[00:00] anywho, night [00:00] phatmonkey (n=phatmonk@65.98.2.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [00:01] hmmm ho [00:01] perhaps i should think about some insurance [00:02] right i better get to bed [00:02] got to start revision again :( [00:02] yeah, "morning, i need a liability-for-damage insurance" [00:03] "sure, what's the make of the car?" [00:03] hehe [00:03] "well... actually, it's a 1500g weather balloon" [00:03] ;> [00:03] wouldn't worry about the balloon! [00:03] yeah [00:03] night Tiger^ [00:03] chat soon [00:03] night :) [00:04] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [00:13] macfreak4 (n=macfreak@24-107-201-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #highaltitude. [00:36] macfreak4 (n=macfreak@24-107-201-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection [05:10] macfreak4 (n=macfreak@24-107-201-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #highaltitude. [07:18] macfreak4 (n=macfreak@24-107-201-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection [08:09] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection [08:25] defy (n=defy@60-234-234-98.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #highaltitude. [08:42] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [08:50] hey [08:50] hows it going [08:51] hey defy [08:51] its going okay [08:51] you? [08:52] yea same old, relaxing after a sunday full of work [08:55] hehe sunday has only just begun :-D ! [08:56] Action: jcoxon only has one exam left [08:56] lol [08:56] sweet [08:57] need to start working on building a payload case [08:58] cool [08:58] did you end up getting any wireless modules? [08:58] sadly the guy in america who was going to help can't now [08:58] i've got the 868mhz dev kit on its way [08:58] there was a little trouble about method of payment [08:58] but thats sorted now [08:59] i reckon it'll arrive on weds [08:59] awesome, those are legal where you are? [08:59] (perfect as i'd have finished my exam [08:59] ) [08:59] thats the thing [08:59] i'm not to sure [08:59] hehe [08:59] the aerocomms? [08:59] yeah [08:59] sweet [08:59] 868mhz are legal [08:59] but in payloads i'm not sure [08:59] i think they are considering they are ISM [09:00] they are as legal as wifi would be [09:00] thats cool, i was hoping i could use those here but i dont think i can, you should be able to get pretty good range with them [09:00] 868 are only 15km :( [09:00] not the 900mhz which are 32 [09:00] ah true, i thought they were the same wattage? [09:01] yeah [09:01] i reckon they'll go further [09:01] get some nice antennas [09:01] just cause there won't be anything in between [09:02] need to learn about all this antenna stuff [09:02] I'll be interested to know how you get on with the aerocomms, i might still pickup a set while I'm in the US in july [09:02] no probs [09:03] i'll be documenting everything like usual [09:03] cool [09:03] i'm so horrible with documenting stuff, lol [09:04] well i sort of do it afterwards [09:04] best to make sure it works first [09:05] hehe [09:11] trying to work out what to do about if i need insurance for peg III [09:12] what do you mean? [09:13] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-247-203.47-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude. [09:13] well what happens if it hits something/ somebodt [09:13] somebody* [09:13] ah actual insurance, yea that would suck [09:26] hmmm better talk to some insurance people [09:26] not a fan of getting in trouble [09:27] yea, specially if you take down an airliner [09:27] i'm actually not worried about aircraft [09:27] it wouldn't be for that [09:27] i think thats probably the worst thing that could come from a project like this, but the odds are so low, and the precations taken are so high [09:28] remember that they've launched so many balloons a day for weather stuff since about 1940 [09:28] yeah [09:28] and there has never been a recorded collision [09:28] the sky is a big volume [09:28] and the payload is damn small [09:28] but [09:28] its gonna hit the ground eventually [09:28] and the UK is pretty dense [09:28] definitely, it wouldnt happen, but i just mean its the worst thats physically possible.. [09:29] yeah [09:29] but yea, with the uav i have actually been a bit worried about hitting something important [09:29] this all started cause i've been discussing with phatmonkey his uav [09:29] and if its even allowed here... [09:29] a foam box is one thing, something aerodynamic and heavy is another [09:30] yeah i know [09:30] i'd be less worried about NZ though [09:30] but nz has a LOT of very wide open mountain side [09:30] yeah [09:30] but few plans [09:30] and i plan on doing lots of lower level drops [09:30] considering how many airports there are around london [09:30] oh yea definitely [09:33] has phatmonkey built prevous uavs? or working on one? [09:33] hes planning one [09:33] though they aren't really true UAVs [09:33] just autonomous gliders [09:33] yea, mine will be too, i wouldn't dare try make the thing take off or land on its own [09:34] whats the need [09:34] and thats the thing does it count as a UAV (if it does the law is against it) [09:34] or is it a controlled descent from a balloon [09:35] so actual motored uav's are not legal there? [09:35] within limits [09:35] so if you adapted a rc plane it couldn't go out of sight [09:35] like normal rc planes [09:36] interesting, i should look into those laws here, I bet they don't even exist [09:36] prob not [09:36] have you spoken to the guy in NZ who has actually got a glider working? [09:36] the gpsboomerang people? [09:36] yeah [09:37] once briefly by email after he was on the news [09:37] oh right [09:37] pretty cool little plane he's made, he said he's done about 200 drops and only lost a couple of planes, and spent about $70k doing it [09:37] last year he was on this channel [09:37] yeah [09:37] he hasn't actually pushed that high yet [09:38] but i looks good [09:38] and if he can do it so can you! [09:38] trying to make a business out of it, I'm not too sure how successful its been though [09:38] legal speaking that is [09:38] hehe yea exactly [09:38] he's in a better place to do it than me though, christchruch is quite a bit flatter [09:39] I was playing with the idea for a bit, about making something that i would make sure dropped in the ocean, and made its way back to a beach on its own, but i think the distances involved would require too much power [09:42] hehe [09:42] i'd stick to land! [09:42] hehe [09:43] well it would solve so many other problems, landing...directional nav would only need to be 2d...sharks would be a bitch though [09:43] hehe [09:51] you know the aerocomms [09:51] do they reestablish contact when back in range? [09:51] I'm not too sure, i imagine they'll work the same way these maxstreams work, so it will depend on how you're linking them, but yea i think the actual serial connection is simply open if there is signal [09:52] i have to restart pppd if i lose signal, but that happens very quickly...the serial its self either works if theres signal, or doesn't if there isn't signal [09:52] so like good old dodgey dialup [09:53] hehe yea, without the dialing [09:53] cool [09:53] well i've got a week and a half to experiment [09:55] sweet [09:55] are they 3.3v ttl or rs232? [09:57] ttl [09:59] sweet nice and easy then [10:00] brb [10:00] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [10:05] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [10:13] grrr [10:14] ? [10:14] my gumstix filesystem just corrupted [10:14] add_node: malloc failed [10:14] add_node failed! [10:14] load: Failed to scan JFFSv2 file structure [10:14] ### JFFS2 LOAD ERROR<0> for boot/uImage! [10:15] hah did you see my most recent mailing list post? it was about the same issue [10:15] nope [10:15] i never got it back [10:16] i dont think sourceforge has processed it yet [10:16] but i was getting the same thing [10:16] but only when i shut the gumstix down uncleanly, while writing to the disk a lot [10:16] thats what i was doing [10:16] yea :P [10:16] i was cat to a file i think from the gps [10:16] if you type 'boot' at the prompt [10:16] you can still boot the gumstix [10:17] but i couldnt figur eout how to fix the booting problem, other than reflashing [10:17] ooo [10:17] so now i write all my logs to compact flash or mmc [10:17] instead of the gumstix [10:17] which is a pain, cause it knocks about an hour off the battery life [10:17] but its better than dead file systems [10:17] i'll reflash [10:17] might update the buildroot [10:18] i never got a reply to my email, it will probably come through next week, lol [10:18] damn sourceforge [10:19] hehe [10:19] hmmm i don't have mmc [10:19] are you using gpsd with your gpstix? [10:19] yup [10:20] and then how do you log? [10:21] with a sh script and nc [10:22] oh right [10:22] http://defy.net/gpsd_while.sh.txt [10:22] then just ./gpsd_while.sh | nc localhost 2947 >> somelogfile.txt & [10:23] so i get an O gpsd line every second, and the nmea [10:23] interesting [10:23] you deal with raw nmea then [10:24] i can do yeah [10:24] hmmm [10:24] its weird [10:25] i have a little program which gets P, A and D off gpsd [10:25] and that was fine for normal gps [10:25] gpsd is weird in the way it returns responses, i guess it only returns a the last value it recieves [10:25] but it seems to have issues with this module [10:25] and this gps only gives an altitude once every second, so quite often i get empty altitude readings, unless i read the nmea stream [10:25] i think the refresh rate is to quick [10:25] excactly [10:25] just what i was going to say [10:25] hehe [10:25] i took me a while to figure out why the altitude reading was off so often [10:25] so if i miss time the A command i get a ? [10:26] yeah [10:26] so i thought i'd grab all the stream [10:26] but it takes up to much space [10:26] one in every 5 of my O lines would have the actual altitude [10:26] i only have about 11mg [10:26] I was thinking of writing a daemon [10:26] that watched the nmea stream [10:26] and just picked out the info and logged in [10:26] i'd be very interested in that [10:26] but freakin microperl is so limited, i cant pipe programs into a file handler for some reason [10:27] oh [10:27] so that leaves me with C, which I haven't written anything in in years [10:27] i'd do C++ [10:27] well i might try something on the weekend [10:27] I'm just so lazy, i like small programs like that to be less than 15 lines, which it could easily be in perl [10:27] basically we need a NMEA parser [10:27] yeah exactly [10:28] that doesn't log A=? but A=xx [10:28] hmmm shouldn't be difficult [10:28] i sometimes think gpsd is over complicated [10:29] hehe [10:30] could always patch gpsd as well, to use the last valid value if a ? on A is received, but a parser makes more sense [10:30] i'm sure it could be done in sh [10:30] but i dont know it well enough [10:37] do you compile on a host machine or on the gumstix? [10:59] on my ppc [11:00] right i better be off [11:00] have to start revision for my final exam [11:00] then i'll be free! [11:01] cya defy [11:01] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [13:25] ehj20 (i=ed@ehjones.plus.com) joined #highaltitude. [14:48] macfreak4 (n=macfreak@24-107-201-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #highaltitude. [15:09] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-247-203.47-151.net24.it) left irc: "*** E' solo l'urto con un iceberg, che vuoi che sia, questa è una nave inaffondabile. *** 75$/barile" [15:15] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-247-203.47-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude. [15:19] macfreak4 (n=macfreak@24-107-201-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection [16:15] jcoxon (i=keefejoh@seraph.techwareit.com) joined #highaltitude. [16:16] hey all [16:22] hi [16:22] Are you still on for a May week launch? [16:26] yup [16:27] the launch window should open on the friday before may week [16:27] if all is ready we launch when the weather is good [16:29] Excellent. Any predictions on what the wind direction will be? [16:32] difficult to predict [16:32] looking at some of the models it seems that a high pressure might be approaching [16:33] if we can catch the northern part of that as high pressure systems always turn anti-clockwise we'll get a perfect easterly wind [16:33] but the jet stream is a different matter [16:35] slightly worried about if the nova 1 payload will be ready [16:39] http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/understanding/jetstreams_uk.shtml [16:40] seems to suggest the jetstream will be westerly/northwesterly perhaps? I don't know much about these things [16:40] yeah [16:40] it usually is [16:41] http://www.wunderground.com/global/Region/i_UK/2xJetStream.html [16:43] ignore what i said about anticlockwise [16:44] its the other way round [16:44] so we want to get the southern part of a high pressure zone [16:44] actually the middle of one would be best :-D no wind [16:55] What weight balloon will you be using? 200g as in Pegasus I? [16:56] :-) [16:56] yeah [16:56] i have a 500g but i've been persuaded to use a 200g [16:57] really just want a sucessful flight - will be testing a new system [16:57] hehe, sounds good to me! [16:57] can't really afford to lose it [16:57] ehj20: do sign up at www.ukhas.org.uk [16:59] Thanks, I will. Yor [16:59] sorry - Your project has inspired me [17:00] cool [17:00] so whats the plan?! [17:00] I see the ascent of P1 was pretty much constant, I perhaps thought it might accelerate as it got higher and the balloon increased in volume. [17:00] but i guess the thinner air at higher altitudes offsets that. [17:01] yeah, the force remains the same and so does gravity [17:01] and the air density changes as the balloon expands [17:03] I guess it's