them i must say [21:18] after some experiments I plan to modify an old rc plane with thermopile stabilization [21:18] and gps shifting the null position [21:18] LaurenceB, and its fun experimenting on them even if in the end it doesn't work to plan [21:19] yes:P [21:19] I hadnt conisdered the effects of turbulence before [21:19] its no use if it keeps stalling [21:19] due to gusts [21:20] "windshear" is that called? [21:20] we'll certainly be limited by launch conditions i think [21:20] yes, unfortunately you need a clear day for thermopiles [21:20] i'm not so worried about wind shear [21:21] guess its okay if you pick the conditions [21:22] aye [21:22] of course it will work with just a rudder and gps [21:23] as I've planned before [21:23] will you have some stability on the roll axis? [21:24] but thermopile stabilization is easier to do [21:24] well with thermopiles, the gps heading offset shifts the roll stabilization offset [21:25] without, the offset goes through PI loop to rudder servo [21:25] ok [21:26] if I've got pitch stabilization via thermopiles as well, then the pitch offset can be adjusted to keep the glider heading at a decent speed [21:28] hey ed - fixed it - it works! [21:28] the invertor? [21:28] yep - thats all it needed - a duff data sheet [21:29] grrrrrrrr [21:29] well it's cool that it's now working [21:29] it seems quite sensitive too [21:30] in a good way? [21:30] yep [21:30] Action: jcoxon has a 386 box that needs a job - prizes for anyone who can think of something cool and slightly unusual [21:31] slightly more complicated idea for pitch control... find a target speed for the given altitude, integrate the differnece between gps speed and target and use it to shift the null point for pitch stabilization [21:31] - gps speed and target speed [21:31] brb [21:33] it must be possible to use all the power of a 386 for something..... [21:33] jcoxon how about the brains for motion control for your cnc hot wire cutter? [21:33] ooo i like that idea [21:34] feed it bitmaps or something, and it can make them [21:37] bbl food :-) [21:39] use stepper motors off junk [21:39] parallel port [21:40] my question though is what you attach the other end of the wire to? [21:40] from the port? [21:40] actually you can probably ignore that question [21:41] if you want some steppers I'm throwing some out [21:41] no the cutting wire [21:41] oh i have no idea [21:41] i think got to make a stepper motor work first [21:41] hehe i can be super lazy and use the motor controllers off the drive themselves [21:56] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) left irc: "Leaving" [22:00] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) joined #highaltitude. [22:01] the next couple of weekends look good jet-stream wise [22:02] thinking of tying in a balloon launch with some drop tests? [22:03] I was thinking of using a parafoil (but no steering) instread of a normal chute - and sending up a video camera to see how it fairs inflating [22:05] interesting [22:05] rocketboy, you probably want an update on our progress [22:05] basically we've built a dual servo payload and restrung a parafoil [22:06] did you use the one from the NOVA lab? [22:06] (parafoil) [22:07] no we used the one i had [22:08] but its a parafoil [22:08] basically we weren't sure of hte angle of attack [22:08] so have used a bar controlled by a servo [22:08] did you re-string it like the Black Rainbow [22:08] so we can work out the correct angle [22:08] yeah quite similar [22:09] so you have just to attcahment points? [22:09] to = two [22:09] we have 2 bars [22:09] which the lines come down to [22:10] but they are still seperated [22:10] give me a sec i'll upload some pics [22:10] so one bar for pitch the other for roll [22:10] ok [22:10] no sorry - 2 bars as the attachemnt points [22:10] like black rainbow [22:11] ah ok [22:11] I hadn't thought of that, so the angle of the bars is changed to control the angle of attack? [22:11] yeah [22:11] its only to work out the best angle [22:11] and height difference between them contols the steering? [22:14] the angle difference [22:14] I've made a romote control payload for my rogallo with three lines [22:14] oh I see [22:14] i've no idea if it'll work.... well i think it'll work, but not optimally, but at least we can play with angle of attack and steer with 2 servos, which will be helpful for testing [22:16] the back two lines go onto a bar with a servo in the center and the front one onto the end of a bar sticking out of the front that hinges up and down off a second servo [22:16] we're sure about the stability of having all the lines go to a single bar [22:16] weren't* [22:17] havent tried this with the rogallo yet, flew it on friday with some floor tiles on the bottom, but it was rather windy [22:21] it was increadibly slow, I could keep up with it even tho the tiles weighed about 1kg [22:22] so the wind caused it to keep stalling, and when glides of any sort stall they tend to change direction [22:25] BBS (BB Shortly) [22:26] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) left irc: "Leaving" [22:29] having said that, a smaller faster fling rogallo wing/parafoil wouldnt necessarily be a bad idea [22:29] and it would be interesting to try thermopile roll stabilization on one [22:32] http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/parawing/ [22:33] ohh [22:34] looks very similar to what I made for the rogallo [22:40] I've built "steer.gif" witha front arm for pitch contol [22:43] right i'm off [22:43] night all [22:43] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@85-210-179-186.dsl.pipex.com) left irc: "Leaving" [22:44] me 2 cuya [22:47] cya [22:47] rocketboy (n=steve@host86-132-43-147.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) left irc: "Leaving" [22:50] flowolf (n=flowolf@host179-89.pool80181.interbusiness.it) joined #highaltitude. 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