obvious when I think about it. A balloon under water offers more bouyancy as it ascends - the difference being the water remains at the same density [17:04] Hmmm, a plan. Perhaps I should have one of those ;-) [17:04] First I'll see if I can interface a gps, a phone and a gumstix in a similar way that you have. [17:04] then go from there [17:05] :-D [17:05] where would you be launching from out of interest? [17:05] north yorkshire [17:05] Unfortunately the dales have significantly worse gsm coverage than cambridgeshire... [17:06] yeah [17:06] but a northerly jet stream would give a fair distance before the sea [17:09] good point, and gsm coverage would be much better further south. [17:10] yeah [17:10] though i haven't said on my website I'm going to also be using radio modems on peg III [17:11] i read form a similar project in the US (I forget the name) that the fragmentsof the burst balloon interfered with the parachute, resulting in a faster than optimal descent.... [17:11] should give me a 15km (perhaps more) live feed [17:11] yeah [17:11] its a problem [17:11] i'm going to be doing some drop tests next week once my exams are over to see if there is a problem [17:11] a cutoff would be good, but would limit the maximum altitude obviously. [17:12] radio modem sounds cool [17:14] well we've been thinking of allowing hte balloon to burst and then cutting down [17:14] but not sure how happy people would be with the remains of hte balloon falling out of the sky [17:19] Just fragments of the balloon probably wouldn't be a problem. I would imagine the cutdown mechanism would have to stay attached to the payload. [17:20] but when it bursts it leaves the nozzle bit of the balloon [17:20] which is made of thicker totex [17:20] the cutdown device could easily be below the parachute [17:21] ah, fair enough. But any cutdown mechanism would have the same problem, although a secondary parachute for the balloon remains could be used. [17:21] yeah [17:21] s/balloon remains/remians of the balloon/ [17:22] will have to see [17:24] where will you do your drop tests from? The top of the UL might be good :-] [17:24] hehe [17:24] not sure they'll let me [17:24] not to sure [17:25] hehe, I can't see it myself... [17:26] i guess out from where i live [17:26] though i think i might look a little strange [17:28] you could attach something suitably alcoholic looking as ballast (like a bottle of champagne) and i'm sure no one will bat an eyelid. [17:28] hehe [17:28] there are a load of cranes around right now :-p [17:33] a few years ago there was a crane parked in king's parade that was being used to lift pre-fabricated rooms to make an extra floor on a building in kings (or perhaps in Catz, not too sure). That would have been perfect, if a little bit over-kill... [17:33] http://www.kempley.net/crane/ [17:36] icez (n=icez@ip68-3-56-121.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #highaltitude. [17:37] $46.66 shipping from gumstix :-( [17:38] yeah [17:39] there are other options [17:39] such as a slug [17:39] or Ed_Moore showed me this [17:39] one sec i'll find the link [17:39] http://www.crownhill.co.uk/product.php?prod=1456 [17:40] looks nice [17:40] right i've got to go [17:40] will chat soon [17:41] bye! [17:45] jcoxon (i=keefejoh@seraph.techwareit.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)" [18:47] ehj20 (i=ed@ehjones.plus.com) left irc: "Easy as 3.14159265358979323846..." [18:59] ehj20 (i=ed@ehjones.plus.com) joined #highaltitude. [19:33] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-247-203.47-151.net24.it) left irc: "*** E' solo l'urto con un iceberg, che vuoi che sia, questa è una nave inaffondabile. *** 75$/barile" [19:50] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-247-203.47-151.net24.it) joined #highaltitude. [21:25] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. [21:38] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) left #highaltitude ("Leaving"). [21:43] phatmonkey (n=phatmonk@65.98.2.81.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude. [22:07] ehj20 (i=ed@ehjones.plus.com) left irc: "IceChat - what the cool people use" [22:17] phatmonkey (n=phatmonk@65.98.2.81.in-addr.arpa) left irc: "Ex-Chat" [22:46] defy (n=defy@60-234-234-98.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [22:56] malgar (n=malgar@adsl-ull-247-203.47-151.net24.it) left irc: "*** E' solo l'urto con un iceberg, che vuoi che sia, questa è una nave inaffondabile. *** 75$/barile" [23:38] jcoxon (n=jcoxon@jac208.caths.cam.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude. 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